[Oliver Brendan Hayve]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Why would God torture, people forever? Is that rational?
The bible does not teach that. It is religions that teach that.
He will get rid of people that are against him, but he does not torture them.
And the goal is that God want's perfect people, to fill the earth just like he said , with Adam and Eve. Nothing has changed. It is going to happen and just like he said with Adam and Eve. So at the end of God's rest day Jesus will hand the earth and mankind back to God in the condition he said it would be. And in the same time frame. ( that is what the 1,000 years are for.) At the end of that , the bible says new scrolls will be opened, so a whole new purpose will be told to man. And where is the limit in that?

Man was created for the earth, this is not just a testing ground, because Satan was in the heavens and failed, so did some angels.

This is rational, this is what we see, and this has always been the purpose for man. It's just that most don't want it. Just like in Noah's time, 8 people out of about 1 million survived.

Any way , if any one wants a specific question answered, I will try to do that, but , if not , I'll slip away.

The Landover Baptists have repeatedly quoted Bible verses to you that teach that God will torture people forever. Your response has pretty much been, "La la la, I can't hear you." You just quote other Bible verses that say something different.

So you've managed to prove that the Bible contradicts itself and that, at least according to some parts of the Bible, your God behaves in ways that you find to be irrational. That's hardly a stirring defense of your faith.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

You've explained nothing. That verse does not say that God made the light more visible by clearing the atmosphere. It says that He made the lights.

Let's continue with your analogy of the robot. If on the fourth day you made a pre-existing robot jump up and down, would you say, "And on the fourth day I made the robot"? I'm sure we can agree that that would be inexcusably sloppy writing.

What's more, the next verse says that He set them in the firmament of the heaven. Why would He have had to do that if they'd been there all along?

Genesis 1:3 (English Standard Version)

3And God said,(A) "Let there be light," and there was light.

Genesis 1:3 (King James Version)

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


Genesis 1:3 (New American Standard Bible)

3Then (A)God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.


Genesis 1:14 (New American Standard Bible)

14Then God said, "Let there be (A)lights in the (expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for ©signs and for (D)seasons and for days and years;

Genesis 1:14 (King James Version)

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:


In all these scriptures there is no mention of creating them, at this time. He said let there be light in the expanse.

If you go to a show say, and it is dark. And you hear the Master of ceremonies say let there be light, and lights come on , do you think he just created the lamps and light bulbs. No.
Or you could go to the show and the master of ceremonies pulls back the curtain and says let there be light, ( the light has always been on. But now you can see it. )
God did not mess up when writing the Bible. Could it be that sometimes religions get the understanding wrong.
This is why the scientists, laugh at religions, because their interpretations of the scriptures is not rational, not real.
Nowhere in those verses does it say God just created the sun or moon. He just said let there be light.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

The Landover Baptists have repeatedly quoted Bible verses to you that teach that God will torture people forever. Your response has pretty much been, "La la la, I can't hear you." You just quote other Bible verses that say something different.

So you've managed to prove that the Bible contradicts itself and that, at least according to some parts of the Bible, your God behaves in ways that you find to be irrational. That's hardly a stirring defense of your faith.

There are many Christian beliefs, all with different understandings. Does that mean the bible is wrong, or is it different ones having different understandings?
After all ,we are all using the same book.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

In all these scriptures there is no mention of creating them, at this time. He said let there be light in the expanse.

If you go to a show say, and it is dark. And you hear the Master of ceremonies say let there be light, and lights come on , do you think he just created the lamps and light bulbs. No.
Or you could go to the show and the master of ceremonies pulls back the curtain and says let there be light, ( the light has always been on. But now you can see it. )

That is cherry-picking at its most extreme. I've already shown you the verses that say that God made the lights and set them in the firmament of the heaven and that He did so on the fourth day. You keep saying that the Bible interprets itself, so let it.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

There are many Christian beliefs, all with different understandings. Does that mean the bible is wrong, or is it different ones having different understandings?
After all ,we are all using the same book.

There is the TRUE Christian(tm) way of simply reading The Bible as written, and the various Hell bond lies of Satan only a Homosexual (as in Atheist, Union Worker Illegal Alien or Democrat) would listen to.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

There are many Christian beliefs, all with different understandings. Does that mean the bible is wrong, or is it different ones having different understandings?
After all ,we are all using the same book.

Here are the possibilities:

1. One church has it right, and the rest are wrong.
2. God is too incompetent to get His point across.
3. God doesn't care what we believe.
4. The Bible isn't God's word to begin with.
5. There is no God.

If you believe any of 2-5, then in what sense are you a Christian?

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Why would God torture, people forever? Is that rational?

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

The bible does not teach that.

Oh really?

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ezekiel 18:4 (King James Version)

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

What this is talking about , is that man can kill the body, and you die, that means the soul also, because are a soul. You don't have a a soul as something extra. But they can't take your opportunity of life. If God remembers you there is the resurrection. So you still can live in the future.


The original-language terms (Heb., ne′phesh [ׁש]; Gr., psy‧khe′ [ψυχή]) as used in the Scriptures show “soul” to be a person, an animal, or the life that a person or an animal enjoys.
Th soul means the life you have.

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I have come across people that have lists of supposed problems with the bible and have answered all so far. My confidence level is very high when it comes to things like this. These come from people who have not done their homework, and spread them around the internet.

So, is the Quran perfect?

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Ezekiel 18:4 (King James Version)

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

What this is talking about , is that man can kill the body, and you die, that means the soul also, because are a soul. You don't have a a soul as something extra. But they can't take your opportunity of life. If God remembers you there is the resurrection. So you still can live in the future.


The original-language terms (Heb., ne′phesh [ׁש]; Gr., psy‧khe′ [ψυχή]) as used in the Scriptures show “soul” to be a person, an animal, or the life that a person or an animal enjoys.
Th soul means the life you have.

This is contradicted by the Bible in Matt. 25:46 which says “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Also, degrees of punishment will be given on the Day of Judgment (Rev. 20:11-15). If all, or only the wicked are annihilated, then degrees of punishment would be pointless.

"“And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name," (Rev. 14:11).


"And a second time they said, "Hallelujah! Her smoke rises up forever and ever" (Rev. 19:3).


"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).


You can see that "forever and ever" is a phrase used of the glory of God that will never cease (1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 5:13). The same phrase is used to speak of the torment of people that will never cease (Rev. 19:3; 20:10; ).



There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. (Luke 13:28)

However, there are scriptures that strongly suggest man's continued self-awareness and continued existence after death (Luke 16:19-31; 2 Cor. 5:1-10; Phil. 1:21-23).

Luke 16:19-31

“Now there was a certain rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, gaily living in splendor every day. 20 “And a certain poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 “Now it came about that the poor man died and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 “And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 “And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue; for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25 “But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 ‘And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, in order that those who wish to come over from here to you may not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ 27 “And he said, ‘Then I beg you, Father, that you send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—that he may warn them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 “But he said, ‘No, Father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31 “But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.’"


2 Cor. 5:8

"we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

This is contradicted by the Bible in Matt. 25:46 which says “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Eternal punishment is death forever no chance of a resurrection. It is not torture somewhere.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Also, degrees of punishment will be given on the Day of Judgment (Rev. 20:11-15). If all, or only the wicked are annihilated, then degrees of punishment would be pointless.

Revelation 20:11-15 (King James Version)

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
In verse 12 and 13 says the dead were judged according to their works. We know that the bible says there is no works in death or thinking or anything. So these dead ones were judged, according to the works they did when they were alive.
In 14 death and hell were cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death ( there is not a real lake of fire) so it just means death will be no more. It will be done away with.
The bible tells you here the lake of fire means the second death.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).


You can see that "forever and ever" is a phrase used of the glory of God that will never cease (1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 5:13). The same phrase is used to speak of the torment of people that will never cease (Rev. 19:3; 20:10; ).

Here again the devil is thrown into the lake of fire, ( which means the second death)this means death that has no resurrection. So the devils torment is that he will be destroyed forever, he will never get a another chance of life.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Here again the devil is thrown into the lake of fire, ( which means the second death)this means death that has no resurrection. So the devils torment is that he will be destroyed forever, he will never get a another chance of life.

How is that justice friend? That means some atheist like Adolph Hitler or Joesph Stalin or Jimmy Carter can just goes their lives, torturing people and then just dies, that's it, like they expected. It's not like an Atheist is expecting anything but oblivion when they die.

No friend, God is a Loving God so above all there must be eternal damnation.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. (Luke 13:28)

However, there are scriptures that strongly suggest man's continued self-awareness and continued existence after death (Luke 16:19-31; 2 Cor. 5:1-10; Phil. 1:21-23).

Luke 13:23-28 (King James Version)

23Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,

24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

26Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

28There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.


This a illustration that is being used here to tell ones that believe in Jesus but do not do much about it. The verses are saying many will want to get into the gate but only a few will. The ones that don't are surprised because ( Jesus is the master of the house) Jesus shuts the doors on them. And leaves them out side the gate. So even though these one were around Jesus, they did nothing themselves. So when outside the gates the bible says that is where their weeping and gnashing of teeth will be. Meaning they missed out of the opportunity, of life and are in an anguish over that.

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. (Luke 13:28)

This means also that these will 'see' realize, that Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, will be there, you will not. Even though they had the opportunity to be there.