[Shimei]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Thank you Levi.

[Levi Jones]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

The Greeks argued that if God can feel joy or sorrow or anger or grief, then it means that some human being has for that moment influenced God and is therefore greater than God. So they went on to argue that none may ever affect God. A God who suffered was to the Greeks a contradiction in terms.

There you go implying the Greeks were monotheistic again. The Greeks gods were often prone to jealousy and being irritable, completely unlike our sweet and loving God.

Just thought to add this, and oh, I came across the perfection I believe most here are referring to when speaking of True Christians. The word teleioi. There are actually two accounts of perfection that I came across in studies, the first I can't remember, but remember that something is perfect once it becomes aware of its purpose, and the second is like it. When we become mature we receive deeper teachings.

I wrote about this very subject in my sermon here. After having read this argument for the word perfect not actually meaning perfect, I did some more study on it.

Perhaps you don't think the New Testament word rendered as perfect actually means perfect.

Maybe you think it means mature? Then this section is for you. Perfect in the New Testament is τέλειος teleios. Some say this means mature. Some modern translations even render it as such in some parts of the Bible. But then when it comes to these verses, teleios suddenly means perfect again.

Romans 12:2.
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God.

Does that mean God's will is "mature?" Of course not. It's the same Greek word teleios.

See Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Again, it's the same Greek word telios. I seriously doubt you would call Jesus a mature tabernacle, would you?
Could it be that the translators of the newer translations are pressured into accepting Calvinist doctrine on total depravity?
I'll let you be the judge.

1 Corinthians 2:10-16 informs us that the only true knowledge we can obtain is through the Spirit of God. Pneuma is the word for spirit

It also means wind, rendering John 3 a little more tricky to understand.

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the (wind) Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit (wind) is spirit (wind).
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind (spirit) bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit (wind).

Sometimes I wonder if they could have possibly gotten it.... Nah, I'm sure it means exactly as the translators meant it to.

and the person who is pneumatikos is someone who is sensitive to the Spirit and whose life is guided by the Spirit. We are to make ourselves receptive to the Spirit of God so when He speaks we hear. Without being receptive to the Spirit the truth can neither be spoken nor heard rightly.

Fun fact. Pneumatikos is only used twice in the New Testament. Once in 1 Cor 2 and another time in Rev 11.

[Levi Jones]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

The very idea of incarnation, of God becoming a man, was revolting to the Greek mind.

But not a swan or a bull.. That was okay? What about Heracles death? What about the imprisonment of all the titans?

The Greeks were certainly not monotheists. This calling the Greek gods God is misleading to say the least.

[Shimei]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

You mean like,

But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1 Corinthians 1:23-24

Why didn't you just quote God's Holy Word instead of infiltrating this discussion with your own confusing babble?

That's not very considerate.

Yes Mary. I see Paul speaking simplicity. One could argue that in Athens when Paul preached to the philosophers on Mar's Hill, Paul had limited success while speaking in their same language -- Acts 17:32. Paul came to the Corinthians a little more experienced and more wiser.

[Shimei]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Whoa, whoa, WHOA...did you just call Jesus Christ ugly?

No Sir. Jesus is morally beautiful.

I am fascinated at this moment with Paul. And I am curious as to why Paul did not mention the Greeks when he said, 1 Corinthians 9:20.

The incredible thing is our ability to think. This came to mind while reading these Scriptures. Thinking is what separates the prey from the predator. The predator can think like the prey and be quite calculating and agile in their process of thinking. This is only my musing of course, and thanks for an ear. I become quite excited and enjoy sharing Scripture, God's insights are incredible. Each and every time I reread something it seems as though there's something new!

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Lemme elaborate more. To people who think like Greeks, the incarnation was a total impossibility....

You mean like,

But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1 Corinthians 1:23-24

Why didn't you just quote God's Holy Word instead of infiltrating this discussion with your own confusing babble?

That's not very considerate.

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Lemme elaborate more. To people who think like Greeks, the incarnation was a total impossibility. It was just too incredible that one who had suffered as Jesus had suffered could possibly be the Son of God. Celsus wrote, “God is good and beautiful and happy and is in that which is most beautiful and best. If then “He descends to men” it involves change for him, and change from good to bad, from beautiful to ugly, from happiness to unhappiness, from what is best to what is worst. Who would choose such a change? For mortality it is only nature to alter and be changed; but for the immortal to abide the same forever. God would never accept such a change.” Plutarch, the great historian and philosopher, declared that it was an insult to God to involve him in human affairs. God, of necessity, was utterly detached. The very idea of incarnation, of God becoming a man, was revolting to the Greek mind.

Whoa, whoa, WHOA...did you just call Jesus Christ ugly?

[Shimei]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Lemme elaborate more. To people who think like Greeks, the incarnation was a total impossibility. It was just too incredible that one who had suffered as Jesus had suffered could possibly be the Son of God. Celsus wrote, “God is good and beautiful and happy and is in that which is most beautiful and best. If then “He descends to men” it involves change for him, and change from good to bad, from beautiful to ugly, from happiness to unhappiness, from what is best to what is worst. Who would choose such a change? For mortality it is only nature to alter and be changed; but for the immortal to abide the same forever. God would never accept such a change.” Plutarch, the great historian and philosopher, declared that it was an insult to God to involve him in human affairs. God, of necessity, was utterly detached. The very idea of incarnation, of God becoming a man, was revolting to the Greek mind.

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Can someone please explain what all this ^^^ means? I don't know if he is praising Jesus or not, so I don't know if I agree or not.

Thank you.

You got me. As soon as he said about the Word becoming Flesh "To any thinking person the incarnation is just an impossibility," I figured he was drunk.

I mean, I'm a thinking person, and it seems entirely possible to me.

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

First I am told to only rely on empirical knowledge, then I'm told to think. So I begin to think about my thinking and realize this is called introspection. But introspection does not fall under empirical knowledge. I'll stick with the facts from the Bible for now on.

But this thinking brings me to today and some digging. I came across this post by accident, but what was shared above actually helped quite a bit in study. 1 Corinthians is my current study and found the Greek thinking to be fascinating. Paul's opposition went something like this, Apatheia was the first characteristic of God. The Greeks argued that if God can feel joy or sorrow or anger or grief, then it means that some human being has for that moment influenced God and is therefore greater than God. So they went on to argue that none may ever affect God. A God who suffered was to the Greeks a contradiction in terms.

Now I see why both John and Paul were so eager to drive the point home that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. To any thinking person the incarnation is just an impossibility.

Just thought to add this, and oh, I came across the perfection I believe most here are referring to when speaking of True Christians. The word teleioi. There are actually two accounts of perfection that I came across in studies, the first I can't remember, but remember that something is perfect once it becomes aware of its purpose, and the second is like it. When we become mature we receive deeper teachings.

1 Corinthians 2:10-16 informs us that the only true knowledge we can obtain is through the Spirit of God. Pneuma is the word for spirit and the person who is pneumatikos is someone who is sensitive to the Spirit and whose life is guided by the Spirit. We are to make ourselves receptive to the Spirit of God so when He speaks we hear. Without being receptive to the Spirit the truth can neither be spoken nor heard rightly.

The Greeks were mostly trying to justify anal sex, when they said God has no feelings. By reference to scripture we can prove that He has a full spectrum of emotions, from anger to pity.

Deuteronomy 1:37 proves that He gets angry.

Judges 2:18 proves that He experiences pity.

Genesis 6:6 proves that He experiences regret.

Of course, the verses that prove God hates are far more numerous. Abhorrence/hatred appears to be God's favorite emotion, if the frequency of its occurrence in scripture is any indication.



Leviticus 20:23 - "And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them."

Leviticus 26:30 - "And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you."

Deuteronomy 32:19 - "And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters."

Psalm 5:5 - "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

Psalm 5:6 - "Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man."

Psalm 10:3 - "For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth."

Psalm 11:5 - "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth."

Psalm 53:5 - "There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them."

Psalm 73:20 - "As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image."

Psalm 78:59 - "When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:"

Psalm 106:40 - "Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance."

Proverbs 6:16-19 - "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Proverbs 22:14 - "The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein."

Lamentations 2:6 - "And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest."

Hosea 9:15 - "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters."

Zechariah 11:8 - "Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me."

Malachi 1:3 - "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

Romans 9:13 - "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."








Imagine how the Lord must have seethed with animosity as the Greeks committed their many sodomies.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Can someone please explain what all this ^^^ means? I don't know if he is praising Jesus or not, so I don't know if I agree or not.

Thank you.

[Shimei]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

God hates Rational Thinking!

Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

Today I would like to discuss a very real threat to any Faithful True Christian™. I speak, of course, about the demonic practice of “rational thinking.”

In these modern times, where evil people worship science, that spreads lies and blasphemies against God in our public school classrooms, there is an increasing pressure from the unsaved upon True Christians™ to embrace their religious practice of “Logic and Reason,” which is an euphemism, of course, for slandering God’s Holy Bible.

Why do I say this? Because, when anyone tries to applies rational thinking to the Bible, it suddenly doesn’t seem to make as much sense as it normally did, suggesting the Bible would be filled with contradictions and such. This, of course, already proves that rational thinking is a form of demonic possession, clouding the vision of the “freethinker” to the Truth™:


Paul also has a lot to say about this in the First Epistle to the Corinthians:

1 Corinthians 1:18-25:
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

To “them that perish” (atheists) the Wisdom of the Cross is foolishness (atheists always mock the Bible by claiming that it makes no sense). To us, however, it is the “power of God.”

God will destroy the wisdom of rational thinkers. The wisdom of the world is foolishness to God. And the foolishness of God is greater than the “wisdom of man” (which is science, the product of rational thinking).

1 Corinthians 2:6-8:
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

The Truth™ of the Bible is a mystery, which is why you don’t understand it if you approach it rationally. Get used to it.

1 Corinthians 2:14:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Again, the Bible seems foolish to people who do rational thinking. They are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 3:18-20:
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

Again, rational thinking is foolishness. Just don’t do it, okay?

It seems that Paul was really getting the hang of it while writing the first epistle to the Corinthians:

First I am told to only rely on empirical knowledge, then I'm told to think. So I begin to think about my thinking and realize this is called introspection. But introspection does not fall under empirical knowledge. I'll stick with the facts from the Bible for now on.

But this thinking brings me to today and some digging. I came across this post by accident, but what was shared above actually helped quite a bit in study. 1 Corinthians is my current study and found the Greek thinking to be fascinating. Paul's opposition went something like this, Apatheia was the first characteristic of God. The Greeks argued that if God can feel joy or sorrow or anger or grief, then it means that some human being has for that moment influenced God and is therefore greater than God. So they went on to argue that none may ever affect God. A God who suffered was to the Greeks a contradiction in terms.

Now I see why both John and Paul were so eager to drive the point home that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. To any thinking person the incarnation is just an impossibility.

Just thought to add this, and oh, I came across the perfection I believe most here are referring to when speaking of True Christians. The word teleioi. There are actually two accounts of perfection that I came across in studies, the first I can't remember, but remember that something is perfect once it becomes aware of its purpose, and the second is like it. When we become mature we receive deeper teachings.

1 Corinthians 2:10-16 informs us that the only true knowledge we can obtain is through the Spirit of God. Pneuma is the word for spirit and the person who is pneumatikos is someone who is sensitive to the Spirit and whose life is guided by the Spirit. We are to make ourselves receptive to the Spirit of God so when He speaks we hear. Without being receptive to the Spirit the truth can neither be spoken nor heard rightly.

[Perseus]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Are you actually comparing the Kim dynasty to GOD?

Kim= Unelected

God= Unelected

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Come on guys, take a break.
Don't you realize that giving up rational thinking, logic and your trust in 99% of the scientists from all over the world, just to stay faithful, means that something is wrong with your believes?

Take a look at the censorship at North-Korea, that's not correct right? How the people are forced to obey the leader without thinking for themselves.

Please consider for yourself why you're not allowed critical thinking, why would your god expect such a thing from you?

The communist chinks up in North Korea censor people because they are communists.

Christians censor people because God commands it.

There is a huge difference.

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Please consider for yourself why you're not allowed critical thinking, why would your god expect such a thing from you?

The scripture forbidding rational thinking has been well documented in this thread. How is thinking objectively and rationally any better than ejaculating into someone's digestive tract? Or murdering your neighbor? Or not murdering an Amalekite? All of them are forbidden by the Good Book, and therefore equally villainous.

You ask why, as though you are trying to seduce us with reason, into questioning God. We cannot question God. It is a sin to cleave unto our own understanding, as has been stated, and attributed to God's word. We must obey God, and God commands us to believe in Him. Read John 3:16-18.

Since you are so obsessed with reason, I will give you the reasons for this, which are all too obvious anyway: if we question True Christianity(tm), that is the first step on the slippery slope to seeing that there is no evidence for it. Then, you burn in Hell for all eternity. So how stupid is that? The rules are so easy to follow, and the reward is infinite and eternal. Why not just do the right thing and quit trying to be so smart all the time?