[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

God created only one pair of each life form, according to you. He set them up to keep making more, on their own. And these change. Like you admitted above. They adapt and change in order to survive. That's the theory of evolution.

That is adaptation, and natural section.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

So you believe in a literal flood?

The Flood has me puzzled. The Torah sets the event around 2300BC (i.e. after the original Gilgamesh account on which it was based was actually written). The devastation left only 8 people on Earth. These were Noah, his wife, 3 sons and their wives. However historical records before and after that date indicate flourishing civilisations in China, India and Egypt.

Since the Bible points to the year 2370*B.C.E. as the date of the global Flood, There are problems in Egyptian chronology.e doubtless responsible for the figures advanced by modern historians who would run Egyptian history all the way back to the year 3000*B.C.E.


The problem with secular histories do not qualify as the standard of accuracy by which to judge Bible chronology is this statement by archaeological writer C.*W. Ceram, commenting on the modern science of historical dating: “Anyone approaching the study of ancient history for the first time must be impressed by the positive way modern historians date events which took place thousands of years ago. In the course of further study this wonder will, if anything, increase. For as we examine the sources of ancient history we see how scanty, inaccurate, or downright false, the records were even at the time they were first written. And poor as they originally were, they are poorer still as they have come down to us: half destroyed by the tooth of time or by the carelessness and rough usage of men.” He further describes the framework of chronological history as “a purely hypothetical structure, and one which threatens to come apart at every joint.”—The Secret of the Hittites, 1956, pp. 133, 134.


The Bible is a historical book, preeminently so among ancient writings. The histories of the ancient Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Medes, Persians, and others are, in the main, fragmentary; their earlier periods are either obscure or, as presented by them, obviously mythical. Thus, the ancient document known as The Sumerian King List begins: “When kingship was lowered from heaven, kingship was (first) in Eridu. (In) Eridu, A-lulim (became) king and ruled 28,800 years. Alalgar ruled 36,000 years. Two kings (thus) ruled it for 64,800 years.*.*.*. (In) Bad-tibira, En-men-lu-Anna ruled 43,200 years; En-men-gal-Anna ruled 28,800 years; the god Dumu-zi, a shepherd, ruled 36,000 years. Three kings (thus) ruled it for 108,000 years.”—Ancient Near Eastern Texts, edited by J.*B. Pritchard, 1974, p. 265

W.*G. Waddell, said the quotations of Manetho’s writings are fragmentary and often distorted and hence “it is extremely difficult to reach certainty in regard to what is authentic Manetho and what is spurious or corrupt.” After showing that Manetho’s source material included some unhistorical traditions and legends that “introduced kings as their heroes, without regard to chronological order,” he says: “There were many errors in Manetho’s work from the very beginning: all are not due to the perversions of scribes and revisers. Many of the lengths of reigns have been found impossible: in some cases the names and the sequence of kings as given by Manetho have proved untenable in the light of monumental evidence.”—Manetho, introduction, pp. vii, xvii, xx, xxi, xxv

It is very hard to trust , the dating of the materials in earlier civilisation. because of using different methods of dating. And is very fragmented, and inaccurate.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

To fit all the creatures of the world in their boat; 2.8 species million at present estimate, times 2 (for he took 2 of each) would have needed room for an estimated 5.6 million animals. This vessel would need to divide the carnivores form the vegetarians, the predators from the prey. No owl could eat a mouse, no spider a fly, no lion a lamb.

Talking to zoologists I am informed it takes an average of 0.01588 acres to house and 0.0053 tonnes of food per week to feed per animal averaging from the largest to the smallest. Putting the animals in a double deck, and the people on a third deck, allowing room for 170,000 tonnes of food (40 days supply) and 33,000 people to feed and clean out the quarters would require a vessel 3 kilometres wide by 28 kilometres long and 3 storeys high (the size of a small city) made of timber, (ok 2 storeys high if you leave out the 33,000 farmhands). And it would need to float. This is an impossible engineering feat. How did Noah & his family manage it?

The Encyclopedia Americana indicate that there are upwards of 1,300,000 species of animals. (1977, Vol. 1, pp. 859-873) However, over 60 percent of these are insects. Breaking these figures down further, of the 24,000 amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals, 10,000 are birds, 9,000 are reptiles and amphibians, many of which could have survived outside the ark, and only 5,000 are mammals, including whales and porpoises, which would have also remained outside the ark. Other researchers estimate that there are only about 290 species of land mammals larger than sheep and about 1,360 smaller than rats. (The Deluge Story in Stone, by B.*C. Nelson, 1949, p. 156; The Flood in the Light of the Bible, Geology, and Archaeology, by A.*M. Rehwinkel, 1957, p.*69) So, even if estimates are based on these expanded figures, the ark could easily have accommodated a pair of all these animals.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Now you're changing what the Bible says in order to make things more convenient to you. The Bible says He MADE them on the 4th day. Not made them visible.

Genesis 1: 16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

And .*.*. proceeded to make.” Heb., wai‧ya′ʽas (from ʽa‧sah′). Different from “create” (ba‧raʼ′) found in vss 1, 21, 27; 2:3. Progressive action indicated by the imperfect state.

So what this scripture is actually saying, he made the sun and moon and stars , to be seen , he didn't create them at that time.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

And why are you so concerned about looking in the Bible? When was the last time you read the Enuma Elis?

Revelation 17:1-5 (King James Version)

Revelation 17

1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.


No thanks I'm not interested in that. That is the cause of the world we see now. Don't you think we've seen enough of that?

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Are you saying they would not be human anymore. Where are the almost humans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_%28genus%29#Species

There's just a few of them.

what are humans turning into so that they are no longer human?

If I was psychic, I could tell you.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_%28genus%29#Species

There's just a few of them.

I mean the almost humans, that are very close like us but not quite . You know the little step that would that would separates us from them. They should be around also. Where are they?

If I was psychic, I could tell you.

Maybe the scientists should get one of those also.

[Pastor William Nathaniel Sampson]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I mean the almost humans, that are very close like us but not quite . You know the little step that would that would separates us from them. They should be around also. Where are they?



Maybe the scientists should get one of those also.

I don't get it. You don't believe in the evilution, but at the same time, you don't believe in the six day creation.

What do you think was happening for all those billions of years? Was God creating new things and playing with His toy dinosaurs in His sandlot until He got bored with that and eventually decided to create humans?

It pretty much has to be one or the other. The Bible is true and literal or it isn't.

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I mean the almost humans, that are very close like us but not quite . You know the little step that would that would separates us from them. They should be around also. Where are they?

Actually, neanderthals fit you description just fine. There is no missing link. And why should they still be around?

Maybe the scientists should get one of those also.

And hey, maybe God should send down some prophets nowadays too. You know, let people know when a natural disaster is coming or something, like he did in the Bible. Try to save some lives. But I guess your god just doesn't care about things like that.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I don't get it. You don't believe in the evilution, but at the same time, you don't believe in the six day creation.

What do you think was happening for all those billions of years? Was God creating new things and playing with His toy dinosaurs in His sandlot until He got bored with that and eventually decided to create humans?

It pretty much has to be one or the other. The Bible is true and literal or it isn't.

The bible is both literal and not literal.
For example,
at Luke 16:19-31,
Luke 16:19-31 (King James Version)

19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.



So is this literal or merely an illustration of something else? The Jerusalem Bible, in a footnote, acknowledges that it is a “parable in story form without reference to any historical personage.” If taken literally, it would mean that those enjoying divine favor could all fit at the bosom of one man, Abraham; that the water on one’s fingertip would not be evaporated by the fire of Hades; that a mere drop of water would bring relief to one suffering there. Does that sound reasonable to you? If it were literal, it would conflict with other parts of the Bible. If the Bible were thus contradictory, would a lover of truth use it as a basis for his faith? But the Bible does not contradict itself.
What does the parable mean? The “rich man” represented the Pharisees. (See verse 14.) The beggar Lazarus represented the common Jewish people who were despised by the Pharisees but who repented and became followers of Jesus. (See Luke 18:11; John 7:49; Matthew 21:31,*32.) Their deaths were also symbolic, representing a change in circumstances. Thus, the formerly despised ones came into a position of divine favor, and the formerly seemingly favored ones were rejected by God, while being tormented by the judgment messages delivered by the ones whom they had despised.—Acts 5:33; 7:54

So these verses are not literal.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Actually, neanderthals fit you description just fine. There is no missing link. And why should they still be around?



And hey, maybe God should send down some prophets nowadays too. You know, let people know when a natural disaster is coming or something, like he did in the Bible. Try to save some lives. But I guess your god just doesn't care about things like that.

NEANDERTHAL MAN is also one of the better-known parts of the so-called evolutionary chain. When the first skull portion was found one scientist called it the skullcap of an idiot. Gradually interpretations changed as more bones were discovered. From early reconstructions that showed Neanderthals to be stooped and apelike, with long arms dangling down in front, we now have books that say that “Neanderthal probably did not look very different from some people of today.” One encyclopedia now says that they were “completely human, fully erect.” What a change! Comparing the illustrations in various books will show the adjustments in the claimed appearance of Neanderthal man. And rather than his being an idiot, it is now admitted that Neanderthal man had a larger brain than most modern men!
One reason why some scientists thought of Neanderthal as squat and bent is most interesting. An early skeleton found had bowed legs and a bent form. Of course, since they were looking for apelike creatures to fit their theory, how easy it was to make a mistake! Later, upon further examination, it was shown that the skeleton was deformed due to arthritis!

As for God sending sending prophets, well he already told us about natural disasters and be looking for them.

Matthew 24:6-9 (Amplified Bible)

6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened or troubled, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.

7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in place after place;

8All this is but the beginning [the early pains] of the [a]birth pangs [of the [b]intolerable anguish].

This scriptures tells that when we see these things happening, we know we are at the beginning of the time, that the bible calls the 'time of the end'

So we are told and warned about, but most people do not listen.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

The bible is both literal and not literal.

I'm sorry friend, but if you try to deny that creation did not take 6 24-hour days, and that the world in 6,000 years old, then you are a heretic. Don't DARE call yourself a Christian!

How old is the earth according to the Bible?


Could God Really Have Created Everything in Six Days?

The Six Days of Creation

Did Creation take place in 6 literal days?

Did Creation Take Place in 7 Literal Days?

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I'm sorry friend, but if you try to deny that creation did not take 6 24-hour days, and that the world in 6,000 years old, then you are a heretic. Don't DARE call yourself a Christian!

How old is the earth according to the Bible?


Could God Really Have Created Everything in Six Days?

The Six Days of Creation

Did Creation take place in 6 literal days?

Did Creation Take Place in 7 Literal Days?

I wonder if you read my posts on what a day in the bible?

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

NEANDERTHAL MAN is also one of the better-known parts of the so-called evolutionary chain. When the first skull portion was found one scientist called it the skullcap of an idiot. Gradually interpretations changed as more bones were discovered. From early reconstructions that showed Neanderthals to be stooped and apelike, with long arms dangling down in front, we now have books that say that “Neanderthal probably did not look very different from some people of today.” One encyclopedia now says that they were “completely human, fully erect.” What a change! Comparing the illustrations in various books will show the adjustments in the claimed appearance of Neanderthal man. And rather than his being an idiot, it is now admitted that Neanderthal man had a larger brain than most modern men!
One reason why some scientists thought of Neanderthal as squat and bent is most interesting. An early skeleton found had bowed legs and a bent form. Of course, since they were looking for apelike creatures to fit their theory, how easy it was to make a mistake! Later, upon further examination, it was shown that the skeleton was deformed due to arthritis!

Yes, that was one specimen, known as "La Chapelle-aux-Saints 1", and yes, he did appear to suffer from arthritis. But it and other neaderthal bones clearly are not the same modern humans.

As for God sending sending prophets, well he already told us about natural disasters and be looking for them.

Yes, that must have been SO useful to the people in the Gujarat earthquake, the Europe heatwaves, the Iran earthquake, Hurricane Jeanne, the Asian tsunami, Hurricane Katrina, Hurricane Stan, the Pakistan earthquake, the Burma cyclone, the China earthquake, the Swine flu epidemic, the Haiti earthquake, the Chile earthquake, the Pakistan floods, the Yushu earthquake, the Queensland floods, the Christchurch earthquake, the Tohoku earthquake and tsunami, and the Burma earthquake.

After all, the Bible says natural disasters will someday happen somewhere. So it's their own fault, right? God is punishing these people?

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

So Neanderthal is just a needlessly complex word for Mexican?