Pastor Bathfire, please teach me.

[Sexual deviant]

Well here it is,
i have most humbly been allowed to create this thread by
pastor of diversity and tolerance,
Ezekiel Bathfire,
where he has most graciously indulged me asking him some questions
referancing to the holy book, King James 1611 version of the bible
and his own words only.

I have ofcorse read my rights concerning posting in this forum
and understand that they are practicaly none
so ofcorse i will be as humble and civil as is possibly capable
of me.

These questions are not aimed at insulting, flaming, trolling,
anyones opinions or beliefs, but simply for my own personal
enlightenment and chance of a possible salvation.
------------------------------------------------------------

I would like to start with the beginnig (i find thats usually the
best way to begin anything) of our comunication, where we talked about
weather or not there was tolerance in the bible or not and you
heavyly argued that the bible didnt tell us to be tolerant.
I have also grasped as much as the Baptist church follow the
entire bible directly without interpretation.
Please correct me if im wrong thus far, im merely trying to sum up where
we have gotten to in our correspondance.

well onto what this is all about, the questions.
------

1,
You told me that with the tale of the stray sheep that Jesus
talked about the shepherd would leave the flock for,

Matthew 18:12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
18:13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that [sheep], than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

you said that he was speaking sound buisness sence in leaving the flock
to gather in the stray sheep, since it also carried value.
Here i asked if not sound buisness sense would be to count his losses
with the one sheep, rather than to risk loosing the remaining ninety
and nine? But if it is about returning the lost sheep to the flok
and as it say in the quote means rejoicing even more over this sheep
than the other many sheep, is the verses not about tolerance and forgivnes and the apreciation of free will.
What i mean about this is that;

a,
Shouldnt the shepherd accept that the sheep had strayed,
although he didnt like or necissarily aproved of it leaving in the
first place? (wich as i personally see it is the definition of tolerance)

b,
Forgiving the sheep and accepting it back and loving it that much more
than the others for the fact that, it had seen foreighn land(s) but
had CHOOSEN to return from where it came, instead of the
ninety and nine that kept following without ever having known anything else than what the shepherd had shown them?
------

2,
when we talked about the man that was told not to sell his kids after all

18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.

18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

did you not say that this was about ensuring getting your debts payed back to you?
cause what i see is;
a,
that he forgives the man his debt totally, since it doesnt say that
he prolonged the payback time, but merely that he forgave him the debt.
and it is not until the man goes out and rains hell on a man oweing himself that he himself is punished?

18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.

18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.

18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.

18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

b,
Does he not here tell that that you should forgive people for their trespasses if they ask of it
and only if they go out and do the same injustice to another that he himself was forgiven for
will he be punished, cause this again speaks of tolerance in my mind;
accepting the fact that one have wronged you if he only ask forgivness from the heart,
although not necissarily liking the fact that one have been wronged.
an so should you not leave the final mortal judgment of the person unless they
do the same sin to another that he had been forgiven for?
------
3,
if one speaks of the subtext in a sentence, text or anything else for that matter
is that not interpreting the item in question?
------------------------------------------------

well that is all i will write for now, since i know that it is already a mouthful,
but i truly hope that you will still indulge me with your answers to my questions and i will look forward to reading your reply.

Take care.

[Dirk]

Re: Pastor Bathfire, please teach me.

What is your real intention? Why Pastor Bathfire? Do you have a crush on him you filthy homosexual!

Leviticus 20:10
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

[Sexual deviant]

Re: Pastor Bathfire, please teach me.

What is your real intention? Why Pastor Bathfire? Do you have a crush on him you filthy homosexual!

Leviticus 20:10
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

ofcorse not, but to answer your question on why Bathfire, i would like to direct your attention to the thread posted by pastor Bathfire called
'informative world map' for your answer.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Pastor Bathfire, please teach me.

Please do not use the return key at the end of every line - it makes it look like you are writing some sort of godless poetry.

I will address your concerns in a moment.

[Sexual deviant]

Re: Pastor Bathfire, please teach me.

Please do not use the return key at the end of every line - it makes it look like you are writing some sort of godless poetry.

I will address your concerns in a moment.

Well the only reason i use the enter key as i do is simply to make the text easier to read and give the reader some overview of the text, but ofcorse if you find it ungodly to do so and find that it disturbs more than it helps i will refrain from doing so in the future.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Pastor Bathfire, please teach me.

[…]1, […]. Here i asked if not sound business sense would be to count his losses with the one sheep, rather than to risk loosing the remaining ninety and nine?

Losing it is a loss, the time spent finding it is not a loss. A 1st century shepherd did not get paid by the hour. His time was without value. – so “No.”

is the verses not about tolerance and forgivnes and the appreciation of free will?

Free will? Remember to whom Jesus was speaking! Do you think he spoke to bronze-age shepherds or professors of philosophy from Aarhus University?

Shouldnt the shepherd accept that the sheep had strayed, although he didnt like or necissarily aproved of it leaving in the first place? (wich as i personally see it is the definition of tolerance)

”Accept it had strayed”??? The damn thing had strayed! He could hardly deny it!!!

Forgiving the sheep

I do not know what church you go to but here, we do not “forgive sheep”, We shear them, skin them and eat them.

and accepting it back and loving it that much more than the others for the fact that, it had seen foreign land(s)

Foreign Lands???? Are you mad??? Are you suggesting Our Lord Who died temporarily for our sins, actually believed that sheep went on holiday to Spain or somewhere????

but had CHOOSEN to return from where it came,

Hmmm… so you think the sheep did the right thing to come back and be sold for slaughter? Seems to me that sheep are not intelligent! That is why the Shepherd went looking for it!

instead of the ninety and nine that kept following without ever having known anything else than what the shepherd had shown them? ----

You are thinking too deeply, sheep don’t think much. I doubt the one that went off knew where it had been.

2, when we talked about the man that was told not to sell his kids after all [blah, blah, blah, repaying your debts]

One verse to sum it all up: Ro:13:8: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

well that is all i will write for now, since i know that it is already a mouthful, but i truly hope that you will still indulge me with your answers to my questions and i will look forward to reading your reply.
Take care.

The Lord protects me, may he protect you (but not so that you notice too much… In a sort of Fatherly way)

[Sexual deviant]

Re: Pastor Bathfire, please teach me.

well first of i would like to thank you for granting me the time to answer my questions, but i feel that i apparently havent expressed myself clearly enough since many of the answers you have given me dont really correspond to the questions that i at least meant to ask, for example,
when i ask about the shepherd that leaves his flok to find the sheep i dont ask about the time it takes for him to find it, but instead i ask about the risk in leaving the 99 other sheep unatended, to find the single stray one, for i dont see any referance to him leaving the other sheep with another hearder wich means that while he is gone, the other shesp are free to roam as they please. so i ask not of the time it takes for the shepherd to find the stray, but about the value of the other sheep that he leaves to do so, should they not be valued higher then the one,
i mean isnt 99 sheep worth more than one?

and when i spoke about the sheep seeing different lands i merely meant different pastures if you will and not that it had gone to other countries, so no i did suggest that Jesus believed that sheep whent on vacation, but the sheep did still wander off to other places, but you didnt answer on why he would rejoice so much more over the single sheep after it returned over the 99 that stayed.

so in short does the value in currency of 1 sheep outweigh the value of 99?

and why should he rejoice more of the one that returned than the remaining 99?

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and about Ro:13:8: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Does this then mean that we should completely disregard that the man WAS in debt to Jesus and when he asked for time Jesus DID forgive him his debt

18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

----------------------

and you still havent answered my question about seeking subtext as being interpretation and the reason that i ask this is that you yourself in the previous thread spoke of the subtext about the sheep...

and one more thing, is the lamb in revelations also considered an actual lamb? or as i have always been told is it a referance to your lord and savior Jesus Christ?

and as always i look forward to your reply

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Pastor Bathfire, please teach me.

[…] i ask about the risk in leaving the 99 other sheep unattended, to find the single stray one, […]i mean aren’t 99 sheep worth more than one?

Indeed, indeed they are. It is thus essential to the story and the meaning of Christianity that you have Faith that they were all, somehow safe. Perhaps they were locked up in someone’s house, perhaps he had several dogs guarding them, perhaps they were tied to trees, perhaps he had had a dream in which God appeared and told him all would be OK. Any of these solutions would be fine. Simply have faith!

, but you didnt answer on why he would rejoice so much more over the single sheep after it returned over the 99 that stayed, so in short does the value in currency of 1 sheep outweigh the value of 99?

Yes, I suspect that peasant shepherds worked on a very small profit margin per sheep.

Say sheep cost 5 Shekels (I have no idea how much a sheep costs)
Say you can sell it for 5 Shekel 05 cents – 100 sheep cost 500 shekels and get you 505 shekels when you sell 100. Profit = 5 Shekels
If you sell 99, you only get 499.95 Shekels, so next time you can only buy 99, not 100! Disaster, as your subsistence economy takes a dive!

Then Jesus gives us the human angle. If you lose a pencil, then you find it, first you are disappointed then happy – in reality, you are no better off, but this is what humans do.

and about Ro:13:8: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Does this then mean that we should completely disregard that the man WAS in debt to Jesus and when he asked for time Jesus DID forgive him his debt

You confuse the debt. “Owe no man anything” is pretty straightforward – don’t be in debt. Pay up. Be sensible, etc.

Here Jesus says you must comply with secular law. He says that elsewhere too:
1st Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1st Peter 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1st Peter 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

BUT
“for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.” The ‘law’ is God’s law. Different, you see.

and you still havent answered my question about seeking subtext as being interpretation and the reason that i ask this is that you yourself in the previous thread spoke of the subtext about the sheep...

Did I? Seeking subtexts is always fraught with difficulties. If God thinks it is important that you understand something, He will reveal it to you. If not, take it at face value.

The motto here is, “When you hear hoof beats, think horses not zebras!”

and one more thing, is the lamb in revelations also considered an actual lamb? or as i have always been told is it a referance to your lord and savior Jesus Christ?

Of course it’s not a lamb. It’s Jesus.

Re:5:6: And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Re:5:8: And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Re:5:12: Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

See how John (who was persecuted and called mad) manages to put a capital “L”. Now normally capital letters, in American, are to denote “one special thing”. (Notice how “sheep” in the first reference did not have a capital letter.)

Thus it is Jesus, and that should be clear.

[Dirk]

Re: Pastor Bathfire, please teach me.

ofcorse not, but to answer your question on why Bathfire, i would like to direct your attention to the thread posted by pastor Bathfire called
'informative world map' for your answer.

No, I think you are in love with Pastor Bathfire. It's ok if you have homosexual feelings. We can cure you of those evil feelings.