John 3:16, how could it be true?

[Rachael Van Helsing]

In the spirit of my 'would even Jesus get into heaven' thread, something else came into my mind to ponder.

When looking at this verse, here:

Luke 1 27-28 27To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Now since an angel came 'in unto her', this does suggest, somewhat, that god did not do the 'begetting'.

Therefore how can this very famous verse:

John 3:16 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Be true?

When you consider the meanings in the bible of 'came in unto' in other instances:

Genesis 6:4 4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
(And the above verse raises fresh questions in itself!)

Genesis 29:23 23And it came to pass in the evening, that he took Leah his daughter, and brought her to him; and he went in unto her.

Genesis 38:18 18 And he said, What pledge shall I give thee? And she said, Thy signet, and thy bracelets, and thy staff that is in thine hand. And he gave it her, and came in unto her, and she conceived by him.

So that gives a pretty good idea of what those words mean. So, who fathered Jesus exactly? Because that verse in Luke:1 suggests it wasn't 'god'!

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: John 3:16, how could it be true?

Angels are an extension of God you stupid harlot. Basically they are divine sock puppets.

[Mrs. Rogers]

Re: John 3:16, how could it be true?

Genesis 6:4 4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
(And the above verse raises fresh questions in itself!)

I am not surprised that a story about randy angels would capture your imagination, Mrs. Hellsinger. Let's have these tawdry, Godforsaken questions of yours then, so that True Christians™ may have an insight into the Unsaved Mind.

[Rachael Van Helsing]

Re: John 3:16, how could it be true?

Angels are an extension of God you stupid harlot. Basically they are divine sock puppets.

Umm......where in the bible does it say that, BJ?

I am not surprised that a story about randy angels would capture your imagination, Mrs. Hellsinger.

And just what is being implied here?

Let's have these tawdry, Godforsaken questions of yours then, so that True Christians™ may have an insight into the Unsaved Mind.

Well that raises ample questions. 'Sons of god'? Who were they, didn't the bible say he had only the 'one begotten son' (who it doesn't even seem that he begat), yet who are these others? And they had children with earth women? What happened to these children, their descendants?
And why is there a suggestion of polytheism there in what is meant to be a monotheistic religion?

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Re: John 3:16, how could it be true?

Well that raises ample questions. 'Sons of god'? Who were they, didn't the bible say he had only the 'one begotten son' (who it doesn't even seem that he begat), yet who are these others? And they had children with earth women? What happened to these children, their descendants?
And why is there a suggestion of polytheism there in what is meant to be a monotheistic religion?

Obviously GOD begat Adam from a pile of dust and Eve and Lilith (not OUR whore, the first one) and a bunch of other people.

[Rachael Van Helsing]

Re: John 3:16, how could it be true?

Obviously GOD begat Adam from a pile of dust and Eve and Lilith (not OUR whore, the first one) and a bunch of other people.

Not so, Pastor. For if you read the verse below:

Genesis 6: 1-2 1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

You see, right there, it does not say 'men found the daughters of men fair', it refers to the 'sons of god' as divine beings, and, indeed, the children to come out of those unions were far from ordinary as described in the verse I quoted before.

So how does that make sense? It really would be easier to explain it by saying they were all aliens .

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Re: John 3:16, how could it be true?

It really would be easier to explain it by saying they were all aliens .

Oh, sure! A bunch of all-male alien meat puppets just happened to show up here and find a race composed entirely of nubile females and they just happened to be biologically compatible and they just happened to be configured to be PHYSICALLY compatible and they just happened to ...........wait.....it's already past ridiculous.

Face facts. All men are derived directly from GOD and all women are merely ribs which are part human (the ability to yappity-yap-yap-yap) and part goat (the rest) which are needed only to bake little soldiers for JESUS. THAT makes PLENTY of sense!

[Rachael Van Helsing]

Re: John 3:16, how could it be true?

Oh, sure! A bunch of all-male alien meat puppets just happened to show up here and find a race composed entirely of nubile females and they just happened to be biologically compatible and they just happened to be configured to be PHYSICALLY compatible and they just happened to ...........wait.....it's already past ridiculous.

Now here's something ironic. The alien idea is MORE ridiculous to you than the idea of people being made out of dirt, or a rib? And I wasn't suggesting it was an all female population, or an all male alien crew.

And anyway, how do you explain these 'sons of god' then? Who were they? What were they? And why are they not mentioned again?

Face facts. All men are derived directly from GOD and all women are merely ribs which are part human (the ability to yappity-yap-yap-yap) and part goat (the rest) which are needed only to bake little soldiers for JESUS. THAT makes PLENTY of sense!

Well, personally I believe people evolved but hey, what do I know? And WHERE does the bible talk about people being 'part goat'????
And I've already covered, I believe, the difference in our beliefs on origin of species. At this present moment I'm more curious as to who these mystery beings supposedly were.

[Mrs. Rogers]

Re: John 3:16, how could it be true?

And anyway, how do you explain these 'sons of god' then? Who were they? What were they? And why are they not mentioned again?

I am but a mere woman - and therefore could very well be wrong - but I thought they were a group of dissatisfied angels who, tiring of singing praises unto the LORD all day long, travelled to earth for a bit of slap and tickle with mortal women; a belated teenage rebellion of sorts.

Perhaps the Bible doesn't mention them again because not only did God drown them in The Flood - killing everything, even that which did no wrong - but He was awfully embarrassed by the whole mess; and when the LORD loses Holy Face, everyone suffers.

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. (Genesis 6:5-7)

[Rachael Van Helsing]

Re: John 3:16, how could it be true?

I am but a mere woman - and therefore could very well be wrong - but I thought they were a group of dissatisfied angels who, tiring of singing praises unto the LORD all day long, travelled to earth for a bit of slap and tickle with mortal women; a belated teenage rebellion of sorts.

Lol and you put that so eloquently
If there actually was a heaven and that's what went on in there could you blame them for wanting a little, as you put it 'slap and tickle' instead?

Perhaps the Bible doesn't mention them again because not only did God drown them in The Flood - killing everything, even that which did no wrong - but He was awfully embarrassed by the whole mess; and when the LORD loses Holy Face, everyone suffers.

Even if such a flood had happened, there would have been some survivors.

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. (Genesis 6:5-7)

You'd think that if that were the case, a lot more people would be getting smoten right now.
And just what defines evil in the bible? The god of the bible seems to exhibit every trait that one would call evil. So were these people then all good, or what?

[eliot mayfield]

Re: John 3:16, how could it be true?

Hellscreamer, There is evidence that even seccular souls have to admit to proving the great flood!


"There is proof. In three ways.
1) Every culture on earth has stories about a "flood" of some kind, with one man and his family being saved by a boat or raft (even Eskimos). Many are several thousand years old or more, some dating back to the time of the fertile cresent.
2) In every corner of the planet you can find, scattered here and there, a layer of strata that can only be fine mud or silt (even found under the Antarctica ice sheet). It contains the same types of elements all over the world and it represents the dividing line between the age of the dinosaurs and the age of mammals. Scientists all over the world recognize this layer, but disagree on what caused it. Forty days and nights of standing muddy water?
3) The earth is crissed crossed with ancient river beds, some over ten miles wide. Where did they come from? Where did they go? Near Vernal Utah you can stand and look at one such ancient river bed. It stands near vertical due to upheavel in the earths crust and contains virtually every species of animal, including dinosaurs and fossilized palm trees and wood, fish, turtles, birds, etc. How did they all die and get deposited together in one huge sand bar? Receeding flood waters?

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view.php/2826

[Rachael Van Helsing]

Re: John 3:16, how could it be true?

There may well have been massive changes throughout the ice ace, melting of the ice age, so son, so on. That only proves evolution, not a biblical flood which wiped out almost everyone.

And as to the ark......LOL...I'm not even going to START with what's wrong with that idea.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: John 3:16, how could it be true?

There may well have been massive changes throughout the ice ace, melting of the ice age, so son, so on. That only proves evolution, not a biblical flood which wiped out almost everyone.

And as to the ark......LOL...I'm not even going to START with what's wrong with that idea.

Really, a big ship is implausible but what is plausible to you is a bunch of super intelligent, highly specialized sponges taking the planet over by random, dumb luck?

[Rachael Van Helsing]

Re: John 3:16, how could it be true?

Really, a big ship is implausible but what is plausible to you is a bunch of super intelligent, highly specialized sponges taking the planet over by random, dumb luck?

To quote a line in one of Stephen King's books, humans have always been the craziest, most murderous animals in the jungle. It's evolution, and the fact that humans through the ages have no problem killing things and adapting their environment to suit them. Like was said in 'the matrix' most other animals adapt to their environment, not the other way around.

As to the implausibility of the ark, here's an example. Exactly how would he have been able to tell the sex of insects like ants and millipedes??? And that's only the tip of the iceberg.

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Re: John 3:16, how could it be true?

As to the implausibility of the ark, here's an example. Exactly how would he have been able to tell the sex of insects like ants and millipedes??? And that's only the tip of the iceberg.

WAKE UP, WAKE UP! Noah was not some sort of pet veterinarian! He didn't examine the orifices of the animals. GOD sent him a pair of each and some extra pairs of some of them.