[Elmer G. White]

Re: Catholics teach Jesus is impotent!

... the categories of cake and bread are not separate in the Bible, so why should I separate them.

You're asking us to participate in your categorization that is just a straw man (a fallacy) of the richness of the concept of bread in the Bible. Why should we limit ourselves to your vain details?

Please see above for a Biblical explanation of the overlapping categories of bakery products.

Grain scientists see a difference between cake and bread...there is a difference between cake and bread...

Why do you respect one secular scholar over the Bible? Have you now established that Jesus defined bread from the viewpoint of gluten with suitable documentation? Until you assess these issues your categorization remains an opinion. Why should we accept your definition as relevant for God?

The ad nauseam is starting to live up to its name, isn't it?

Incidentally, how does (from the Catholic viewpoint) failure to consume gluten-containing wafers affect a person's chances for Salvation? How does it compare with other trespasses? Is the the table of devils?

Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[tomdstone]

Re: Catholics teach Jesus is impotent!

Please see above for a Biblical explanation of the overlapping categories of bakery products.

Why do you respect one secular scholar over the Bible? Have you now established that Jesus defined bread from the viewpoint of gluten with suitable documentation? Until you assess these issues your categorization remains an opinion. Why should we accept your definition as relevant for God?

The ad nauseam is starting to live up to its name, isn't it?

Incidentally, how does (from the Catholic viewpoint) failure to consume gluten-containing wafers affect a person's chances for Salvation? How does it compare with other trespasses? Is the the table of devils?

Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

If you check your Japanese Bible, either the Protestant or the Catholic version, it does not matter, you will see how Mark 14:22 or Luke 22:19 is translated. You will see the word:パン
You will not see the word:
ケーキ
Why do you suppose that this is so?
Even lay people, except possibly, for members of your landover church, see a difference between bread and cake.
As I said already, at the Last Supper, Jesus said to do this in remembrance of Me. He did not say to do something else.
This does not mean that Jesus is impotent. And it is certainly a Big Lie to say that Catholics teach such.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Catholics teach Jesus is impotent!

If you check your Japanese Bible, either the Protestant or the Catholic version, it does not matter, you will see how Mark 14:22 or Luke 22:19 is translated. You will see the word:パン
You will not see the word:
ケーキ
Why do you suppose that this is so?
Even lay people, except possibly, for members of your landover church, see a difference between bread and cake.
As I said already, at the Last Supper, Jesus said to do this in remembrance of Me. He did not say to do something else.
This does not mean that Jesus is impotent. And it is certainly a Big Lie to say that Catholics teach such.

This is interesting. I did refer to the common people earlier as an example of the diversity of the definitions for bread. Now you use it in a different manner. You use it as an ad populum to show that "cake" and "bread" are totally different categories. As such, this is (obviously) a fallacy, as the Truth™ does on depend on the number of followers of a claim. It is also (one again) a straw man, as you have not demonstrated that the presence or absence of gluten (down to the last molecule, or do you accept homeopathic gluten?) is the line that laypeople use to differentiate between these two baking products. Did you know that many birthday cakes (a sweet product with decoration) do contain gluten, btw? In fact, a majority of them are wheat-based, so they fall into the bread category if we follow your reasoning (I am consciously using the reductio ad absurdum here, but it does show that gluten content will not help you distinguish between cakes and bread - it is a definition that probably won't coincide with your intuitive classification).

We do know that as totally immersed followers of Jesus we are a minority (which undermines your slight ad hominem even further). We are not interested in the majority opinion but in the Bible. The main issue - why Jesus would glorify only gluten-containing products during an era when millet and buckwheat were cultivated - remains (and how it affects Salvation). It does not disappear by the red herring (unsurprisingly, a fallacy) strategy of discussing vocabulary choices (apart from those in the Bible, where cakes and bread overlap) instead.

2 Timothy 2:23
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

The complaint about Catholics being mistreated is just an ad misericordiam - the Truth™ does not change even if you feel that you have been mistreated. You can still be wrong.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Basilissa]

Re: Catholics teach Jesus is impotent!

there is a difference between cake and bread and that is what you fail to see.

From the dictionary:

bread: a usually baked and leavened food made of a mixture whose basic constituent is flour or meal
Source

I don't see here anything about gluten, do you?

cake
a : a breadlike food made from a dough or batter that is usually fried or baked in small flat shapes and is often unleavened
b : a sweet baked food made from a dough or thick batter usually containing flour and sugar and often shortening, eggs, and a raising agent (such as baking powder)
c : a flattened usually round mass of food that is baked or fried: a fish cake
Source

It's a breadlike substance which main ingredient is flour. Again, nothing about gluten. It looks like according to this definition, Indian bread falls under the definition of cake, not bread. I hope this helps you to understand that the difference between a cake a bread is rather murky and definitely not gluten-based.

Also, according to this dictionary definition, Communion wafers definitely fit the definition of a cake (a) rather than bread (small flat shape and unleavened). Why would you agree to such a heresy as a Catholic?!