[Remy Lebeau]

Re: Difference from Catholics?

Every day. That you pick up your Holy Bible. You put your complete and total trust in those "pedophiles" that you now ridicule. You owe everything you know about Jesus Christ to the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church.

It is historical fact that they, by their authority place with them by Jesus Christ, first established the canon oh Holy Scripture. And you dare to insult them.

I don't owe those boy fondlers anything accept a neutering for all the sorry pitiful souls like yourself that they have mentally destroyed through their rectal violations. My trust is in GOD ALMIGHTY, not some mortal man. This is the problem with your cult. You worship men and a woman and have the nerve to imply that your Organized Pedophile Ring invented Jesus Christ!! BLASPHEMY!!!!

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: Difference from Catholics?

I don't owe those boy fondlers anything accept a neutering for all the sorry pitiful souls like yourself that they have mentally destroyed through their rectal violations. My trust is in GOD ALMIGHTY, not some mortal man. This is the problem with your cult. You worship men and a woman and have the nerve to imply that your Organized Pedophile Ring invented Jesus Christ!! BLASPHEMY!!!!

You deny history. See my other thread:

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=29097

Jesus Christ appointed man to be His representative on Earth. Peter. The first Pope.

Matthew 16:13-20 - Upon this rock I will build my Church
Matthew 18:17-18 - if he refuses to listen even to the Church ... (shows the importance of obeying and consequences of disobeying the Church)
Matthew 28:18-20 - Go Baptize and teach all nations ...(the Church's mission)
Mark 16:16 - Go to the whole world and proclaim the gospel.
Luke 10:16 - Whoever hears you, hears me, he who rejects you, rejects me.
John 14:16,16, 26 - Holy Spirit will be with you always to teach and reminder you of everything.
John 16:12 - the Spirit of Truth with guide you to all truth.
1 Timothy 3:15 - Church is the pillar and foundation of truth

The Church is the Body of Christ
Romans 12:4-5 - though many, we are one body in Christ
1 Corinthians 6:15 - don't you know that your bodies are members of Christ
1 Corinthians 12:20-27 - you are Christ's body, individually parts of it
Ephesians 5:30 - we are members of his body
Colossians 1:18 - He is the head of the Body, the Church


The Church must be one.


John 10:16 - there shall be one fold and one shepherd
John 17:17-23 - I pray that they may be one, as we are one
John 17:23 - that they may be brought to perfection as one
Romans 12:5 - we, though many, are one body in Christ
Romans 15:5 - God grant you to think in harmony with one another
Romans 16:17 - avoid those who create dissensions
1 Corinthians 1:10 - I urge you that there be no divisions among you
1 Corinthians 12:13 - in one spirit we were baptized into one body
Ephesians 4:4-6 -There is one Body, one Spirit, just as one hope is the goal of your calling by God. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father of all, over all, through all and within all.
Philippians 2:2 - be of same mind, united in heart, thinking one thing
Colossians 3:15 - the peace into which you were called in one body

The Church is Apostolic

Matthew 16:13-20 - Jesus built his Church on Peter, the rock (foretold in the OT: Isaiah 22:15-25)
Luke 22:29-30 - I confer a kingdom on you, just as my Father conferred one on me: you will eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and you will sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luke 22:32 - Peter appointed to be the chief shepherd (that Peter's faith may not fail)
John 10:16 - One shepherd to shepherd Christ's sheep
John 15:16 - Jesus chose special men to be his Apostles
John 21:17-19 - Peter appointed to be the chief shepherd
John 20:21 - Jesus gave the Apostles his own mission
Ephesians 4:11 - Church leaders are hierarchical
1 Timothy 3:1,8; 1 Timothy 5:17 - identifies roles of bishops, priests and deacons
Titus 1:5 - Commission for bishops to ordain priests


The Church is Authoritative Matthew 18:18 - Jesus gives to the Apostles the power to legislate
Matthew 18:17 - Jesus gives to the Apostles the power to discipline
Matthew 28:18-20 - Jesus delegates all power to Apostles
Luke 10:16 - Jesus gives to the Apostles the power to speak with Christ's voice
John 20:23 - Jesus gives to the Apostles the power to forgive sins
1 Corinthians 11:24 - Jesus gives to the Apostles the power to offer sacrifice (the Eucharist)

The Church is Infallible

Matthew 28:20 - Jesus tells them: I am with you always
Luke 10:16 - speaks with Christ's own voice
John 14:26 - Holy Spirit is to teach and remind them of everything
John 16:13 - guided by the Holy Spirit into all Truth
Acts 15:28 - Apostles speak with the voice of the Holy Spirit
1 Timothy 3:15 - Church is called the "pillar and foundation of truth"
1 John 2:27 - anointing of the Holy Spirit remains in you

The Church is Perpetual; Eternal/Un-ending Isaiah 9:6-7 - of Christ's government there will be no end
Daniel 2:44 - God's kingdom shall not be destroyed
Daniel 7:14 - his kingdom shall not be destroyed
Luke 1:32, 33 - no end to Christ kingdom
Matthew 7:24 - Jesus is like a wise man who built his house on a rock
Matthew 13:24-30 - let wheat and weeds grow together until harvest
Matthew 16:18 - the gates of Hell will never prevail against Christ's Church
John 14:16 - Holy Spirit will be with you always
Matthew 28:19-20 - I am with you all days

The Primacy of Peter Isaiah 22:15-25 - Prophecy of the Catholic Papacy foretold in the Old Testament
Matthew 16:18 - Upon this rock (Peter) I will build my Church. And the gates of Hell can never overpower it
Note: Many scholars believe Our Lord most probably spoke Aramaic because it was the native tongue for Jesus' immediate disciples. In Aramaic there is only one word for "rock": Kepha. So he would have said: "Blessed are you Simon bar Jonah, for flesh and blood have not revealed this to you but my Heavenly Father. So I say to you thou are "Kepha" and upon this "Kepha" I will build my Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it." Conversations about Petros and Petra therefore are probably irrelevant. St. Jerome, who translated the text to Greek would never give a female ending to a masculine person, Peter.
Matthew 16:19 - I will give you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven: whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven
Luke 22:32 - Peter's faith will strengthen his brethren. (Note: The word "you" {I have prayed for "you"} in Greek is in the personal tense, not the plural "you" like 'all you apostles' tense.)
John 21:17 - Given Christ's flock as chief shepherd
Mark 6:7 - angel sent to announce the Resurrection to Peter
Luke 24:34 - Risen Jesus first appeared to Peter
Acts 1:13-26 - Peter headed meeting which elected Matthias to replace Judas
Acts 2:14 - Peter lead Apostles in preaching on Pentecost
Acts 2:41 - Peter received the first converts
Acts 3:6-7 - Peter performed the first miracle after Pentecost
Acts 5:1-11 - Peter inflicted the first punishment: Ananias and Saphira
Acts 8:21 - Peter excommunicated the first heretic, Simon Magnus
Acts 10:44-46 - Peter received a revelation to admit the Gentles into the Church
Acts 15 - Peter lead the first Catholic council in Jerusalem
Acts 15:7-12 - Peter spoke saying: "My brothers, he said, .... But we believe that we are saved in the same way as they are: through the grace of the Lord Jesus." The entire assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul describing all the signs and wonders God had worked through them among the gentiles." (pronounces the first dogmatic decision)
Galatians 1:8 - after his conversion, Paul visits the chief Apostle
Matthew 10:1-4, Mark 3:16-19, Luke 6:14-16, Acts 1:13 - Peter's name always heads the list of Apostles
Luke 9:32, Luke 8:46, Mark 16:7 - Peter and his companions
Matthew 18:21, Mark 8:29, Luke 12:41, John 6:69 - Peter spoke for the Apostles

Peter is mentioned 191 times in the New Testament. All the other apostles names combined are mentioned only 130 times. And the most commonly referenced apostle apart from Peter is John, whose name appears 48 times.

There is ONE Church that fits this criteria: Roman Catholic.
And it was the Roman Catholic Church which presented you with a Bible that you now entrust with your eternal life.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Difference from Catholics?

No, silly. The Catholic "church" was created (by men) long after the Bible was written (by God).

http://www.bible.ca/cath-bible-origin.htm

http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/roman-catholicism/did-roman-catholic-church-give-us-our-bible

http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/1252.asp

http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/excerpts/1252/1252ex1.asp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUwqNjcWcx8

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/kjb_from_catholics.htm

http://www.portlandchristians.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/lesson8_did_the_catholic_church_give_us_the_bible.pdf

I eagerly await your next pack of lies

[Remy Lebeau]

Re: Difference from Catholics?

You are simply asserting that your Pedophile Ring is that which is referenced in those verses. In no way, shape or form does it say that the Catholic Church is THE church. The Bible does not even mention the Roman Catholic Church. The idea that Peter was the first pope is a catholic myth invented by your antichrist church.

You catholic swine infuriate me with the liberties you take with scripture. The mormons will probably take those same verses and claim that theirs' is THE church after seeing your pathetic "interpretation".

The REAL church is the one that follows all of the Bible and doesn't add to it. That definitely isn't the Roman Pedophile Association of Cardinals nor its pedophiliac, pedophile protecting, hush money dealing pope.

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: Difference from Catholics?

No, silly. The Catholic "church" was created (by men) long after the Bible was written (by God).

http://www.bible.ca/cath-bible-origin.htm

http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/roman-catholicism/did-roman-catholic-church-give-us-our-bible

http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/1252.asp

http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/excerpts/1252/1252ex1.asp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUwqNjcWcx8

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/kjb_from_catholics.htm

http://www.portlandchristians.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/lesson8_did_the_catholic_church_give_us_the_bible.pdf

I eagerly await your next pack of lies

I think I would die of old age should I attempt to trudge through all of your propoganda.

If you come up with a real point, post it here, and I will address it so.
But you seriously cannot expect me to wade through this ocean of links. I would not expect this of you. Post points (not links) individually, and we can take this one step at a time

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: Difference from Catholics?

You are simply asserting that your Pedophile Ring is that which is referenced in those verses. In no way, shape or form does it say that the Catholic Church is THE church. The Bible does not even mention the Roman Catholic Church. The idea that Peter was the first pope is a catholic myth invented by your antichrist church.

It is THE Church for it is the only one that meets this criteria.

It is from Peter, the rock upon which the first, ORIGINAL Christian Church was built. All other forms of Christianity stem from this one source.

The Church is the Body of Christ. If you understood this, you would understand the priesthood. But you do not, or you would have priests.

The Church must be one. The Catholic Church has a leader, the Pope, established by Jesus, to "tend His sheep". The reason so many protestant religions are formed, is because they have no shepherd. They are not One. The Catholic belief is the same no matter which city, country, or continent you find yourself. We all believe the same.

The Church is Apostolic. And you all claim to be from John the Baptist. Obviously you are not Apostolic. However, the Catholic Church is. We have a direct line, like a family tree back to Peter.

The Church is Authoritative And you believe in Bible alone! The NT wasn't even started until 20 years after Pentecost. TWENTY YEARS. And besides that, you accept the Catholic Church's authority because you agree the Bible to be the inspired scripture. Guess who decided this? Guess who God CHOSE to work through??? CATHOLICS!! And He still does. Because His Church is Eternal. Period.

The Church is Infallible Obviously the Catholic Church is infallible, or we wouldn't have the Canon of Scriptures .

The Church is Perpetual; Eternal/Un-ending The Catholic Church is the only Church having been perpetual and un-ending. History is a testament. Your "church" moreso an "ecclesiastical community" was established shortly after Martin Luther saw fit to change the Bible to fit His own perverted idea of what God's word should really say.

You catholic swine infuriate me with the liberties you take with scripture. The mormons will probably take those same verses and claim that theirs' is THE church after seeing your pathetic "interpretation".

Don't worry. You can trust the Catholic Church because it was founded by God through Peter. And it's "interpretation" is the only correct way to view it, by your own interpretations, you act on your own authority to privately interpret the scriptures. The Catholic Church has NEVER changed their interpretation of scripture.

The REAL church is the one that follows all of the Bible and doesn't add to it. That definitely isn't the Roman Pedophile Association of Cardinals nor its pedophiliac, pedophile protecting, hush money dealing pope.

The REAL Church is the one that was around before the Bible and the one that God worked through to establish a written work. Jesus never commanded the Apostles to write a Bible. He said to preach. Oral Tradition

Furthermore, you see fit to remove from Holy Scripture??? Why? Well because Martin Luther said so... And his opinion means a lot to protestants...

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Difference from Catholics?

Jesus Christ appointed man to be His representative on Earth. Peter. The first Pope.

Matthew 16:13-20 - Upon this rock I will build my Church

M't:16:15: He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

M't:16:16: And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

M't:16:17: And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

M't:16:18: And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Note how the words in blue font are connected. Jesus has in fact said,

“Yes Simon, that is the right answer and, listen up Rocky (Peter), my church will withstand all assaults if this is believed.”

Note how earlier Jesus used ‘rock’ as a metaphor for a solid unchanging fact, a sound foundation:

M't:7:24: Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
M't:7:25: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Surely this shows even a satanic brainwashed catlick that it is the Faith of the Church of Christ that is the rock and that the Apostles were bright enough to realize the continuing allusion to 'rock'!

Jesus then continues to address Peter but on a separate and not linked subject

M't:16:19: And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

But later we see that all the Apostles are thus blessed – surely this means that Jesus was emphasizing to Peter the responsibility of being an Apostle?

Now look what follows. The Baptist understanding must be correct – why would Jesus give His sole trust to someone to whom He then says:

M't:16:23: But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: Difference from Catholics?

M't:16:15: He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

M't:16:16: And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

M't:16:17: And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

M't:16:18: And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Note how the words in blue font are connected. Jesus has in fact said,

“Yes Simon, that is the right answer and, listen up Rocky (Peter), my church will withstand all assaults if this is believed.”

Haha. I love it when people phrase it this way. Why? Because you claim that Jesus refers to himself as "This". Hahaha. I can see him walking up to Satan and saying "Hey, you want somma this???"

I'm sorry. "This" just cannot be used in that context at that time. Let me take you back to English Class:

Subject of the sentece: Peter. "Blessed are you, Simon Peter" "Thou art Peter" (Note, Christ does not mention himself, God, or anything of Divine nature, simply Peter)
Thus, the word "this" must modify the subject of the sentence: Peter.
There is No. None. Zero insinuation that Christ is speaking of Himself when He says "This rock".

Your claim is a pathetic attempt to justify Martin Luther's changes in Theology and Holy Scripture that manages to defy all linguistics in the process. Obviously to you, the Catholic Church must be wrong in their interpretations of things so you take every ample opportunity to twist scripture to say something that simply is not there.

I know it's hard. But you're wrong. And it's OK. God will still love you

Repent.

Note how earlier Jesus used ‘rock’ as a metaphor for a solid unchanging fact, a sound foundation:

M't:7:24: Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
M't:7:25: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Thank you for supporting the Catholic Belief. Peter is the rock. And despite all the tests of time, the Catholic Church has endured and will continue to endure. Forever and ever. Amen.

Surely this shows even a satanic brainwashed catlick that it is the Faith of the Church of Christ that is the rock and that the Apostles were bright enough to realize the continuing allusion to 'rock'!

Tell me... Do you read the whole Bible? Did you read every verse I posted?
I doubt it, it was quite a bit. But you should.

John 21:17 - Given Christ's flock as chief shepherd

Peter is clearly told to feed and tend Christs sheep. Or would you like to argue that here to, Jesus was speaking of himself? Thus, Peter, the head apostle, becomes the Shepherd of all Christianity. ALL of Christ's sheep.

If you need me to... I guess I can break down each of these verses for you in a similar manner. But this would be tedious as you can simple read them yourself.

It is OK if the Catholic Church is right

Jesus then continues to address Peter but on a separate and not linked subject

M't:16:19: And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Oh no. Very much linked.

Isaiah 22:20-23, Eliakim is made master of the palace, a post roughly equivalent to prime minister. As the king's right-hand man, the master of the palace is given the "key of the House of David."

Keys symbolize authority, so bestowing the key to the House of David upon Eliakim is equivalent to giving him, as the king's duly appointed representative, authority over the kingdom. A position which by the symbolic act of giving this key, is to be filled with successors.

But later we see that all the Apostles are thus blessed – surely this means that Jesus was emphasizing to Peter the responsibility of being an Apostle?

Oh no no no

The other Apostles were only given the power to forgive sins. They are in no way equivalent to Peter.

Now look what follows. The Baptist understanding must be correct – why would Jesus give His sole trust to someone to whom He then says:

M't:16:23: But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Ok so we've got a situation where Jesus first calls Peter Blessed, then calls Him satan. Do you argue that he is satan? If so throw all of his books from the Bible. Why not? You already threw out the Deuterocanon...

So Peter had to learn a lesson. He repented. He was good. And his words were divinely inspired. Just because a man sins in no way makes him less worthy to bring the Word to His Sheep.

[Remy Lebeau]

Re: Difference from Catholics?

It is THE Church for it is the only one that meets this criteria.

*sigh* You are part of an organization that has an actual contigency plan in place to protect priests who molest little boys: The Crimen Sollicitationis published in 1962. The pope at the time helped draft and approved it. Your very own Darth Ratzinger, when serving as the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, sent an order to all cardinals, bishops, etc. that all sex abuse investigations would be top secret until 10 years after the victims reached adulthood on the penalty of excommuication. This is a KNOW FACT that the Vatican can't even deny anymore.

Are you honestly going to sit here and tell me that God supports pedophilia, pedophiles and their protectors?

It is from Peter, the rock upon which the first, ORIGINAL Christian Church was built. All other forms of Christianity stem from this one source.
[B]

Your church is not from Peter. It is not the original church. The REAL church is composed of those who believe in the life and sacrifice of Jesus Christ, those who believe wholeheartedly in the Word of God. How dare you attempt to quantify True Faith into some 4-walled Theological Conglomerate. The Roman Catholic Church is a greedy power hunger association of meglomaniacs who profit off of fear, ignorances and superstition. They have absolutely nothing to do with any of Jesus's apostles. Please spare me your church created mythology. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Peter was the first pope just like there is no proof whatoever that Mary ascended to heaven. Your foundations are built upon baseless lies. The catholic church is never mentioned in the Bible. Period. End of discussion.

The Church must be one. The Catholic Church has a leader, the Pope, established by Jesus, to "tend His sheep".

The pope is elected by your cardinals (mortal men) in conclave. It is blasphemous to assert than your cardinals are God. But I'm not surprised to hear blasphemies out of the mouth of a catholic. You worship Mary, pray to idols and other dead people who other mortal men decided were "saints" afterall.

The reason so many protestant religions are formed, is because they have no shepherd. They are not One. The Catholic belief is the same no matter which city, country, or continent you find yourself. We all believe the same.

Your church is just one in a sea of many false churches. How you get off thinking that you are any less of a drop in the already filled bucket is absurd. And even though you are the result of pissing in an already overflowing bucket, each catholic picks and chooses how much of the Bible they'll believe and how much they'll ignore. John Kerry, the abortion supporter: CATHOLIC. John F. Kennedy, the adulterer: CATHOLIC. Nicholas Cage, 3 time divorcee: CATHOLIC. Same beliefs no matter where you go? Give me a break. Maybe the same disregard for scripture wherever you go. If your church were the body of God then God would have full body cancer. Get thee behind me, satan!!!

And besides that, you accept the Catholic Church's authority because you agree the Bible to be the inspired scripture. Guess who decided this? Guess who God CHOSE to work through??? CATHOLICS!!

Are you saying that the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church are one in the same? Please remember your previous diatribe about your so-called "one church".

The Church is Perpetual; Eternal/Un-ending The Catholic Church is the only Church having been perpetual and un-ending. History is a testament. Your "church" moreso an "ecclesiastical community" was established shortly after Martin Luther saw fit to change the Bible to fit His own perverted idea of what God's word should really say.

The Word of God has existed before your false church ever came to power. Perhaps your pedophile enabling succession of "man-gods" simply appeared out of thin air some 1700 years ago, but the True God has existed since the beginning. We trace our faith back to the very beginning.

The Catholic Church has NEVER changed their interpretation of scripture.

Who are you kidding? Each of your successive popes has change the interpretation of scripture from the last pope. There is a reason you don't torture people any longer and it's not secular law, because the vatican is it's own country, right? You're church has even admitted that past popes were wrong. In 50 years I bet it will turn out that Ratzinger was wrong on some issues despite the fact that he "speaks for God". Your church is a joke.

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: Difference from Catholics?

*sigh* You are part of an organization that has an actual contigency plan in place to protect priests who molest little boys: The Crimen Sollicitationis published in 1962. The pope at the time helped draft and approved it. Your very own Darth Ratzinger, when serving as the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, sent an order to all cardinals, bishops, etc. that all sex abuse investigations would be top secret until 10 years after the victims reached adulthood on the penalty of excommuication. This is a KNOW FACT that the Vatican can't even deny anymore.

Are you honestly going to sit here and tell me that God supports pedophilia, pedophiles and their protectors?

The Catholic Church does not make the blasphemous claim to be free from sin, for no one is and "all have sinned". In fact, without sin, there is no need for a Church. The Catholic Church takes sinners, "clasping them to her bosom, at once holy and always in need of purification, follows constantly the path of penance and renewal."

Maybe you misunderstand what we mean when we say "infallible". How do you interpret that? It does not mean free from sin. It means if the Church makes a dogmatic decision, then it is God's Will. No dogmatic decision has ever been reversed. We are guided by the Holy Spirit

Your church is not from Peter. It is not the original church. The REAL church is composed of those who believe in the life and sacrifice of Jesus Christ, those who believe wholeheartedly in the Word of God.

And to believe wholeheartedly in the Word of God would be to accept all of the Word of God (Even if it means you're wrong )

I just explained in an above post this belief with scripture.

How dare you attempt to quantify True Faith into some 4-walled Theological Conglomerate. The Roman Catholic Church is a greedy power hunger association of meglomaniacs who profit off of fear, ignorances and superstition. They have absolutely nothing to do with any of Jesus's apostles. Please spare me your church created mythology. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Peter was the first pope just like there is no proof whatoever that Mary ascended to heaven. Your foundations are built upon baseless lies. The catholic church is never mentioned in the Bible. Period. End of discussion.

Famous last words.

The pope is elected by your cardinals (mortal men) in conclave. It is blasphemous to assert than your cardinals are God.

The Holy Spirit works through these men. Proof is the reasons (quoted above) for the authority of the Church.

But I'm not surprised to hear blasphemies out of the mouth of a catholic. You worship Mary, pray to idols and other dead people who other mortal men decided were "saints" afterall.

I don't worship mary, pray to idols etc etc. Jeez... How many times must we go over this?
We ask them to intercede for us. Jesus' first recorded miracle was by the request of his mother. Why not have her ask us for another one.

Your church is just one in a sea of many false churches. How you get off thinking that you are any less of a drop in the already filled bucket is absurd. And even though you are the result of pissing in an already overflowing bucket, each catholic picks and chooses how much of the Bible they'll believe and how much they'll ignore. John Kerry, the abortion supporter: CATHOLIC. John F. Kennedy, the adulterer: CATHOLIC. Nicholas Cage, 3 time divorcee: CATHOLIC. Same beliefs no matter where you go? Give me a break. Maybe the same disregard for scripture wherever you go. If your church were the body of God then God would have full body cancer. Get thee behind me, satan!!!

Would you judge the faith of billions upon the faith of a few men?
One that calls himself Catholic and one that truly is are quite different. The same catholic faith was proclaimed to these men, yet they reject it, for the way is hard and the gate is narrow.

Are you saying that the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church are one in the same? Please remember your previous diatribe about your so-called "one church".

It was the Catholic Church that established which books were in the NT. That's history. I'm sorry. This must be hard for you to accept

The Word of God has existed before your false church ever came to power. Perhaps your pedophile enabling succession of "man-gods" simply appeared out of thin air some 1700 years ago, but the True God has existed since the beginning. We trace our faith back to the very beginning.

I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

There was no Biblical writings whatsoever for twenty years after Pentecost. Twenty years. Your Bible only religion could not have possibly existed before then. In fact, it could not exist until around 400 AD when the Catholic Church Dogmatically decided what was in the Bible through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Who are you kidding? Each of your successive popes has change the interpretation of scripture from the last pope. There is a reason you don't torture people any longer and it's not secular law, because the vatican is it's own country, right? You're church has even admitted that past popes were wrong. In 50 years I bet it will turn out that Ratzinger was wrong on some issues despite the fact that he "speaks for God". Your church is a joke.

Do not confuse dogma with any kind of tradition or discipline of the Church. Only dogma is not subject to change.

[Remy Lebeau]

Re: Difference from Catholics?

Enough, papist. You aren't going to ignore this simple question and continue spewing one blasphemy after another. Your church facilitates pedophilic behavior. YOUR POPE PROMOTES THE INSTITUTIONAL PROTECTION OF PEDOPHILES FROM PROSECUTION. This is all documented FACT.

*sigh* You are part of an organization that has an actual contigency plan in place to protect priests who molest little boys: The Crimen Sollicitationis published in 1962. The pope at the time helped draft and approved it. Your very own Darth Ratzinger, when serving as the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, sent an order to all cardinals, bishops, etc. that all sex abuse investigations would be top secret until 10 years after the victims reached adulthood on the penalty of excommuication. This is a KNOW FACT that the Vatican can't even deny anymore.

Are you honestly going to sit here and tell me that God supports pedophilia, pedophiles and their protectors?

Do you or do you not believe that God supports pedophilia, pedophiles and their protectors?

Afterwards we can address the rest of your dribble.

[Levi Jones]

Re: Difference from Catholics?

Every day. That you pick up your Holy Bible. You put your complete and total trust in those "pedophiles" that you now ridicule. You owe everything you know about Jesus Christ to the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Actually, we owe it to the Eastern fish heads. Not the Western ones. Ours is based on the Greek not the the Latin vulgar.

It is historical fact that they, by their authority place with them by Jesus Christ, first established the canon oh Holy Scripture. And you dare to insult them.

It is a historical fact that some argue that... Watch the Babylonian whore fall into vain repetition of lies.

It's okay. Jimmy Peter tried the same crap and he got slapped around repeatedly.

You want to try the "wall of text" from catlix.com? You will just be another statistic.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Difference from Catholics?

I think I would die of old age should I attempt to trudge through all of your propoganda.

If you come up with a real point, post it here, and I will address it so.
But you seriously cannot expect me to wade through this ocean of links. I would not expect this of you. Post points (not links) individually, and we can take this one step at a time

Yes, Heaven forbid I ask a Catholic to read. I know you like someone else to read stuff and give you the gist of it, like your priests do with the Bible. Well sorry, but that is not going to cut it. Just like you can't write a decent English essay from just reading the Cliff notes, we cannot have a decent discussion if you expect me to just do all of your research for you. So why don't you rub those two brain cells of yours, do some reading, gather an opinion, and then we can have an intelligent conversation.

See, it's just this sort of attitude that bothers me. When I was growing up in my Catholic family, I always noticed how lazy and indifferent the majority of Catholics were. They just really did not seem to care at all about what their church taught, and all did what they wanted. Not all mind you, but most of them. They would not say the responses in mass, they would sit down when they were supposed to kneel because they got tired. The choir would sing, but nobody sang along. They got communion every week, even though you are only allowed to take it in a state of grace. They would eat before going to mass even though you were supposed to have fasted an hour before receiving communion. They never went to confession, saying they confessed to God and that was good enough for them. They would leave before mass was over so they could beat the traffic. A lot of them just showed up at mass when it was convenient for them, some only on Christmas and Easter (and not even on the other Holy Days of Obligation). A lot of them also tended to be liberals with political views that went far away from the official Catholic teachings. These people would never discuss religion out of church, never tried to convert people, acted downright ashamed of their faith.

Then of course there was the minority who actually did do things right, and they were probably even worse. These are the kind of people who would keep rosaries in their cars as good luck charms, who would actually talk to their little statues as though they could hear them, who would make the sign of the cross in vain at any moment of slight discomfort or distress.

Of course, the priests and were no better. They never corrected any of their congregation on these matters. No, they remained silent, and were ordered to by their superiors NOT to tell people if they sinned. The priests are taught to keep all their homilies to be happy and positive, lest they should lose any collection plate money. Catholics will actually call the office of their bishop if they feel their priest is being to preachy. They are spineless cowards, these priests and bishops, who ignore Christ's commands:


Matthew 18: 15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

These lazy men you have in charge, happy to sit in the lap of luxury on their parishioners dime, but not willing to stir the pot by telling the truth. Letting liberal priests and nuns who run more and more rampant spouting off all kinds of blasphemies like support of gay marriage, birth control, abortion, you name it. No wonder you people can't even find young people anymore who want to sign up for vocations!

See, it is not just on the basis of my interpretation of the Bible that I disagree with Catholics. It is their total attitude. Jesus said by its fruit we shall know a tree - well, I see no good fruit from the Catholic tree. I much happier being in a church that actually cares about what God wants. But anyway, as for your talk about the primacy of Peter in the church, and that Peter was held above the other Apostles, and that there can only be on Holy Catholic church, how do you interpret this:



Matthew 18: 18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (And yes, here He is talking to all of the Apostles, note the beginning of this discourse at the start of chapter 18).
19Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Any gathering of even two or three. Seems to support the Baptist position of small individual local churches more than the hierarchical global church.



Speaking of your church hierarchy, I'm a little confused by how the Pope is elected. It is by the will of God, am I correct? But the Cardinals vote for him. So the Cardinals decision is inspired by God? Yet as I understand the vote need only be 2/3 for a Pope to win. What of that other 1/3 of the Cardinals? Were they not inspired by God to make the right choose? Was Satan possessing them? Often even I hear they may take a long while to reach a decision until they get a majority vote. So some of those Cardinals must be switching their votes around? What took them so long to pick the guy God wanted? For that matter, why do they vote? Don't you guys use the picking up Matthias as the new apostle as the basis of Apostolic succession? If that's the case, why don't you do like they did and draw lots?

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: Difference from Catholics?

Enough, papist. You aren't going to ignore this simple question and continue spewing one blasphemy after another. Your church facilitates pedophilic behavior. YOUR POPE PROMOTES THE INSTITUTIONAL PROTECTION OF PEDOPHILES FROM PROSECUTION. This is all documented FACT.

Do you or do you not believe that God supports pedophilia, pedophiles and their protectors?

Afterwards we can address the rest of your dribble.

Scandals in the Church:

Jeremiah 32:32-35 - Old Testament leaders and priests offered child sacrifices
2 Kings 23:7 - Old Testament cult prostitutes in the temple of the Lord
Matthew 13:24-30 - parable of the weeds among the wheat
Matthew 13:47-48 - parable of the net that collects good and bad fish
Mark 14:43-46 - Judas betrayed Jesus
Mark 14:50 - they all left him and fled from the garden of Gethsemane
Mark 14:66-72 - Peter denied Our Lord, three times.
John 4:22 - In spite of their infidelity, salvation is from the Jews
John 20:24-25 - Thomas refused to believe in his resurrection from the dead
Romans 3:3-4 - will their infidelity nullify the fidelity of God? No!
2 Timothy 2:13 - if we are all unfaithful, God remains faithful

Yes. I believe God gives the Catholic Church his love. Because I believe He loves everyone even in their sins.
Look at these passages, these men knew the teachings of Christ better then you or I ever could. And still they sinned, they denied, the refused and were unfaithful. But what does this mean? Look at the sins of all the men that God used to write the Bible. Now tell me, will you reject them because of this? Pretend for a second that you CAN sin after you're "saved", as I believe, and all this makes sense. If men did not sin, there is no need for a church. Because they are all right on their way to heaven, yes?
I think because a few priests and even a couple popes were corrupt in no way nullifies the teachings of the Catholic Church. I do not support the inquisitions either, but I do not think that this means the Catholic Church is incorrect. You cannot judge the faith of all by the faith of a few.

I can completely understand your point. I never said that God must approve every action of the Catholic Church, after all, the can make mistakes. But dogmatic teachings have always been understood to be the work of God, and this scandal has no dogmatic teachings. It was an effort to cover up an embarrassment, just as any human being would want to do. This does not mean that Christ is not present in the Eucharist, or that Mary cannot be venerated, or that confessions be made through a priest, or that the pope be the Vicar of Christ. (Note, not Christ himself, as obviously He would have no support of such an issue, but a man, who can sin, who can make mistakes, unless speaking of dogma)

Now. Address the rest of my "dribble"

[Catholic - Not Christian]

Re: Difference from Catholics?

Actually, we owe it to the Eastern fish heads. Not the Western ones. Ours is based on the Greek not the the Latin vulgar.

That Greek Scripture being the Septuagint. See my other thread:
http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showt...t=29097&page=5