[Areyouhonestlyseriou]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

I suppose you just ignore anyone that doesn't share your absolutely mormonic beliefs, right? Considering the first post in this thread was just as long-winded...but that's ok, because you agreed with it! Way to be a sheep. I hope you savor your meaningless existence, because I sure will.

Also, "Unsaved trash?" Really?

I know you guys need something to make yourselves feel better about worshipping your common imaginary friend, but I don't think labeling all of those who are of a different belief system as "trash" is appropriate. Maybe you guys should try yoga. Or meditation. Or maybe you need a good punch in the piffleing head so you'll realize how braindead all of you really are.

This. Thank you!

[James Dewitt]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

Says one of the retards claiming that people who don't agree with your faith are ''unsaved scum'', if you'd see what this forum looks like to anyone with half a brain, you'd see why everyone is laughing at this discussion and doesn't take unilateral christian fanatics seriously.

You're giving a bad name to your religion.

Thats rich we are giving religion a bad name, what do you think you are doing for atheism, the least you could do is put a half ass fight.

[Raptoer]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

There are three fundamental problems with the experiments listed on the first page, and it appears as though no one has managed to show these problems in the past 200 pages or so, so I will.

Firstly a warning: there is a wall of text, I have attempted to break it up into sections, but it is rather large.

The first two are problems with Newtonian physics. The third is a misinterpretation of the results of your experiments.

First is a misunderstanding of the word "down". In the most general terms we have defined down to mean the direction with the most gravitational pull. Thus if you drop a ball, it will go in the direction of 'down'. If we consider the earth to be a sphere, then it down is towards the center of the sphere.

Gravitational pull is proportional to the size of each object being considered, and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between each object. Thus, the pull from the sun is much less than that of the earth, because even though it is much larger, it is also much further away.

If we consider earth to be flat and of a finite size, then the gravitational pull would be significantly different depending on your location. At the center of the flat earth down would be in the direction of the ground. However as you moved outwards, the direction of the gravitational pull would slowly change from going in the direction of the ground to the direction of the center of the flat earth.



The second problem is a misunderstanding of Newtonian physics. This relates to the ball or jumper not suddenly moving in relation to the earth (experiment 1). If the earth is moving, and you are on top of the earth, then you are moving as well. You cannot feel this because our bodies can only measure acceleration, not speed.
Additionally speed can only be measured by looking at how the distance between two objects varies with time. Thus, when calculating speed, you need to have something to compare your distance to. Normally we pick some location on the earth without even stating it.

To demonstrate this, lets simplify the situation. You are on board a train going 20mph. Your speed relative to the train is 0, the distance between you and some point on the train is constant. Your speed relative to the earth is 20mph, since every hour you will have traveled 20 miles. So now on board this train you jump, while in the air your speed relative to the train is still 0 (ignoring the fact that you move up and down, which is irrelevant for this problem). While in the air your speed relative to the earth is still 20mph, otherwise you would go flying to the back of the train.

The counter-example of jumping on the truck is flawed in that it does not account for the air above the truck. When you jump off the truck, you are moving relative to the air, thus you push up against it and slow down. If the air was moving the same speed as your truck (jumping up and down in a semi) then you would move straight up and down relative to the truck.



The third problem relates to experiment 3, going on top of a large structure. When you are in a jet you can see more of the earth than if you were on the ground, but you can see more. This is not proof that the world is flat, however in order to demonstrate why this in fact shows that the earth is curved you would have to go much higher than a jet. Say you were so high that you were able to see over every object. In this case you would only be able to see half of the earth, as the other half is on the other side of the earth. Now of course it's rather difficult to get high enough to actually see the curvature of the earth, so this one I cannot prove using words alone. You have misinterpreted the results of your experiment by constraining the heights at which can be tested.

Finally not really a problem, but a pet peeve of mine is the misuse of the term 'Theory'. In general use it means an unproven idea. In science however it means a model that describes the way that a system behaves, and why it behaves that way. A theory cannot become a law, as laws can only be discovered via mathematics or the direct result of experiments. For example there is the law of gravity which states how much gravitational force is for two objects at a certain distance, and the theory of gravity which attempts to answer why it behaves that way.


Before you ask, no I cannot quote any scriptures as proof, but the converse must be considered. If there are no scriptures that say it, is it inherently false?

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

There are three fundamental problems with the experiments listed on the first page, and it appears as though no one has managed to show these problems in the past 200 pages or so, so I will.

Apparently you didn't read those 200 pages.

Gravitational pull is proportional to the size of each object being considered, and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between each object. Thus, the pull from the sun is much less than that of the earth, because even though it is much larger, it is also much further away.

So according to you gravity is determined by difference in size and by distance. They you have just proven that Rev. Jim Osborne is correct and earth is flat, because according to you a small piece of paper should stick to a big balloon, which it doesn't.

While in the air your speed relative to the earth is still 20mph, otherwise you would go flying to the back of the train.

Which is what actually happens when you do that. It seems to me you never tried this.

Now of course it's rather difficult to get high enough to actually see the curvature of the earth, so this one I cannot prove

Which is yet more proof that you are wrong and God is right.

Finally not really a problem, but a pet peeve of mine is the misuse of the term 'Theory'. In general use it means an unproven idea. In science however it means a model that describes the way that a system behaves

Is this because scientists are unable to use a dictionary to look up the word "theory"?

If there are no scriptures that say it, is it inherently false?

Yes.

[Raptoer]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

So according to you gravity is determined by difference in size and by distance. They you have just proven that Rev. Jim Osborne is correct and earth is flat, because according to you a small piece of paper should stick to a big balloon, which it doesn't.

To be specific, gravitational pull is proportional to the product of the masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance.
The formula to find the gravitational pull is the product of the two masses, divided by the distance between the two object squared. (Times a constant, but that is unimportant for our purposes)

The balloon weighs about 3 grams, your small piece of paper weighs let's say a gram. Assuming the balloon is about 1.5 inches from the radius to the paper, we get a gravitational force of (3*1/(1.5^2)) (grams^2 / inches^2). After evaluation it is 4/3rds

On the other hand the earth weighs 6x10^27 grams, and your paper is about 2.5x10^8 inches from the center of the earth. Thus we get a graviational force of (6x10^27 * 1 / (2.5x10^8)^2) (grams^2 / inches^2)
After evaluation this comes out to be about 96,000,000,000.

So yes, your balloon does exert a gravitational force onto the paper, the earth's gravitational pull completely overwhelms that of the balloon. The earth's gravitational pulls is 7.2x10^10, or 72,000,000,000 times greater.

If there are no scriptures that say it, is it inherently false? Yes.

I doubt there are scriptures that describe the duck billed platypus, does this mean that it does not exist?

[Levi Jones]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

I doubt there are scriptures that describe the duck billed platypus, does this mean that it does not exist?

What does that have to do with the world being flat, like the Bible says it is?

[Raptoer]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

Which is what actually happens when you do that. It seems to me you never tried this.

This makes the assumption that the train is moving at a constant speed, which is commonly not the case. Lets pick a more extreme example of being on a plane. You drop a ball on a plane going 400mph. Does the ball go shooting out the back of the plane of 400mph?

Which is yet more proof that you are wrong and God is right.

My inability to prove it due to financial constraints does not make it false. Many people have been up high enough to see the curvature of the earth, and take pictures. However I have seen earlier that people here will not take those as proof. Thus I am unable to relate to an experience that we share.

Is this because scientists are unable to use a dictionary to look up the word "theory"?

No, there is an implied word in scientific contexts. The full term is 'scientific theory', however the word scientific is commonly dropped, either in translation from scientific context to every day context, or by the scientist writing who assumes that since it is in a scientific context, it will be understood as meaning scientific theory.

[Raptoer]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

What does that have to do with the world being flat, like the Bible says it is?

It is an example of the converse of requiring scripture citations for evidence.
If the scriptures say x, then it must be true.
conversely
if it is true, then the scriptures say it.

Since this is not the case, then being unable to cite scriptures does not disprove evidence.

Sorry for posting so often, and maybe double posting here. I did not see this post until after I had replied.

[A Follower]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

To be specific, gravitational pull is proportional to the product of the masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance.
The formula to find the gravitational pull is the product of the two masses, divided by the distance between the two object squared. (Times a constant, but that is unimportant for our purposes)

The balloon weighs about 3 grams, your small piece of paper weighs let's say a gram. Assuming the balloon is about 1.5 inches from the radius to the paper, we get a gravitational force of (3*1/(1.5^2)) (grams^2 / inches^2). After evaluation it is 4/3rds

On the other hand the earth weighs 6x10^27 grams, and your paper is about 2.5x10^8 inches from the center of the earth. Thus we get a graviational force of (6x10^27 * 1 / (2.5x10^8)^2) (grams^2 / inches^2)
After evaluation this comes out to be about 96,000,000,000.

So yes, your balloon does exert a gravitational force onto the paper, the earth's gravitational pull completely overwhelms that of the balloon. The earth's gravitational pulls is 7.2x10^10, or 72,000,000,000 times greater.

I doubt there are scriptures that describe the duck billed platypus, does this mean that it does not exist?

Here we go again. Another science believer who has not had a single independent thought in his life. Please open your mind, if only once. Just because your science textbook in school says earth weighs 6000000000000000000000000000 grams doesn't make it true. Your school also had Santa Claus visit near Christmas, do you also think Santa Claus is real? And please don't try and claim gravity proves earth has a weight which proves gravity. That kind of circular reasoning proves nothing at all.

Second you seem to be using Newton's gravity theory. Because it is a so-called "scientific theory" it is wrong. Einstein showed Newton is wrong. Einstein in turn has been proven wrong by other scientists.

That is what science is: an endless string of mistaken believes that get replaced by ever more crazy theories whenever someone bothers to show that the theory-du-jour is wrong. Just because scientists today hold the believe that earth is a ball doesn't mean they're right, tomorrow they may claim it is cubic and be equally dogmatic in defending that heresy. I wouldn't even be surprised if they came out saying that earth and everything else in the universe is flat...

Compare that to God: God hasn't had to change His mind about the shape of earth (or anything else) for over 6000 years. Unlike 99% of all scientists He has never been wrong. Please think before answering this: who should YOU trust?

[Robert Shayed]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

I've been a pastor for many years but never have i seen such disregard to such unholy faith. I joined this site because my dear friend had said someone used the Jesus in a unholy way. This makes me truly teed off that such blasphemy is going, i wish to try to convince you people that the earth is indeed round.

Why should I believe you, and images I find on the internet, when I can see the truth with my own eyes? Your words may try to persuade, but unless I can see it with my own eyes, your words are nothing but letters.

As for being a pastor, I wonder, do you disagree with the Bible? Because from your post, you don't agree with Landover's understanding of it, and because these methods are clearly infallible, you disagree with the Bible itself. Can you deny that to understand the bible as a child, a guardian of truth, would, is to understand it perfectly?

Why do you insist that it is blasphemy against Jesus Christ to tell the world the truth? The world is flat. I have studied mathematics and can tell you with utter confidence that the world must be flat.

I have been walking in a city with perfect grid streets laid out, and each corner is a perfect 90 degrees. When walking on the Earth's surface, I make right turns of exactly 90 degrees. I walk for 50 feet and make one right turn each of those four times, and I'm EXACTLY where I started. I walk for 100, 200, 400 feet, and the same. If I walk for 800 or 1600 feet each time, I'm exactly where I started. If I walk 3200 or even 6400 feet, over a mile in each direction, I am exactly where I started. There is no distance-preserving mapping from the sphere to the plane, and yet we make maps of the surface, and none of these things are possible if the earth is a ball, as you claim. Such a clear logical fallacy is best never repeated again.

[James Hutchins]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

To all you spherical earthers. If the Earth was a ball, going North would be uphill, going south would be downhill, east and west, flat. Now I have driven all over the US of A and that is simply not the case.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

Says one of the retards claiming that people who don't agree with your faith are ''unsaved scum'', if you'd see what this forum looks like to anyone with half a brain, you'd see why everyone is laughing at this discussion and doesn't take unilateral christian fanatics seriously.

You're giving a bad name to your religion.

You're mutilating the English language. Could you rewrite that so it makes sense?

Thats rich we are giving religion a bad name, what do you think you are doing for atheism, the least you could do is put a half ass fight.

Brother, let's give him a little credit.

I'm sure he's using the whole ass.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

To all you spherical earthers. If the Earth was a ball, going North would be uphill, going south would be downhill, east and west, flat. Now I have driven all over the US of A and that is simply not the case.

Exactly, and all rivers and streams would be flowing south. But that is not the case. Not only that, but the oceans would be pulled South as well and the entire Southern Hemisphere would be water. There would be no South America, Africa, or Australia! They would be underwater.

It's funny how there are mountains of evidence to support a flat earth and all of them are common-sense and able to be experienced first hand. For someone to "prove" a spherical Earth, they have to pull out arcane mathematical formulas and make up a bunch of terms.

[Lycia The Repentant]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

Compare that to God: God hasn't had to change His mind about the shape of earth (or anything else) for over 6000 years. Unlike 99% of all scientists He has never been wrong. Please think before answering this: who should YOU trust?

Umm, Mr. Follower sir, while I agree with almost everything you've posted, there are a few examples of God changing His mind...

"And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." Genesis 6:6-7

"Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." Exodus 32:10-14

"Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not." Jonah 3:9-10

Of course, this doesn't imply that that God was wrong in any way. He merely changed His mind from a right decision to an equally right decision.

[Raptoer]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

Second you seem to be using Newton's gravity theory. Because it is a so-called "scientific theory" it is wrong. Einstein showed Newton is wrong. Einstein in turn has been proven wrong by other scientists.

Einsteinium physics (general and special relativity) are an advancement upon Newtonian physics. It wasn't a complete re-write, but more like an upgrade to account for effects that aren't accounted for perfectly with Newtonian physics. Relativity hasn't been proven wrong either, as far as I know it is the best model that we have for describing what happens.

Newtonian gravity may not be perfect, but it's good enough for calculating the difference in gravitational pull from a balloon versus the gravitational pull of the earth.

Science is constantly evolving, we get better tools to measure smaller effects, and have to change the models to account for those.

please don't try and claim gravity proves earth has a weight which proves gravity. That kind of circular reasoning proves nothing at all.

I did not use gravity to prove that the earth has a weight. I suppose I assumed that gravity existed, and used that to show that the pull from a balloon is insignificant versus that of the earth. If I cannot even assume that gravity exists, then there is no way to show any of this.

What would you name the force that pulls objects 'down' if not gravity?

Just because scientists today hold the believe that earth is a ball doesn't mean they're right, tomorrow they may claim it is cubic and be equally dogmatic in defending that heresy. I wouldn't even be surprised if they came out saying that earth and everything else in the universe is flat...

I can't get to that whole article, as it is behind a paywall, and I've never studied gravity waves, however the universe being flat does not mean that the Earth is flat. (Unless of course you mean that the universe is infinitely thin, but that would mean we would have no concept of up). Earth isn't a perfect sphere either. It's actually an oblong spheroid. Since it is spinning along the equator, it kinda bulges out there, so the radius at the equator is slightly longer than the radius at the poles. No, this is not new, it's been known since the 1800's, but it can be approximated as a sphere for most calculations.

Compare that to God: God hasn't had to change His mind about the shape of earth (or anything else) for over 6000 years. Unlike 99% of all scientists He has never been wrong. Please think before answering this: who should YOU trust?

Just because our models change slightly does not automatically make them untrustworthy. An uncountable number of things that are really old have been proven incorrect. Ancient Chinese medicine has been around basically forever, but it's a load of crap. During the black death a bunch of Europeans thought that whipping themselves to near death would cure them of the plague. 2300 years ago the Greeks thought that disease was caused imbalances between the four humors (black bile, yellow bile, phlegm, and blood). This belief persisted until the 1800s or so when modern medicine came about.

I have been walking in a city with perfect grid streets laid out, and each corner is a perfect 90 degrees. When walking on the Earth's surface, I make right turns of exactly 90 degrees. I walk for 50 feet and make one right turn each of those four times, and I'm EXACTLY where I started. I walk for 100, 200, 400 feet, and the same. If I walk for 800 or 1600 feet each time, I'm exactly where I started. If I walk 3200 or even 6400 feet, over a mile in each direction, I am exactly where I started. There is no distance-preserving mapping from the sphere to the plane, and yet we make maps of the surface, and none of these things are possible if the earth is a ball, as you claim. Such a clear logical fallacy is best never repeated again.

Your sense of scale is off. A mile is insignificant compared to the size of the earth, and the effects of it being a sphere are insignificant. A map of the entire earth cannot be shown on a flat map without distortion, but a map of a city, or even of the continental US is accurate without accounting for this. So you've walked a mile. Now walk 10 miles, 100 miles, 10,000 miles. If you can walk 10,000 miles North, 10,000 miles East, 10,000 miles South, and 10,000 miles West (in that order) and end up in the EXACT same spot, then you have broken physics and proved that the earth is indeed flat.

How about looking at the curvature of the earth at the oceans? If the world was flat, then you could see across it to the other side. When you watch a boat sailing away into the horizon then the bottom will disappear from sight before the top; how does that happen with a flat earth?

I have this question for all of you, have you ever seen the edge of the earth? have pictures? If I were to pick a direction and travel perfectly straight, where would I find the edge of the world? If I do find the edge, then how thick is the world? can I travel to the other side?

Or perhaps when the Bible says "four corners of the earth" they mean the corners of the land masses they were currently on?

Why do you insist that it is blasphemy against Jesus Christ to tell the world the truth? The world is flat. I have studied mathematics and can tell you with utter confidence that the world must be flat.

What part of mathematics have you studied? Math is a HUGE subject. A PHD in math would know maybe two percent of all known math in the world. Perhaps you can show me a mathematical proof that the earth is flat?