The Forgiven and Loved Cult

[JennyD]

This site: http://www.forgivenandloved.com/

encourages users to post their sins, then assuming that they will be "forgiven and loved". Other users can vote the sins up in popularity.

What ever happened to having shame in one's sins??

[steveo]

Re: The Forgiven and Loved Cult

Jenny,

After reviewing the site, I believe it is both Biblical and a great idea. What do you think the following passage in James 5 is referring to?

James 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

Although I agree that our sins are shameful, where does it tell the believers to live in shame for our sins? On the contrary, I find we should confess our sins to Him who is faithful and just to forgive us.

Often, many Christians believe they are alone in their sins and http://www.forgivenandloved.com/ gives them an opportunity to see they are definitely not alone. How many times do we find some comfort in knowing that even David, the man after God's own heart, sinned and fell short many times. Or Paul, who does the very things he hates and does not want to do, instead of the good he knows he should (Romans 7).

Along with sharing what they have been forgiven for, forgivenandloved.com allows people to offer praises to God. It is mean to be a forum that in essence, praises God for who He is.

Steve

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: The Forgiven and Loved Cult

Tell me, Steveo, does God continue to forgive sins if we become Saved and then continue to sin?

Does God love those who spit in His face by continuing to sin?

What does the Bible tell you about that?

[Johnnyboy]

Re: The Forgiven and Loved Cult

Jenny,

After reviewing the site, I believe it is both Biblical and a great idea. What do you think the following passage in James 5 is referring to?

James 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

Although I agree that our sins are shameful, where does it tell the believers to live in shame for our sins? On the contrary, I find we should confess our sins to Him who is faithful and just to forgive us.

Often, many Christians believe they are alone in their sins and http://www.forgivenandloved.com/ gives them an opportunity to see they are definitely not alone. How many times do we find some comfort in knowing that even David, the man after God's own heart, sinned and fell short many times. Or Paul, who does the very things he hates and does not want to do, instead of the good he knows he should (Romans 7).

Along with sharing what they have been forgiven for, forgivenandloved.com allows people to offer praises to God. It is mean to be a forum that in essence, praises God for who He is.

Steve

Sir,

Simply put, it's a lousy idea because Ms. JennyD said it is. And SHE. IS. NEVER. WRONG. about stuff like this. Questions?

[steveo]

Re: The Forgiven and Loved Cult

Tell me, Steveo, does God continue to forgive sins if we become Saved and then continue to sin?

Does God love those who spit in His face by continuing to sin?

What does the Bible tell you about that?

The Bible absolutely shows us that we will continue to sin -- even after we have been saved. You can see in Romans 7, from my earlier post, that even the Apostle Paul continued to deal with sin. Here is the exact verses for you who are not familiar with them:

Romans 7:15-16, "For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good."

Here, Paul is making a case to show that the law is good because it reveals that we are sinners and in need of a Savior. We will not cease to sin completely until Jesus Christ has returned.

Since it appears that you lean to the extreme side of saying that believers no longer sin, you probably place me on the other side -- which isn't entirely true. Although I believe forgiven sinners will continue to sin, I do not believe they/we will live a life of habitual sin.

Using my previous post, since the points were not clearly understood, what about David as well? Here is a man who trusted in God greatly, was chosen by God to be His anointed king over Israel, and was called a man after His own heart, yet His life was riddle with failures (adultery, murder, etc).

Steve

[steveo]

Re: The Forgiven and Loved Cult

Sir,

Simply put, it's a lousy idea because Ms. JennyD said it is. And SHE. IS. NEVER. WRONG. about stuff like this. Questions?

It's very possible there is something I am missing regarding Ms. Jenny's beliefs. However, until proven from Scripture, whatever anyone says that contradicts God's special revelation (the Bible) is false.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: The Forgiven and Loved Cult

The Bible absolutely shows us that we will continue to sin -- even after we have been saved. You can see in Romans 7, from my earlier post, that even the Apostle Paul continued to deal with sin. Here is the exact verses for you who are not familiar with them:

Romans 7:15-16, "For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good."

Here, Paul is making a case to show that the law is good because it reveals that we are sinners and in need of a Savior. We will not cease to sin completely until Jesus Christ has returned.

I see you only read the parts of the Bible which confirm your sinful deathstyle choices.

1 John 3

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Since it appears that you lean to the extreme side of saying that believers no longer sin, you probably place me on the other side -- which isn't entirely true. Although I believe forgiven sinners will continue to sin, I do not believe they/we will live a life of habitual sin.

Yet you provide a site which encourages visitors to "vote up" the most popular sins? How is this not mere titillation? People gain prominence by posting the most interesting stories about things they should bear with shame, for sinning against God and spitting in the face of His great sacrifice of temporary death and self-resurrection!

Using my previous post, since the points were not clearly understood, what about David as well? Here is a man who trusted in God greatly, was chosen by God to be His anointed king over Israel, and was called a man after His own heart, yet His life was riddle with failures (adultery, murder, etc).

Steve

Did David come before or after the New Covenant?

Before Jesus, atonement was achieved through animal sacrifices. David was under the Old Covenant.

After Jesus, animal sacrifice was eliminated. So was sin, if you follow Him. If you don't, and continue to sin, you will go to Hell:

Hebrews 6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: The Forgiven and Loved Cult

whatever anyone says that contradicts God's special revelation (the Bible) is false.

Well said. So, why do you contradict the Bible? Are you of the devil, attempting to lead souls to Hell through your lies?

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: The Forgiven and Loved Cult

Jenny,

After reviewing the site, I believe it is both Biblical and a great idea. What do you think the following passage in James 5 is referring to?[Blah, Blah, Blah... Steve

Jas:5:16: Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

It is of little use quoting God's Word, if you fail to quote a germane passage.

Sister JennyD's concern is for the shame connected with repentance, where as your reply seems to indicate that you can tell anyone about your sins and that will help.

It clearly will not! If you look at the whole of the chapter, you will see the manner in which James addresses the gathering and also who is there. You will also see that "The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

I do NOT think that a load of internet Troll-tards of questionable faith add up to a "righteous man" or availeth anything.

Having said that, you appear somewhat familiar with some of the verses of the Bible - all you need is the polishing that only Landover can give...

Continue posting, but do try to properly address the question.

[steveo]

Re: The Forgiven and Loved Cult

You claim that I only read the parts of Scripture I want, yet you must tear out many pages to support your claim. Did you not read earlier in the book when John, speaking to believers, states "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8). By the statement of that verse, I would have to declare that the truth is not in you.

1 John 3:6-10 is oft claimed to support that true believers are perfect and will never sin. However, that claim contradicts 1 John 1:8 and Paul's words in Romans 7 (and we both know the Bible has no contradictions). Instead, what the passage is communicating is that anyone who consistently abides in Christ perfectly does not sin -- unfortunately, as sinners, we are unable to do that. If you believe you can, I pray that the Spirit will convict you heavily of your sin to make this known.

The site does not provide the "vote up" option to make light of the seriousness of the individual sins, but instead to reveal the sins that most believers struggle with. This is also not covering the fact that it also shows the praises and prayers of God that most people agreed with. Perhaps a different rendering of the word 'vote' would change your thinking.

David came before the New Covenant was ratified, but I ask you how was David counted righteous? Was it his strict adherence to the law or because of the sacrifice of bulls or sheep? Obviously not. It is the same of Abraham -- whose faith was accredited to him as righteousness. Both OT saints and NT saints are saved the same way -- BY FAITH -- and the blood Jesus Christ covers them all.

Your mention of the Hebrews 6 passage also calls into question your interpretation. "Falling away" is not referring to sinning -- falling away is referring to no longer believing. This is similar to what Paul writes in 1 Timothy 4:1, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils."

I hope this helps explain my view -- I know you will respond accordingly and I can't wait

In Christ

I see you only read the parts of the Bible which confirm your sinful deathstyle choices.

1 John 3

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


Yet you provide a site which encourages visitors to "vote up" the most popular sins? How is this not mere titillation? People gain prominence by posting the most interesting stories about things they should bear with shame, for sinning against God and spitting in the face of His great sacrifice of temporary death and self-resurrection!


Did David come before or after the New Covenant?

Before Jesus, atonement was achieved through animal sacrifices. David was under the Old Covenant.

After Jesus, animal sacrifice was eliminated. So was sin, if you follow Him. If you don't, and continue to sin, you will go to Hell:

Hebrews 6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

[steveo]

Re: The Forgiven and Loved Cult

Who is my brother, and who is my sister? Those who do the will of the Father and believe in Jesus Christ are my brother. The site is for Christian brethren although the audience may extend to anyone with an Internet connection. And like the words of Jesus -- through the love and forgiveness we show one another, the world will know His disciples --

John 13:35 - "By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

Jas:5:16: Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

It is of little use quoting God's Word, if you fail to quote a germane passage.

Sister JennyD's concern is for the shame connected with repentance, where as your reply seems to indicate that you can tell anyone about your sins and that will help.

It clearly will not! If you look at the whole of the chapter, you will see the manner in which James addresses the gathering and also who is there. You will also see that "The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

I do NOT think that a load of internet Troll-tards of questionable faith add up to a "righteous man" or availeth anything.

Having said that, you appear somewhat familiar with some of the verses of the Bible - all you need is the polishing that only Landover can give...

Continue posting, but do try to properly address the question.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: The Forgiven and Loved Cult

You claim that I only read the parts of Scripture I want, yet you must tear out many pages to support your claim. Did you not read earlier in the book when John, speaking to believers, states "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8). By the statement of that verse, I would have to declare that the truth is not in you.

We were all with/living in sin before we were Saved©. After, we are sinless.

Anyone who claims to have lived a life without sin indeed is a liar.

1 John 3:6-10 is oft claimed to support that true believers are perfect and will never sin. However, that claim contradicts 1 John 1:8 and Paul's words in Romans 7 (and we both know the Bible has no contradictions).

I see, so now you are saying that God contradicts Himself in His Word!

Once again, you are twisting Scripture to suit yourself. How convenient!

The site does not provide the "vote up" option to make light of the seriousness of the individual sins, but instead to reveal the sins that most believers struggle with.

Right.

This is also not covering the fact that it also shows the praises and prayers of God that most people agreed with. Perhaps a different rendering of the word 'vote' would change your thinking.

I thought it wasn't your site, steveo. You "checked it out". Now, it appears that you admit to being the host. Which is it?

Is lying a sin, steveo?

David came before the New Covenant was ratified, but I ask you how was David counted righteous? Was it his strict adherence to the law or because of the sacrifice of bulls or sheep? Obviously not. It is the same of Abraham -- whose faith was accredited to him as righteousness. Both OT saints and NT saints are saved the same way -- BY FAITH -- and the blood Jesus Christ covers them all.

Please show me where the Bible says this. Chapter and verse, please.

By the way, are you a Catholic?

Your mention of the Hebrews 6 passage also calls into question your interpretation. "Falling away" is not referring to sinning -- falling away is referring to no longer believing.

Only one who does not truly believe could possibly reject God's sacrifice and choose a sinful lifestyle over a Godly.

You can't have it both ways, steveo. You can't be a Christian and continue to sin, because continuing to sin is a rejection of God and demonstrates that you have not truly repented of your sinful, filthy human nature.

I'm sorry that you have dedicated your website to convincing people that there is a false, hippie "love god" who forgives everything, no matter how many times you sin. I'm sorry that you think that everyone who says, "Lord, Lord" will get into Heaven. God says otherwise:

Matthew 7

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[steveo]

Re: The Forgiven and Loved Cult

We were living with sin before we were saved and when we believed we were justified (declared righteous) before God because of the blood of Jesus Christ.

You claim that I am twisting Scripture, yet when the Bible states 'if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us,' you don't twist it -- you simply DENY it.

Genesis 15:6 "And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. "

Romans 4:1-4 "What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt."

I am not hosting the site -- but I know who is.

Paul was a Christian and continued to sin...

--

We were all with/living in sin before we were Saved©. After, we are sinless.

Anyone who claims to have lived a life without sin indeed is a liar.


I see, so now you are saying that God contradicts Himself in His Word!

Once again, you are twisting Scripture to suit yourself. How convenient!

Right.

I thought it wasn't your site, steveo. You "checked it out". Now, it appears that you admit to being the host. Which is it?

Is lying a sin, steveo?


Please show me where the Bible says this. Chapter and verse, please.

By the way, are you a Catholic?


Only one who does not truly believe could possibly reject God's sacrifice and choose a sinful lifestyle over a Godly.

You can't have it both ways, steveo. You can't be a Christian and continue to sin, because continuing to sin is a rejection of God and demonstrates that you have not truly repented of your sinful, filthy human nature.

I'm sorry that you have dedicated your website to convincing people that there is a false, hippie "love god" who forgives everything, no matter how many times you sin. I'm sorry that you think that everyone who says, "Lord, Lord" will get into Heaven. God says otherwise:

Matthew 7

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[JennyD]

Re: The Forgiven and Loved Cult

Sister JennyD's concern is for the shame connected with repentance, where as your reply seems to indicate that you can tell anyone about your sins and that will help.

It clearly will not! If you look at the whole of the chapter, you will see the manner in which James addresses the gathering and also who is there. You will also see that "The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

I do NOT think that a load of internet Troll-tards of questionable faith add up to a "righteous man" or availeth anything.

Having said that, you appear somewhat familiar with some of the verses of the Bible - all you need is the polishing that only Landover can give...

Continue posting, but do try to properly address the question.

You're absolutely right, Brother Bathfire, about my concern.

Christians are not to be proud of sins and put them up on websites for strangers to read about! Our brothers and sisters are not the God-mockers who would take that website and say, "Look, the Christians sin, they're hypocrites!"

Our brothers and sisters are our True Christian(tm) Saved Brothers and Sisters in Christ here at Landover!

I see, Brother Bathfire, that you and Brother Rodimer are doing an admirable job teaching this . . . person . . . about God's Word, and what the Bible really says. He's clearly caught up in the "all-loving hippie lurve god" fantasy so prevalent among False Christian churches today.

I am learning from your discussion as well, and look forward to seeing what else you fine gentlemen can teach me!

[steveo]

Re: The Forgiven and Loved Cult

JennyD,

1 Corinthians 14:34 - "Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says."

You're absolutely right, Brother Bathfire, about my concern.

Christians are not to be proud of sins and put them up on websites for strangers to read about! Our brothers and sisters are not the God-mockers who would take that website and say, "Look, the Christians sin, they're hypocrites!"

Our brothers and sisters are our True Christian™ Saved Brothers and Sisters in Christ here at Landover!

I see, Brother Bathfire, that you and Brother Rodimer are doing an admirable job teaching this . . . person . . . about God's Word, and what the Bible really says. He's clearly caught up in the "all-loving hippie lurve god" fantasy so prevalent among False Christian churches today.

I am learning from your discussion as well, and look forward to seeing what else you fine gentlemen can teach me!