[OnYourKnees]

Re: Masturbation

if you read bobby joe's post then you will realise that that is exactly what he is suggesting. and anyway, the fact that so much of this site seems to be devoted to backing up the fact that god does not forgive easily, that surely validates my point rather than refutes it. As i have said many times now, i believe god is a forgiving god.

Sorry, I must have missed it in the Wall O' Text.

Please show us which parts of the Bible you believe support your belief, and also why those parts trump the rest of the Bible.

Or do you just imagine God the way you want Him to be, and project those attributes onto Him, like most False Christians?

[stairway to heaven]

Re: Masturbation

I defy you to give any information about the alleged harms that Agent Orange had on our Godly and brave soldiers. It's really your word against mine, and I believe that most of America agrees with me.

This is a quote from wikipedia on the subject, pretty convincing evidence?

Agent Orange, given its name from the 55 US gallon orange-striped barrels it was shipped in, is a roughly 1:1 mixture of two phenoxy herbicides in ester form, 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) and 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T). These herbicides were developed during the 1940s by independent teams in England and the United States for use in controlling broad-leaf plants.

It was later learned that a dioxin, 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin (TCDD), is produced as a byproduct of the manufacture of 2,4,5-T, and was thus present in any of the herbicides that used it. The National Toxicology Program has classified TCDD to be a human carcinogen, frequently associated with soft-tissue sarcoma, Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, Hodgkin's disease and chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL). 2,4,5-T has since been banned for use in the US and many other countries

As for the belief that most of America is behind you, i believe that most of America would rather forget the horrific defeat than glorify the destruction of their own soldiers.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Masturbation

Staircase, I don't have the time to wade through all of your ungodly babble right now..
Give me the bullet points of what part of the Bible you disagree with, and why.

Btw.. It's God with a capital G, heathen. Show the utmost high some respect, will you?

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Masturbation

But that seems to be a paradox of the highest order, many of the forums i have read so far on the site talk of god torturing people in eternal hellfire and yet if he finds evil so repugnant then why do we exist at all (i will accept that humans seem to be fundamentally evil, you only have to look at the amount of inventions in the 20th century and then compare them with the list of inventions that did not harm the environment to figure that one out) For us to exist it would seem that, somewhere along the line, god must forgive us for some, if not all of our sins, however, almost everything i read on this site is stating that god is not a forgiving god. Personally i believe that god is, in essence, forgiveness, and this only seems to prove my beliefs

I think you are only seeing part of the issue friend, God is forgiveness, yes, God is love, yes, but God is also a man of war and God is vengeance. God can be all of these things because He is not like we are. That is why we true Christian celebrate all of His works.

Consider the story of the Flood; was it two or was it seven animals that Noah took with him. The answer is it was all of the above. How can this be? The limitless power of God.

Do not try to set boundaries on God friend!

[stairway to heaven]

Re: Masturbation

Sorry, I must have missed it in the Wall O' Text.

Please show us which parts of the Bible you believe support your belief, and also why those parts trump the rest of the Bible.

Or do you just imagine God the way you want Him to be, and project those attributes onto Him, like most False Christians?

the sheer fact that we all exist after the slight misunderstanding in the garden of eden (apple+snake=bad idea) is probably one of the most fundamental examples of gods forgiveness of our inherent evil. May i also remind you of the lords prayer, forgive us our sins and forgive those who trespass against us, surely this implies that god is in the habit of forgiving people their sins. The fact that not all people take the bible literally is not necessarily a bad thing. If someone decides to interpret the bible as saying that god is all-forgiving and then decides to try to emulate him and becomes a better person in the eyes of the lord because of it, how can we say that this is a bad thing?

[stairway to heaven]

Re: Masturbation

Staircase, I don't have the time to wade through all of your ungodly babble right now..
Give me the bullet points of what part of the Bible you disagree with, and why.

Btw.. It's God with a capital G, heathen. Show the utmost high some respect, will you?

Once again, please give me intelligent thoughts on an intelligent point rather than mere insults. I do not have a problem with the bible as such, but rather the literal interpretation of it which you insist on perpetrating, which of course brings with it all the outdated and long disproved views and ideas of the time at which the bible was written

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Masturbation

Once again, please give me intelligent thoughts on an intelligent point rather than mere insults. I do not have a problem with the bible as such, but rather the literal interpretation of it which you insist on perpetrating, which of course brings with it all the outdated and long disproved views and ideas of the time at which the bible was written

So you agree that the Bible is the word of God, but you consider it "outdated"?
And you say WE aren't intelligent?
How could God's own words be outdated? Did He tell you so? Hardly!
Or do you simply WANT them to be outdated, that's it, isn't it?

If you can't trust the Bible, then WHAT can you trust? Your own imagination? That's rich!
Without the Bible, you wouldn't have known of any Jesus who wasn't a mexican, and that's a FACT.

Jesus didn't say: "Accept a little of what I say, pick something, and you'll enter heaven."
What He did say was:

But he answered and said, It is written,
Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Matthew 4:4

[stairway to heaven]

Re: Masturbation

I think you are only seeing part of the issue friend, God is forgiveness, yes, God is love, yes, but God is also a man of war and God is vengeance. God can be all of these things because He is not like we are. That is why we true Christian celebrate all of His works.

Consider the story of the Flood; was it two or was it seven animals that Noah took with him. The answer is it was all of the above. How can this be? The limitless power of God.

Do not try to set boundaries on God friend!

but to have any effect on our world, god must be a presence in our universe, and if god is a presence in our universe then he must be responsible in some form to the laws of physics, which state, among many other things that no power is limitless, not even the power of massive entities such as the sun. All power fades and dies. The laws also state that nothing physical can be paradoxical in nature, the only way to get around this law is if god was an electron, in which case he/it would be in an orbit around an atom or in another orbit but nowhere in between the two(this is the law of quantum physics, but i refuse to explain it now!) Therefore, god can either have one nature and have one set of responses to sinful humans or another nature and another set of responses.

[Wash O'Hanley]

Re: Masturbation

This is a quote from wikipedia on the subject, pretty convincing evidence?

Agent Orange, given its name from the 55 US gallon orange-striped barrels it was shipped in, is a roughly 1:1 mixture of two phenoxy herbicides in ester form, 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) and 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T). These herbicides were developed during the 1940s by independent teams in England and the United States for use in controlling broad-leaf plants.

It was later learned that a dioxin, 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin (TCDD), is produced as a byproduct of the manufacture of 2,4,5-T, and was thus present in any of the herbicides that used it. The National Toxicology Program has classified TCDD to be a human carcinogen, frequently associated with soft-tissue sarcoma, Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, Hodgkin's disease and chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL). 2,4,5-T has since been banned for use in the US and many other countries

As for the belief that most of America is behind you, i believe that most of America would rather forget the horrific defeat than glorify the destruction of their own soldiers.

Your argument is void because you sited Wicca-pedia. That website is so slanted the words almost slide off the page! Find a more credible website please.

[Rev. Dr. Davidson]

Re: Masturbation

At least dignify an intelligent point with an intelligent answer. In response to the 'women drivers are better' criticism, all you need to do is call up an insurance company, stating that you are a man and asking for a quote, then call up the same company, saying that you are a woman and looking for a quote, i am sure that the difference between the two replies will more than prove my point

Trying to sneak those points in at the end of your 'argument' completely negated the whole point of it. I didn't feel that your rant merited an intelligent reply. Polititions, especially demoncrats, use the same tactics. They talk and talk, and then try to slip something by the people.

Do you know why women are lower risk for car insurance? I'll tell you. Because fewer women drive. If you took those same statistics and applied them to equal numbers, women would be the higher risk. You can compare 3 million male drivers to 1 million female drivers.

I have no problem debating intelligently with unsaved folk. I do ask that they address the issues at hand without slipping pointless measures in.


Also, I would side with Brother Wash. He was there.

[stairway to heaven]

Re: Masturbation

So you agree that the Bible is the word of God, but you consider it "outdated"?
And you say WE aren't intelligent?
How could God's own words be outdated? Did He tell you so? Hardly!
Or do you simply WANT them to be outdated, that's it, isn't it?

If you can't trust the Bible, then WHAT can you trust? Your own imagination? That's rich!
Without the Bible, you wouldn't have known of any Jesus who wasn't a mexican, and that's a FACT.

Jesus didn't say: "Accept a little of what I say, pick something, and you'll enter heaven."
What He did say was:

But he answered and said, It is written,
Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Matthew 4:4

I would always rather trust my imagination and science (which can be proved using equiptment bought in my local hardware store) over a book which has had 2000 years to evolve and to be added to by all who felt the urge. I put it to you that the bible, by the time king james did the good deed, was so polluted with the views of others, that the voice of god was barely distinguishable from its pages. There was an article in national geographic about a judas gospel which had been found in some caves in egypt, this gospel tells a completely different version of judas's role in the crucifixion, now of course we dont know who to believe, but it certainly casts doubt over the present revelation of events.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Masturbation

I would always rather trust my imagination

He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool:
But whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
Proverbs 28:26

and science (which can be proved using equiptment bought in my local hardware store)

And how do you know that that equpiment produces correct results?
You don't! But some scientists tell you so.. And you trust them blindly.
You're so fooled by satan you don't even demand evidence for whatever absurdity he throws at you.
It's quite sad really.

over a book which has had 2000 years to evolve and to be added to by all who felt the urge. I put it to you that the bible, by the time king james did the good deed, was so polluted with the views of others, that the voice of god was barely distinguishable from its pages.

The King James Bible was dictated by God Himself to James scribes, it is the infallible word of God.

And you didn't even care about my main argument..
Without the Bible you wouldn't even believe in ONE God, you would probably still believe in several (FALSE) gods.
If you deny the Bible as authentic, then you deny God and you deny Christianity as authentic.

There was an article in national geographic about a judas gospel which had been found in some caves in egypt, this gospel tells a completely different version of judas's role in the crucifixion, now of course we dont know who to believe, but it certainly casts doubt over the present revelation of events.

Yeah, it's alot "nicer" isn't it? I'm sure of it.. It probably is all liberal, no doubt.
Written by satan, most likely.

Are you really that deluded that you rather believe a pretty lie over the truth, just because the truth doesn't suit your own views?
God doesn't change His rules to appease you (or anyone), get over your big ego, you homer.
You aren't special, and without Jesus you're going to BURN forever in HELL.

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Masturbation

the sheer fact that we all exist after the slight misunderstanding in the garden of eden (apple+snake=bad idea) is probably one of the most fundamental examples of gods forgiveness of our inherent evil.

I thought you didn't take the Bible literally, yet here you are, paraphrasing the Garden of Eden story.

So, you're saying that God, who is omniscient, had a bad idea? You're calling God foolish?

Either God IS omniscient, and therefore knew that putting the tree and the chatty talking serpent in the garden with the naive humans who didn't know right from wrong would lead to their committing a sin (which they wouldn't know was a sin until after they'd committed it and then knew right from wrong), or God is an idiot.

Which is it?

You reference "our inherent evil". Did you not earlier say that Creation was perfect? If Creation, and therefore Adam and Eve, were perfect, how could they be "inherently evil"?

Do you believe that God created humans to be evil? Does this not obviate your liberal Christian belief in an all-love hippie God?

May i also remind you of the lords prayer, forgive us our sins and forgive those who trespass against us, surely this implies that god is in the habit of forgiving people their sins.

I thought it implied that humans were in the habit of sinning against God, therefore requiring, oh, let's say a "book" which might tell them what is or is not a sin against God.

Do you know where I might find such a book?

The fact that not all people take the bible literally is not necessarily a bad thing. If someone decides to interpret the bible as saying that god is all-forgiving and then decides to try to emulate him and becomes a better person in the eyes of the lord because of it, how can we say that this is a bad thing?

If that person is leading others along this rosy path to Hellfire with lies about God, then I'd say it's definitely a bad thing.

You see, praying to your own imaginings of who God is, rather than who He Himself says He is, is a form of idolatry. A surefire ticket on the fast train to Hell.

How can you hate your fellow man enough to wish them sent to Hell?

I would always rather trust my imagination and science (which can be proved using equipment bought in my local hardware store) over a book which has had 2000 years to evolve and to be added to by all who felt the urge. I put it to you that the bible, by the time king james did the good deed, was so polluted with the views of others, that the voice of god was barely distinguishable from its pages.

That'd be why God re-dictated it to James' scribes, as described by our good Brother Jack Chick.

There was an article in national geographic about a judas gospel which had been found in some caves in egypt, this gospel tells a completely different version of judas's role in the crucifixion, now of course we dont know who to believe, but it certainly casts doubt over the present revelation of events.

I've yet to see any serious Biblical scholar take this any more seriously than the Gospel of Thomas, written 200+ years after the fact.

Any number of writings exist which have been deemed unreliable. Why would you take the word of something which God did not deem necessary to include in the KJV1611 when He re-dictated it?

That's just silly.

[stairway to heaven]

Re: Masturbation

I am too tired to formulate a long answer filled with all the reasons why you are a naive people who do nothing but follow the path to rightousness. However, i leave you with a thought. In Auschwitz during the 2nd world war, jews were divided into 2 groups, one group would take path A, they were told that this led to the concentration (work) camp (which was true) The other group would follow path B, which led to 'the shower blocks' (or birkenau as it is now more often known) and certain death. If this situation was translated into present day life, what group do you think you would be in? Would you be absent-mindedly following each other down a path to certain death? Probably.

Faith is good. It is what people cling to in times of hardship, however, when a people such as you stumble blindly onto the stage of life (Gods hand probably slipped) and begin preaching the words (well actually every single word) of the bible, that is when faith becomes a joke. I am from England, your homeland (although of course like good Americans you insist on calling English American and then defiling it with spelling errors) and please permit me to tell you that you are a joke. Everything you support is laughable to us. You have managed to pollute your faith in such an irredemable way that christianity is now seen as the laughing stock of the global faiths.

What do you think is going to happen? God will descend from the heavens and smite your enemies? Somehow i doubt it my friends, I look around me and i see wars and hunger and depression and misery and above all people like you, the perpetrators of such atrocities and i realise that god left this world a long time ago. And in the end, will it be god that finds a cure for aids? No, it will be scientists, will it be god who cancels third worls debt? No, it will be economists, so tell me, what use is god in this world, he has become obsolete.

[Wash O'Hanley]

Re: Masturbation

He's right, brown people that no one cares about are starving and killing each other. God has been disproven... To the adult video store!

I hate to break it to you but my wife and I just got back from Applebees where I had a full chicken and a rack of baby-back ribs. I even threw half of it out. No one is starving.