[shert]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

OnYourKnees:

I misused words in my last post. You are right, God doesn't hope. What I meant is that God can do everything, but won't do things. For example, everyone can swing a bat, but you will not swing a bat if your friend is standing in front of you, because thats a murder.

Have you seen a movie called Minority Report?? Basically, its a movie about a future machine that the police uses to find out crimes before they are even committed. So, the police stops those people who are about to commit the crime and punishes them.

I believe that God is omniscient, but He is also fair. He will not punish us for a crime that never happened. If we are punished, then its because we CHOSE to commit a crime.

Again, you said: God created Hell to punish those who sin.
I still don't understand the sin the bastards committed??

When I read your explanations about point 2, I basically see that you are following something that doesn't make sense to you. You found a book, you are following it with no questions asked, even if it doesn't make sense to you or "seems not fair".

In point 3: God knows the outcomes, thats right. But, what outcomes?? The outcomes to the chances you were given that determines you destination to Hell or Heaven. Thats what I meant by chances. So, even though God knows the outcomes, you will still be given the chances, because if you didn't get the chances, then the outcomes will never happen.

In point 4: I am talking about you guys saying "Have Faith" and believe in God's judgment. What I am saying is that how can I have faith in contradicting things!! All religions can set some weird rules, e.g. eating babies, and say "Have Faith" and just do what this book says.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

OnYourKnees:

I misused words in my last post. You are right, God doesn't hope. What I meant is that God can do everything, but won't do things. For example, everyone can swing a bat, but you will not swing a bat if your friend is standing in front of you, because thats a murder.

Have you seen a movie called Minority Report?? Basically, its a movie about a future machine that the police uses to find out crimes before they are even committed. So, the police stops those people who are about to commit the crime and punishes them

I believe that God is omniscient, but He is also fair. He will not punish us for a crime that never happened. If we are punished, then its because we CHOSE to commit a crime. .

Naturally God is fair. God creates us knowing when, were and how we will sin and then waits for us to do it. Then He punish us. This is perfect justice.

Again, you said: God created Hell to punish those who sin.
I still don't understand the sin the bastards committed??

They chose to be born out of wedlock. It is like Blacks, they chose to be born as an descendent of Ham, son of Noah, so therefore they must be punished for Ham’s crime.

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

OnYourKnees:

I misused words in my last post. You are right, God doesn't hope. What I meant is that God can do everything, but won't do things. For example, everyone can swing a bat, but you will not swing a bat if your friend is standing in front of you, because thats a murder.

Have you seen a movie called Minority Report?? Basically, its a movie about a future machine that the police uses to find out crimes before they are even committed. So, the police stops those people who are about to commit the crime and punishes them.

I believe that God is omniscient, but He is also fair. He will not punish us for a crime that never happened. If we are punished, then its because we CHOSE to commit a crime.

Yes, but God knows in advance that sinners will make that choice. If they chose not to sin, then God would be wrong, which would be a logical impossibility. So can they really be said to have any kind of a choice at all?

Again, you said: God created Hell to punish those who sin.
I still don't understand the sin the bastards committed??

When I read your explanations about point 2, I basically see that you are following something that doesn't make sense to you. You found a book, you are following it with no questions asked, even if it doesn't make sense to you or "seems not fair".

In point 4: I am talking about you guys saying "Have Faith" and believe in God's judgment. What I am saying is that how can I have faith in contradicting things!! All religions can set some weird rules, e.g. eating babies, and say "Have Faith" and just do what this book says.

Do you have faith in the Qu'ran? Do you have faith in Allah?

[shert]

Re: Retardeds, will they go to heaven?

Bobby Joe:

This makes perfect sense what you said here: "Naturally God is fair. God creates us knowing when, were and how we will sin and then waits for us to do it. Then He punish us. This is perfect justice."

However, you said "They chose to be born out of wedlock. It is like Blacks, they chose to be born as an descendent of Ham, son of Noah, so therefore they must be punished for Ham’s crime."
How do you choose to be born bastard?? You didn't even exist!! Sometimes you don't even know that you are a bastard!! Now, where is the choice you talked about??

Also, are you saying that all black people will go to Hell??

From my understanding, some of you True Christians were gay or were involved in some gay experience. Then, they were saved and became True Christians, This is fair, giving someone a chance. In bastards case, there is no chance given whatsoever. How can you believe that "Naturally God is fair" if He punishes people for a sin they didn't even exist when it happened!!


Brother Temperance:
Lets review what you wrote here:
"Yes, but God knows in advance that sinners will make that choice. If they chose not to sin, then God would be wrong, which would be a logical impossibility. So can they really be said to have any kind of a choice at all?"
1 - You said "sinners will make that choice?": that means, they had a chance and made a choice. Then, the judgment was based on that choice.
2 - You said "So can they really be said to have any kind of a choice at all": I would say, Yes. They had a choice, and God judged them by the choice they made.
In the bastard situation, where is the choice they made that God judged them by??

Then you said:"Do you have faith in the Qu'ran? Do you have faith in Allah?", well, we are not discussing Islam here. But, the answer is Yes. But that doesn't mean that I see something that is "seems unfair" and I don't understand why God say something here and contradicts somewhere else and just sit quite and not ask question.
I believe in Qu'ran and Allah because everything made sense, even before I became religious.
You see, I didn't go through the "You have to be Saved to understand", then listen to "I don't understand God's way" and "I know it seems unfair" from True Christians.

[Rev. Dr. Davidson]

Re: Retardeds, will they go to heaven?

Shert,
You were born out of wedlock to some Belgian whore weren't you? You fight and fight in this thread, but you are arguing with the wrong people. You need to take your complaints directly to God.

A bastard is a bastard and is damned to hell... End of story. How many ways can people explain this fact? If the bastard defiles some poor woman, and gets children on her, those children are damned. So on and so forth for ten genertions. I'm not sure about Christian spouses who didn't know they'd married a bastard yet.

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Retardeds, will they go to heaven?

In bastards case, there is no chance given whatsoever. How can you believe that "Naturally God is fair" if He punishes people for a sin they didn't even exist when it happened!!

You still don't really understand omniscience, do you?

God already knew all your choices before your PARENTS existed, before your GREAT-GRANDPARENTS existed.

When God created the universe over 6,000 years ago, He knew that "your friend" would be condemned to Hell for his sins, and allowed "your friend" to be born a bastard, in an act of divine mercy. Since He already knew that "your friend" would be condemned for his sins, it made sense for "your friend" to be born as a bastard as well, so "your friend" would not have to go through life trying to be Saved, when he could not.

God created "your friend" already knowing that "your friend" was condemned to eternal Hellfire. Therefore, God created "your friend" for the sole purpose of someone to torture.

Does that not make sense?

What does the Quran say about bastards?

[shert]

Re: Retardeds, will they go to heaven?

Dr. Davidson:
Your assumption is wrong.
I fully understand your ruling about bastards, but thats not what we are discussing here. We are discussing whether your God is truly fair by studying this rule.

OnYourKnee:
You didn't have to explain Omniscient again, I understand it. But you don't understand me here, let me explain myself again.

When was this bastard friend condemned??
1 - Was it after he sinned??
2 - Was it before he sinned??

If you say he was condemned after he sinned, then I would agree with you. That God is fair and He condemns people when they sin.

If you say he was condemned before he sinned, then he was judged before he ACTUALLY COMMITTED the sin!!

You asked about bastard in Islam, here is a quotation:

************************************************** *******
Question:
Can an illegitimate person enter Paradise if he obeys Allaah? Is there any sin on him or not?

Answer:
An illegitimate child does not bear any sin because of his parents’ having committed the sin of zinaa (unlawful sexual intercourse), because that was not of his doing. They bear their own sin, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):
“… He gets reward for that (good) which he has earned, and he is punished for that (evil) which he has earned…” [al-Baqarah 2:286]
“… no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another…” [al-An’aam 6:164]
With regard to his ultimate destiny, the illegitimate person is like anyone else: if he obeys Allaah and does righteous deeds, and dies as a Muslim, then Paradise will be his; if he disobeys Allaah and dies as a kaafir, then he will be one of the people of Hell. If he mixes righteous deeds and bad deeds, and dies as a Muslim, then his fate is up to Allaah: if He wills, He will forgive him, if He wills, He will punish him, and his eventual admission to Paradise will be by the Grace and Mercy of Allaah. As for the hadeeth which says that an illegitimate person will not enter Paradise, this is a fabrication (falsely attributed to the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)). And Allaah knows best.
************************************************** *******

Now which God sounds fair??
The one who punishes people for a sin they never played any role in, OR the God who punishes people for the sin they only choose to commit??

[Rev. Dr. Davidson]

Re: Retardeds, will they go to heaven?

We are discussing whether your God is truly fair by studying this rule.

God was more than fair to let people live after their betrayal in the garden. The true question is, does He have to be fair, and how can we even know if God thinks that way? God is God, and he defies out pathetic human understanding. We only know what he told us.

Now which God sounds fair??

The one who punishes people for a sin they never played any role in, OR the God who punishes people for the sin they only choose to commit??

Allach is not our God. Allach is a moon god, probably Baal.

Read the rest of that abomination, the koran. It's far more violent than anything Dante could come up with, and just as fictional.

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Retardeds, will they go to heaven?

Dr. Davidson:
Your assumption is wrong.
I fully understand your ruling about bastards, but thats not what we are discussing here. We are discussing whether your God is truly fair by studying this rule.

Humans do not decide whether God is or is not fair. Likewise, you do not decide whether Allah is or is not fair. God decides. We obey. End of story.

OnYourKnee:
You didn't have to explain Omniscient again, I understand it. But you don't understand me here, let me explain myself again.

When was this bastard friend condemned??
1 - Was it after he sinned??
2 - Was it before he sinned??

I understand exactly what you're asking. You're refusing to hear the response.

God knows, before the bastard is born, that the bastard will sin and be condemned.

Therefore, God allows him to be born a bastard, as God knows that the bastard was going to be condemned to Hell anyway.

I fail to see why this is so hard for you to grasp.

Being born a bastard is not a sin.

Being born a bastard is a mark that the bastard will be condemned.

[shert]

Re: Retardeds, will they go to heaven?

OnYourKnees:
I see what you are getting to. You are saying that God saved the trouble for Himself and condemned this person for sins, he didn't commit yet, but sins he will commit. Therefore, condemning someone for something that is still-to-happen, which is not fair.


Dr. Davidson:
I read the Koran multiple times, please provide me with the abominations you speak of.
Does God have to be fair?? I would say, Yes.
How can we know God is fair?? Well, here is something True Christians seem to lack "Common Sense". Why do I say this, well you take EVERYTHING for granted from the bible, which I respect, but also from a man!! Also, asking questions is out of the question!!
Also, you misspelled "Allah"

[Rev. Dr. Davidson]

Re: Retardeds, will they go to heaven?

Dr. Davidson:
I read the Koran multiple times, please provide me with the abominations you speak of.
Does God have to be fair?? I would say, Yes.
How can we know God is fair?? Well, here is something True Christians seem to lack "Common Sense". Why do I say this, well you take EVERYTHING for granted from the bible, which I respect, but also from a man!! Also, asking questions is out of the question!!
Also, you misspelled "Allah"

Muslims consider Christians and Jood as idol worshippers. They think that Christians worship three different gods.

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme." (Koran 8:37)

The Koran instructs not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (Koran 5:51) but to war against them: "When the Sacred Months are over, kill those who ascribe partners to God wheresoever ye find them; seize them, encompass them, and ambush them; then if they repent and observe prayer and pay the alms, let them go their way (Koran 4:5).

"Fight against those who believe not in God nor in the Last Day, who... refuse allegiance to the True Faith from among those who have received the Book, until they humbly pay tribute out of hand." (Koran 9:29)

"...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191); "fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Koran 9:5);

"murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123).

"Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (Koran 69:30-37)

"Strike off the heads of the disbelievers"; and after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" (Koran 47:4).

"Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers"; "smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them" (Koran 8:12; cp. 8:60).

"O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed" (Koran 9:73).

"slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace..." (Koran 5:34).

"for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods" (Koran 22:19-22) You see, I keep hearing Muslims say Islam is a religion of peace, but I don't see it in the Koran. You even believe that it is not Muslims killing innocent people, but Allah himself...


Quote:
"It is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself." (Koran 8:17; cp. Surah Al-Baqarah 2:190)

Allah "will punish them by our hands..." (Koran 9:14).
How are we, True Christians™ to believe a thing you say? Islam teaches that Christians are idol worshippers, and you think that we worship three gods...


Quote:
"The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, was no more than Allah's apostle and His Word which He cast to Mary; a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His apostles and do not say: 'Three.' ...Allah is but one God...." (Koran 4:171)

"...Then Allah will say: 'Jesus, the son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind: 'Worship me and my mother as gods beside Allah?'" (Koran 5:114)
Since we're pagans according to Islam, it is acceptable for you to break oaths...


Quote:
It is acceptable to break treaties and obligations with pagans and make war on them whenever strong enough to do so (Koran 9:3)

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Retardeds, will they go to heaven?

OnYourKnees:
I see what you are getting to. You are saying that God saved the trouble for Himself and condemned this person for sins, he didn't commit yet, but sins he will commit. Therefore, condemning someone for something that is still-to-happen, which is not fair.

Does God know everything that will ever happen? If so, why shouldn't He condemn people for things which are still-to-happen?

[eliot mayfield]

Re: Retardeds, will they go to heaven?

I ran across this disturbing story where the retardeds are allwed to dance and who knows what else! They should be sterilized at birth. This behavior can only lead to trouble:

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070506/FEATURES/705060306

Ryan had reason to be nervous. It was his first prom, and he had asked his big sister to keep him company. While inviting your sister to the prom might guarantee you an empty table in some circles, at the Joy Prom last weekend no one stared.
That's because the party guests were not high school seniors celebrating their last big bash before college, but people with Down syndrome from Louisville and the surrounding area enjoying a rare moment of acceptance.
"So many of these kids are marginalized," said Garry Gupton, father of 17-year-old Grant, who has Down syndrome. "Here they can just be themselves, they don't have to worry about fitting in or what other people are going to think."
Before the dance Saturday night, the partygoers primped and prepped in the multipurpose room at Down Syndrome of Louisville on Bardstown Road. There was crying, sulking and excitement as the young men got their hair gelled and shoes shined and the women got their makeup, nails and hair done.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Retardeds, will they go to heaven?

I ran across this disturbing story where the retardeds are allwed to dance and who knows what else! They should be sterilized at birth. This behavior can only lead to trouble:

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070506/FEATURES/705060306

Well I blame those demonic Beatles. Its a little known fact that John Lennon, the communist and race traitor, was in fact a retarded. The evidence is HERE.

On the other hand, THIS retarded is doing its very best to emulate our Godly President. The little freak is certainly hellbound, and to make things worse it's a mormon, but its at least trying. Which is more than I can say for 99% of the unsaved heathen scum who wander in here. Just watch the video in the link above and you'll see what I mean.

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Retardeds, will they go to heaven?

On the other hand, THIS retarded is doing its very best to emulate our Godly President. The little freak is certainly hellbound, and to make things worse it's a mormon, but its at least trying. Which is more than I can say for 99% of the unsaved heathen scum who wander in here. Just watch the video in the link above and you'll see what I mean.

An interesting question - have there ever been any non-retarded Morons, or is Mormon actually a synonym for mongoloid?