[Rev. Dr. Davidson]

Re: Retardeds, will they go to heaven?

Shert,
You were born out of wedlock to some Belgian whore weren't you? You fight and fight in this thread, but you are arguing with the wrong people. You need to take your complaints directly to God.

A bastard is a bastard and is damned to hell... End of story. How many ways can people explain this fact? If the bastard defiles some poor woman, and gets children on her, those children are damned. So on and so forth for ten genertions. I'm not sure about Christian spouses who didn't know they'd married a bastard yet.

[shert]

Re: Retardeds, will they go to heaven?

Bobby Joe:

This makes perfect sense what you said here: "Naturally God is fair. God creates us knowing when, were and how we will sin and then waits for us to do it. Then He punish us. This is perfect justice."

However, you said "They chose to be born out of wedlock. It is like Blacks, they chose to be born as an descendent of Ham, son of Noah, so therefore they must be punished for Ham’s crime."
How do you choose to be born bastard?? You didn't even exist!! Sometimes you don't even know that you are a bastard!! Now, where is the choice you talked about??

Also, are you saying that all black people will go to Hell??

From my understanding, some of you True Christians were gay or were involved in some gay experience. Then, they were saved and became True Christians, This is fair, giving someone a chance. In bastards case, there is no chance given whatsoever. How can you believe that "Naturally God is fair" if He punishes people for a sin they didn't even exist when it happened!!


Brother Temperance:
Lets review what you wrote here:
"Yes, but God knows in advance that sinners will make that choice. If they chose not to sin, then God would be wrong, which would be a logical impossibility. So can they really be said to have any kind of a choice at all?"
1 - You said "sinners will make that choice?": that means, they had a chance and made a choice. Then, the judgment was based on that choice.
2 - You said "So can they really be said to have any kind of a choice at all": I would say, Yes. They had a choice, and God judged them by the choice they made.
In the bastard situation, where is the choice they made that God judged them by??

Then you said:"Do you have faith in the Qu'ran? Do you have faith in Allah?", well, we are not discussing Islam here. But, the answer is Yes. But that doesn't mean that I see something that is "seems unfair" and I don't understand why God say something here and contradicts somewhere else and just sit quite and not ask question.
I believe in Qu'ran and Allah because everything made sense, even before I became religious.
You see, I didn't go through the "You have to be Saved to understand", then listen to "I don't understand God's way" and "I know it seems unfair" from True Christians.

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

OnYourKnees:

I misused words in my last post. You are right, God doesn't hope. What I meant is that God can do everything, but won't do things. For example, everyone can swing a bat, but you will not swing a bat if your friend is standing in front of you, because thats a murder.

Have you seen a movie called Minority Report?? Basically, its a movie about a future machine that the police uses to find out crimes before they are even committed. So, the police stops those people who are about to commit the crime and punishes them.

I believe that God is omniscient, but He is also fair. He will not punish us for a crime that never happened. If we are punished, then its because we CHOSE to commit a crime.

Yes, but God knows in advance that sinners will make that choice. If they chose not to sin, then God would be wrong, which would be a logical impossibility. So can they really be said to have any kind of a choice at all?

Again, you said: God created Hell to punish those who sin.
I still don't understand the sin the bastards committed??

When I read your explanations about point 2, I basically see that you are following something that doesn't make sense to you. You found a book, you are following it with no questions asked, even if it doesn't make sense to you or "seems not fair".

In point 4: I am talking about you guys saying "Have Faith" and believe in God's judgment. What I am saying is that how can I have faith in contradicting things!! All religions can set some weird rules, e.g. eating babies, and say "Have Faith" and just do what this book says.

Do you have faith in the Qu'ran? Do you have faith in Allah?

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

OnYourKnees:

I misused words in my last post. You are right, God doesn't hope. What I meant is that God can do everything, but won't do things. For example, everyone can swing a bat, but you will not swing a bat if your friend is standing in front of you, because thats a murder.

Have you seen a movie called Minority Report?? Basically, its a movie about a future machine that the police uses to find out crimes before they are even committed. So, the police stops those people who are about to commit the crime and punishes them

I believe that God is omniscient, but He is also fair. He will not punish us for a crime that never happened. If we are punished, then its because we CHOSE to commit a crime. .

Naturally God is fair. God creates us knowing when, were and how we will sin and then waits for us to do it. Then He punish us. This is perfect justice.

Again, you said: God created Hell to punish those who sin.
I still don't understand the sin the bastards committed??

They chose to be born out of wedlock. It is like Blacks, they chose to be born as an descendent of Ham, son of Noah, so therefore they must be punished for Ham’s crime.

[shert]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

OnYourKnees:

I misused words in my last post. You are right, God doesn't hope. What I meant is that God can do everything, but won't do things. For example, everyone can swing a bat, but you will not swing a bat if your friend is standing in front of you, because thats a murder.

Have you seen a movie called Minority Report?? Basically, its a movie about a future machine that the police uses to find out crimes before they are even committed. So, the police stops those people who are about to commit the crime and punishes them.

I believe that God is omniscient, but He is also fair. He will not punish us for a crime that never happened. If we are punished, then its because we CHOSE to commit a crime.

Again, you said: God created Hell to punish those who sin.
I still don't understand the sin the bastards committed??

When I read your explanations about point 2, I basically see that you are following something that doesn't make sense to you. You found a book, you are following it with no questions asked, even if it doesn't make sense to you or "seems not fair".

In point 3: God knows the outcomes, thats right. But, what outcomes?? The outcomes to the chances you were given that determines you destination to Hell or Heaven. Thats what I meant by chances. So, even though God knows the outcomes, you will still be given the chances, because if you didn't get the chances, then the outcomes will never happen.

In point 4: I am talking about you guys saying "Have Faith" and believe in God's judgment. What I am saying is that how can I have faith in contradicting things!! All religions can set some weird rules, e.g. eating babies, and say "Have Faith" and just do what this book says.

[Rev. Dr. Davidson]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

Bless you, my odd numbered chromosome carrier,
Father Mo

Aren't you supposed to be in court today? That little boy you molested last month is angry. Oh wait, the dioces probably moved you before going to court.

[Father Maurice Lester]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

Perhaps there is a place that [b]h]/b]e puts them, while not letting them through the gates? At least the ones that aren't too retarded to say, "I accept Jesus."

There is a place like that right here on earth.

We call it 'Freehold, Iowa'. Your entire congregation better darn well hope there is room in Heaven for the mentally less gifted!

BTW...it is very bad form not to capitalise 'he' when referring to our Heavenly Father. I am not surprised that all of your Pastors here have let that stand so long as they spend too much time forcing people to tithe instead of really doing God's work.



Bless you, my odd numbered chromosome carrier,
Father Mo

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

So if Silver Birch says we can find the means to overcome all handicaps and disabilities, then that means that handicapped and disabled people just aren't trying hard enough? According to your wacky "peace and love" philosophy, the problem with people in wheelchairs is that they're lazy?

Well, bonzo is (for once) atleast partly right:
We all agree that retards and all manners of handicapped people are hated by God...
That's why He made them so in the first place.
So in essence, they must have done something to provoke Him to anger.
Thus, it is really their own fault they are filthy tards.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

Dear Pastor,

My older sister, Becky, is a retarded. She is 12-years old and she has been hooked up to a mashine in her bedroom since she was too years old. She can't talk none except for moans and grunts and she's blind and her face is squished up like a pancake. My dad says she's a moongloid, and that I shouldn't call her a retarded. But all my friends who I charge 25 cents to peek in her window say she is definitely a retarded. My parents read the Bible to her while they feed her with a tube. Sometimes she spits up stuff onto my mom and dad, and me - and once she threw up on the Bible. My dad says she has a demon in her that makes her that way, but the doctor said it is because my mom was 53-years old when she had her, and God don’t like for old hags to have no sex. Do retardeds like my sister, Becky, go to heaven?


Benjaman Goodman
Age 9

Dear Benny,



The Bible is pretty clear about who gets to spend eternity with Jesus in Heaven, and who gets to roast eternally with Satan in Hell. I'm afraid I can only speculate that since God tells us in the book of Jeremiah 1:5 that He knows us before He even forms us in the womb, that your sister, Becky, must have really done something to tick off the Lord before she was born. As I always say, it is not for us to question how the Lord gets his kicks, but basically, unless your retarded, deaf, dumb and blind sister finds some way of understanding that Jesus died for her sins, and she miraculously finds the cognitive ability to accept Him as her personal savior, she is going to roast in Hell along with all the Catholics, child molesters, fornicators and mass murderers, not to mention the aborted and miscarried fetuses, who were also never able to comprehend Jesus and must therefore be tortured for eternity.


I'm very sorry, Benny, but its the Lord's will. If it makes you feel any better, your sister isn't alone. Just read Brother Harry's sermon, "Chances Are, You and your Family Will Wind up in Hell," if you need some comfort.

-Pastor Deacon Fred

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

We can never promise that your life will be free from problems, perplexity, or even pain. We can promise that within yourself you will find the means to overcome all handicaps and disabilities. As you strive to express the highest, the deepest, the greatest within yourself, so you will attract to your aid those beings from our world who love you, who desire to help you, and through you help others (Silver Birch)
To spend a life on earth in a disabled body is a means of spiritual progression

So if Silver Birch says we can find the means to overcome all handicaps and disabilities, then that means that handicapped and disabled people just aren't trying hard enough? According to your wacky "peace and love" philosophy, the problem with people in wheelchairs is that they're lazy?

I can assure you there is no hatred in my heart but a genuine interest in my fellow man/woman no matter what they colour, culture or religious beliefs. Obviously be the very choices YOU make you have not learnt lessons you need to learn by holding such distorted beliefs so therefore you are a young unevolved soul and will be spending a lot of incarnations on earth which is the real hell

So you believe we'll be punished in the next life for laughing at the shiny tree you worship? Your shiny tree will curse us to be born into an undesirable incarnation, such as a mongoloid? You believe that cripples and tards are being punished for past sins?

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

I will comment on the last two paragraphs because its something I actually agree with you, but not completely.

Our God hopes and wants because he loves us, but he cannot reward us for something we didn't do or not punish us when we choose to sin!! I am saying He cannot, because He sat many rules and it would be pure wrong if He Himself start breaking the rules.

You still miss the point that God CANNOT "hope" for anything. God already knows the outcome.

It is only possible to have hope if you do NOT already know the outcome.

In addition, God Himself set the rules, knowing in advance that the vast majority of His creation would not be able to follow those rules. Yet, for some strange reason, you continue to insist that He does not create people knowing that they are already condemned to Hellfire. In this, you say that God is NOT omniscient!

BUT back to our main point:
You said: God created Hell to punish those who sin.
Please explain to me what sin those bastards, that your God send to Hell, committed??

From my understanding from previous messages:
1- The sin they committed is being born bastards!!
2- Others actions affect us!!
3- God will only make the condemned souls be born as bastards!!
4- We don't understand God's ways, Have FAITH.

I don't know what other sins those bastards committed, probably many. However, God declared that no bastard, to the tenth generation, shall enter His congregation. He set the rules, as you have said before.

Let me save some time and respond briefly to the above reasonings provided by some of you:
1 - This contradicts with what you said, because being a bastard is a sin they didn't play ANY role in, they might not even know that their grandmother is a bastard.

No, it contradicts what YOU said. You're the one insisting that God only punishes individuals for their own actions, not us.

2- I agree, but we shouldn't be blamed and punished for their actions, especially if we didn't play any role in, or DIDN'T EVEN EXIST WHEN THE SIN HAPPENED!!

Who are you or I to tell God what He should or should not do?

3- The bastards have no free will at all and God is punishing them without giving them any chance.

God knows all outcomes. He knows if your neighbor is going to Hell before your neighbor is created. Any "chances" given are false chances, since God knows the outcome before creating the individual.

4- Thats what the religion that makes its followers eat babies says!! Have Faith and disregard ALL common sense is what everyone sees when you say "HAVE FAITH" about this issue.

I don't recall what this last point references.

[Brother V]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

I know people with damaged stones, bastards, and other defects won't go, but what about mental defects? If a retard is so retarded, then they couldn't understand enough to accept Christ. But I saw a bunch of them in A Christian workshop making leather wallets to sell and they were all singing, "Jesus Loves the Little Children," so maybe they could get into heaven.
Retarded isn't in the Bible.

After this thread has been derailed by heathens, I'd like to get back on the focus of the question.

My answer is also a question though.

Would it really be heaven if retards were there?

Think about it.

YIC
v

[Brother V]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

I can assure you there is no hatred in my heart but a genuine interest in my fellow man/woman no matter what they colour, culture or religious beliefs. Obviously be the very choices YOU make you have not learnt lessons you need to learn by holding such distorted beliefs so therefore you are a young unevolved soul and will be spending a lot of incarnations on earth which is the real hell

Look back at what you have just typed.

Do you find those words condescending?

Distorted... Unevolved...

Then you go off on some incarnation thingy judging that we are less worthy than you and will be spending more time on earth.

Friend, you are quite a hipocrite and judge people, even though you claim you aren't.

I also am a hipocrite, and I routinely judge people, but I'm aware that I do, so it's ok.

YIC
V

[bonzo2 (On Moderation)]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

I can assure you there is no hatred in my heart but a genuine interest in my fellow man/woman no matter what they colour, culture or religious beliefs. Obviously be the very choices YOU make you have not learnt lessons you need to learn by holding such distorted beliefs so therefore you are a young unevolved soul and will be spending a lot of incarnations on earth which is the real hell

[Rev. Dr. Davidson]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

You on this site are ugly and deformed within - by using the quote I was referring to your hate filled bigotry and views of others who do not follow your beliefs - what goes around comes around.

And by saying this, you are judging us with hate in your heart. Prove that I am hateful and a bigot. You can not because, by your own beliefs, you canonly judge your own actions to achieve spiritual fulfillment.

We already know the concept of, "What goes around comes around." In the bible it talks about this many times. You, on the other hand, came here with hate in your heart. We did not ask you to come here. You came here of your own volition, and started sowing the seeds of hate within your own soul. You are reaping your own rewards. We don't have to like you, or even love you. We do love everyone that makes an effort to know Jesus. We merely try to help them come into the fold.

You're what, about 13 years old? If you aren't, you may want to consider the childish nature of your so-called arguments. You have your fingers in your ears shouting, "La la la," not even trying to listen. Who is the real bigot here? S**t or get off the pot sonny.