[bonzo2 (On Moderation)]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

Its the choices we make that will determine the progression we make spiritually

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

We can never promise that your life will be free from problems, perplexity, or even pain. We can promise that within yourself you will find the means to overcome all handicaps and disabilities. As you strive to express the highest, the deepest, the greatest within yourself, so you will attract to your aid those beings from our world who love you, who desire to help you, and through you help others (Silver Birch)

To spend a life on earth in a disabled body is a means of spiritual progression

But this contradict the quotes of "cause and effect" and "what comes around goes around"..
Logic isn't your strong side eh?

You cannot argue that every problem is brought on you by yourself, and then say that they aren't.
You can't have both.

[bonzo2 (On Moderation)]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

We can never promise that your life will be free from problems, perplexity, or even pain. We can promise that within yourself you will find the means to overcome all handicaps and disabilities. As you strive to express the highest, the deepest, the greatest within yourself, so you will attract to your aid those beings from our world who love you, who desire to help you, and through you help others (Silver Birch)

To spend a life on earth in a disabled body is a means of spiritual progression

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

what goes around comes around.

And once again you confess your faith that retards are ugly & stupid because they do ugly & stupid works.
We know that tards are ugly & stupid because God made them so, probably to punish the parents for some vile sin.
Or to punish the tard for some sin he is going to commit in the future.

So we don't believe very differently on this matter..

[bonzo2 (On Moderation)]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

According to your arguments here, those who are beautiful are with virtue, and those that are without are not. This is an error. When the antichrist comes, he will be beautiful, and will tell people beautiful things in which to believe. Within he will be ugly and deformed.

The old saying, "As outside, so within," is one of the errors the cathylicks preach. Perhaps you should read your Gandi book more closely. It advocates following a beautiful person because they have abviously done beautiful things.

[/indent]

You on this site are ugly and deformed within - by using the quote I was referring to your hate filled bigotry and views of others who do not follow your beliefs - what goes around comes around.

[Rev. Dr. Davidson]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

The law of cause and effect is basic, fundamental and unalterable because you can reap only what you have sown. Effect must follow cause with mathematical accuracy; it cannot be otherwise. In turn the effect becomes the cause by which another effect is set into motion, producing another cause. The process is a constant one. (Silver Birch)

According to your arguments here, those who are beautiful are with virtue, and those that are without are not. This is an error. When the antichrist comes, he will be beautiful, and will tell people beautiful things in which to believe. Within he will be ugly and deformed.

The old saying, "As outside, so within," is one of the errors the cathylicks preach. Perhaps you should read your Gandi book more closely. It advocates following a beautiful person because they have abviously done beautiful things.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

The law of cause and effect is basic, fundamental and unalterable because you can reap only what you have sown.

So atleast you admit that tards brought it on themselves?
Praise! Maybe there is yet hope for you.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

The law of cause and effect is basic, fundamental and unalterable because you can reap only what you have sown. Effect must follow cause with mathematical accuracy; it cannot be otherwise. In turn the effect becomes the cause by which another effect is set into motion, producing another cause. The process is a constant one. (Silver Birch)

Ezekiel 25:17 And I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them.

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

[bonzo2 (On Moderation)]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

Well I would go by Leviticus 21??

Whosoever hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. ... Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries.

Surely Mongies are "blemished".

Do these faces look GLORY bound to you? I don't think they do...but what do I know... I am merely a woman.

With Lve and compassion, Sister Thumper

The law of cause and effect is basic, fundamental and unalterable because you can reap only what you have sown. Effect must follow cause with mathematical accuracy; it cannot be otherwise. In turn the effect becomes the cause by which another effect is set into motion, producing another cause. The process is a constant one. (Silver Birch)

[shert]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

God (or Allah) cannot "hope" for anything, as God knows all outcomes in advance. "Wanting" people to come to Him is purely a human conceit. God knows before you're born exactly what you will do and what will happen to you.

God created Hell to punish those who sin, because He knew His creation would require eternal punishment for failure to meet His standards. The same applies to your Allah.

Unless you can explain some way that your Allah is different?

I will comment on the last two paragraphs because its something I actually agree with you, but not completely.

Our God hopes and wants because he loves us, but he cannot reward us for something we didn't do or not punish us when we choose to sin!! I am saying He cannot, because He sat many rules and it would be pure wrong if He Himself start breaking the rules.

Other than this point I mentioned above, I agree with what you said COMPLETELY.

BUT back to our main point:
You said: God created Hell to punish those who sin.
Please explain to me what sin those bastards, that your God send to Hell, committed??

From my understanding from previous messages:
1- The sin they committed is being born bastards!!
2- Others actions affect us!!
3- God will only make the condemned souls be born as bastards!!
4- We don't understand God's ways, Have FAITH.

Let me save some time and respond briefly to the above reasonings provided by some of you:
1 - This contradicts with what you said, because being a bastard is a sin they didn't play ANY role in, they might not even know that their grandmother is a bastard.
2- I agree, but we shouldn't be blamed and punished for their actions, especially if we didn't play any role in, or DIDN'T EVEN EXIST WHEN THE SIN HAPPENED!!
3- The bastards have no free will at all and God is punishing them without giving them any chance.
4- Thats what the religion that makes its followers eat babies says!! Have Faith and disregard ALL common sense is what everyone sees when you say "HAVE FAITH" about this issue.

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

OnYourKnees:
Creating a soul is never a condemn. Being a condemned soul is the result of this soul wrong doings. I told you before, God doesn't want to condemn souls, He doesn't want to send people to Hell. Thats why He gives them multiple chances to redeem themselves. If they didn't, then its not God's fault they are burning in Hell.

False chances!!
Would you rather go to Hell because of something YOU chose to COMMIT, or something your great, great, great grandmother committed 200 years ago and you never EVEN knew about it!!
Its not a false hope. Its a fair chance, its you who chooses to do wrong or good. God doesn't make you do wrong or good, He just knows what you will do. Therefore, its you who makes it false hope or a chance to get to heaven.

To answer the question that you didn't answer "Also, What made these condemned souls you mentioned so condemned??"
In my religion, Islam, souls are condemned because of their OWN actions. Therefore, there is no condemned soul before its born or when its born. It is condemned after the person dies, because there is a chance to repent to the very end.

Do you understand now why EVERYONE is given a chance??

I am a Muslim who follows the Quran.

Actually, my answer was explaining WHY those souls are condemned.

Do you really understand omnscience? That means that God knows all past, present, and ALL FUTURE. That means that before God created the universe, He knew full well that He would condemn the vast majority of His creation to eternal punishment because His humans would not be able to live up to His laws.

If God -- or your Allah -- knows that a particular soul will be condemned to Hell, yet creates it anyway, please explain to me how that is He not condemning it to Hell by creating it? I say He is.

If I create a baking dish out of plastic explosive and give it to someone to cook dinner in over a gas flame, I have intentionally caused an explosion. I can't say, "Well, I didn't realize that Jennifer would actually bake something in it," and absolve myself of guilt. By the same logic, if God creates a soul that He already knows will be condemned to Hell, then He has condemned it by creating it.

God (or Allah) cannot "hope" for anything, as God knows all outcomes in advance. "Wanting" people to come to Him is purely a human conceit. God knows before you're born exactly what you will do and what will happen to you.

God created Hell to punish those who sin, because He knew His creation would require eternal punishment for failure to meet His standards. The same applies to your Allah.

Unless you can explain some way that your Allah is different?

[shert]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

OnYourKnees:
Creating a soul is never a condemn. Being a condemned soul is the result of this soul wrong doings. I told you before, God doesn't want to condemn souls, He doesn't want to send people to Hell. Thats why He gives them multiple chances to redeem themselves. If they didn't, then its not God's fault they are burning in Hell.

False chances!!
Would you rather go to Hell because of something YOU chose to COMMIT, or something your great, great, great grandmother committed 200 years ago and you never EVEN knew about it!!
Its not a false hope. Its a fair chance, its you who chooses to do wrong or good. God doesn't make you do wrong or good, He just knows what you will do. Therefore, its you who makes it false hope or a chance to get to heaven.

To answer the question that you didn't answer "Also, What made these condemned souls you mentioned so condemned??"
In my religion, Islam, souls are condemned because of their OWN actions. Therefore, there is no condemned soul before its born or when its born. It is condemned after the person dies, because there is a chance to repent to the very end.

Do you understand now why EVERYONE is given a chance??

I am a Muslim who follows the Quran.

[OnYourKnees]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

OnYourKnees:
The extra step you talked about in your post is what changes Fairness to No Justice at all.
The extra step you are talking about is judging people for something they never committed. I don't see why you call this mercy!!
My God knows who is going to Hell or Heaven because he knows the outcome of their "challenge", if there was no challenge, then what do you base your judgment on??

I don't follow the bible, so I cannot support my beliefs from it.

Also, What made these condemned souls you mentioned so condemned??

If God knows the outcome before He creates the soul that will end up in Hell -- something you believe -- then He condemns the soul by the act of creating it. By your "fairness" standards, it would seem He would have to ONLY create souls which He knew WOULD go to Heaven, otherwise He'd be cruel and unjust!

I fail to see why you believe it to be somehow more "fair" to give the condemned soul false chances, when God already KNOWS the outcome! That's just raising false hopes.

Now, what book do you base your beliefs on, since you don't follow the Bible?

[shert]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

Again, sorry for a late reply. I could only post using my Internet at office, maybe the moderators here could fix this problem.

Brother Temperance:
1- I am not questioning God, I am just seeing two contradictory acts and I placed a question. The only answer I got from you guys is "We know it seems unfair" && "You will understand once you are Saved!!". It would be ignorant of anyone to see these contradictions and not say anything!! Now, if these contradictions are only in my head, please explain them to me.

2- My God doesn't sentence people to Hell without giving them a chance. My God knows the outcome only. When person X goes to Hell, he goes there because he got a chance or two and refused God, therefore he deserves to be punished for COMMITTING something with his OWN WILL.
In your case, person X goes to Hell because of something he never did or he never knew about!! Actually, person X could be you or anyone of your True Christian friends since its kinda stupid to see someone claiming that he knows his GREAT grandfather or grandmother is not a bastard since conceiving a child outside of marriage is not something people can find out, especially if its +300 years ago!!

3- If you are following a True Religion, then you could answer all questions directed to you. A religion made by God has all the answers, but a religion made by humans is full of contradictions and you can cripple this religion with a few hypotheses.

4- Again, I don't follow Christianity. If you ask me to prove my point from my own book, then I could prove to you a lot of things. Even the religion that eats babies can prove its right, if you want them to prove it using their own books.
Friend, we are here talking about common sense. Again read point 1 to understand why the Chinese people don't get to Hell if they never heard of God, thats in my belief of course.

A question came to my mind: I never read your bible cover-to-cover, but I know for sure that there were many prophets sent by your God before Jesus. My question is: Do they go to Hell or Heaven?? Jesus was sent way after they died!!

5- Friend, I don't deny Faith. But I refuse to believe in something that you guys, True Christians, say "It seems unfair!!". Or believe in something so contradicting to the point that leaves people speechless and staring at the wall for a moment thinking to themselves "Why would people believe in such a thing!!"

OnYourKnees:
The extra step you talked about in your post is what changes Fairness to No Justice at all.
The extra step you are talking about is judging people for something they never committed. I don't see why you call this mercy!!
My God knows who is going to Hell or Heaven because he knows the outcome of their "challenge", if there was no challenge, then what do you base your judgment on??

I don't follow the bible, so I cannot support my beliefs from it.

Also, What made these condemned souls you mentioned so condemned??

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Retards, will they go to heaven?

4 - About Chinese people going to Hell because they never believed in God.
In my belief: If someone didn't get a fair chance to believe in God, then this person will not go to Hell. If the Chinese people hear about God in the News all the time and never chose to believe in Him, then they will go to Hell. If they never heard oh Him, then they will not go to Hell.

Ingorance of, or knowledge of, Gods Holy laws is no excuse if you do not do them!
If they have not heard of Christ so that they can believe in Him, then they shall still perish!
THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED, WHATEVER THEY KNOW THE LAW OR NOT! (Romans 2:13-15)

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Romans :12-13