[Paul Tarzan]

Re: Down syndrome is a lifestyle choice!

The hatefulness of Churchianity never ceases to astound me...you reject the very same people that Jesus would have looked kindly upon.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Down syndrome is a lifestyle choice!

The hatefulness of Churchianity never ceases to astound me...you reject the very same people that Jesus would have looked kindly upon.

And what did Jesus do next?

He cast out the demons. Jesus who made the world and everything in it and who knows everything about it recognised the same symptoms that we recognise and Jesus knew these were demons. Generally speaking The Bible does not name demons yet just because some modern doctors have come up with names for the various "symptoms" are they any less demons?

Would Jesus no longer need to exorcise them?

I noticed in post #866 (which was quite long and off topic) that NO REASON was given why these symptoms arise in the first place. Perhaps characteristics would be a better word so as to avoid confusion. These are characteristic of devils:

Matthew 17:18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour. KJV

Jesus did not mention neurological disorders. Sometimes people say to me "OH, but in those days they thought epilepsy was a devil," suggesting I suppose that these days we know better. Better than the Creator of the universe? Even from the secular stance of big bangs and Darwinism how could a simpler system (the human mind) possibly comprehend a far more complex system (the entire universe)? Remember, the secularist sees no reason why there shouldn't be other self aware species distributed across infinity so in their model the complexity including all those additional countless minds must be very complex indeed. Yet all created by God and within His ken and still they know better?

The characteristics of this particular devil are given:

• being a lunatic
• being sorely vexed
• hurled into fire
• convulsing oft into the water
• look up

Additional characteristics are described by Mark:

• deaf and dumb - caused by a foul spirit, confirmed by Jesus
• foaming
• tooth gnashing
• pining away
• look up

Jesus spoke directly to these demons. Sometimes the demons replied. How could that be if there were no demons?

Mark 1:23-26 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God. And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him. KJV

There is a reason why these cursed progeny are afflicted. There are other curses—the curse of perpetual servitude for example—but here we see quite ovbious evidence for very specific characteristics. The cause is sin. Satan presents "lifestyle choices" with real consequences. He knows what they are and prefers to keep fools in ignorance. For such abominable choices multiple generations are blasted.

Numbers 14:18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. KJV

How do you know what lifestyle abominations were embraced by the grandparents or great-grandparents or great-great-grandparents of the generation being born today? Flapper girls maybe? Learing how to flaunt themselves in front of idols to a hot jazz beat? There is a price to pay. Following another religion? There is a price to pay.

Exodus 20:3-5 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; KJV

When we see evidence for that—the curse itself—we know that it t results from a lifestyle choice and is rectified by exorcism. Jesus knew that. The demons know that. And the prayer of faith ALWAYS brings deliverance.

James 5:13-15 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. KJV

Jesus delivers from:

• Affliction
• Illnesses
• Sin

I call that very strong evidence. Having read Jesus' own words on this subject, with all the characteristics of these foul spirits described (I have listed a few of them but there are many more), with the causes proclaimed (again, I've just mentioned one or two), with the remedy made plain how can there be any doubt remaining?

[James Hutchins]

Re: Down syndrome is a lifestyle choice!

I was browsing ....tldr....In Christian Love...

Friend, why all the hatred of retards? Is it the drooling? Incessant repetitive questions? The racket of the heads banging against the walls?
Without these damaged people, how are normal Christian folk every to know when other people have angered God? Sure, a chopped off arm or constant stench of a urinary 'issue' is effective though the knowledge that a person upset little baby Jesus enough to burden all of society with a worthless creature, works well after the parent has taken the short bu to Hell.
I hire retards to shovel manure, chase crows, find spent brass and clean up after the nigras and messicans who live at the Hutchins Plantation, LLC. If that is not True Christian(tm) Love, I do not know what it is. Can't you find it in your cold dark heart to reach out to these miscreants?

[harlotismymiddlename]

Re: Down syndrome is a lifestyle choice!

All women are born to be sluts which is why True Christian ™ men must keep such a close eye on their daughters, and why husbands must keep their wives home except when attending proper church events with proper escorts.

All women are born sluts. I am not a slut, and I am a girl. I don't even kiss boys(yet) much less have intercourse

[John Creeser]

Re: Down syndrome is a lifestyle choice!

All women are born sluts. I am not a slut, and I am a girl. I don't even kiss boys(yet) much less have intercourse

I wouldn't say all women are born whores. Those who do not come to accept Jesus Christ and find a good True Christian™ husband certainly do.

1st Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1st Timothy 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1st Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1st Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1st Timothy 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1st Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1st Timothy 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Down syndrome is a lifestyle choice!

All women are born sluts. I am not a slut, and I am a girl. I don't even kiss boys(yet) much less have intercourse

Why do you want to be a slut? What is wrong with a decent Christian lifestyle?

[harlotismymiddlename]

Re: Down syndrome is a lifestyle choice!

Why do you want to be a slut? What is wrong with a decent Christian lifestyle?

I never said I wanted to be one

[James Hutchins]

Re: Down syndrome is a lifestyle choice!

All women are born sluts. I am not a slut, and I am a girl. I don't even kiss boys(yet) much less have intercourse

I never said I wanted to be one

Welcome friend.
No man has to kiss a woman to have S-E-X. Ask my wife, Mrs. Hutchins.

But you are right, all females are dirty, filthy sluts and whores.

1st Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1st Corinthians 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
1st Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
1st Corinthians 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
1st Corinthians 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
1st Corinthians 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1st Corinthians 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
1st Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

1st Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1st Corinthians 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1st Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1st Timothy 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1st Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1st Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1st Timothy 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1st Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1st Timothy 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

[harlotismymiddlename]

Re: Down syndrome is a lifestyle choice!

Welcome friend.
No man has to kiss a woman to have S-E-X. Ask my wife, Mrs. Hutchins.

But you are right, all females are dirty, filthy sluts and whores.

1st Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1st Corinthians 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
1st Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
1st Corinthians 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
1st Corinthians 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
1st Corinthians 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1st Corinthians 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
1st Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

1st Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1st Corinthians 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1st Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1st Timothy 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1st Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1st Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1st Timothy 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1st Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1st Timothy 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

I made a typo. I meant to say not all women are born sluts.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Down syndrome is a lifestyle choice!

I made a typo. I meant to say not all women are born sluts.

You may be right (though that is highly unlikely). I suppose it is slightly possible (fell through the cracks) one was not born a filthy whore.

However, I am just a man. As I pointed out, God says otherwise in the Holy Bible and He is the Creator and the Supreme Being.

[GOD=life]

Re: Down syndrome is a lifestyle choice!

This firmly intellectual piece of analysis is still valid several later.

There are STILL no laws against Downuality. I understand Republicans are working on what appears to be the losing battle against Sodomoid marriage, but please spend some time on this growing problem too!

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Down syndrome is a lifestyle choice!

There are degrees of the characteristics associated with these particular demoniacs as so clearly they are presented in The Bible. Liberals might describe them as a spectrum disorders or as degrees of mosaicism where different cells have different genotypes. Tomorrow they will have a different explanation. Yesterday they had something else. The choices resulting in such outcomes have been shown throughout the thread, supported by Scripture, and we know that as His sheep we are protected.

John 10:1-5 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Who is the shepherd of the Down syndrome afflicted? Who calleth them by name, and leadeth them out? No-one. They remain afflicted. In many cases they cannot even understand His voice. Language is central in our understanding of God's Plan and without words how could the catastrophe of Eve's disobedience or of the need for Redemption ever be understood?

Psalm 95:1-8 KJV
O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation. Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms. For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods. In his hand are the deep places of the earth: the strength of the hills is his also. The sea is his, and he made it: and his hands formed the dry land. O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker. For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

Whether the choices resulting in this affliction were made by one's parents or one's grandparents is immaterial here. The choice has been made. The affliction is present. And perhaps God's voice might be heard but without sufficient language skills how can it ever be understood? Why, in the mind of one not having language, should we kneel before The LORD our maker when they have no comprehension of what that means? One might as well say "oogle boogle zits kbang (now kneel down)" and no such possibility is mentioned anywhere in The Bible. God's sheep understand His voice. Understand what they have been redeemed from.

Are Christians mere automata who kneel at one command, dance at another, sing psalms or declare God's greatness by rote with no understanding of the words they prate? The Bible does not say so, very much the opposite:

Psalm 119:130 KJV
The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

Jesus delivered many afflicted individuals who subsequently acknowledged what He had done for them but until they had been redeemed from their afflictions they were excluded from the congregation of The LORD and so we know that demon possessed examples who remain without language have not been delivered. They cannot understand the Shepherd's voice. Their characteristics have been explained BY GOD in The Bible, have not changed, and whatever bizarre logic is cooked up to contradict The Bible does not alter what it says.

Disobedience (by Eve, emulated by Adam) admitted all sorts of demons (described in The Bible by our Creator with no mention whatsoever of genetic disorders or mosaic affliction of some cells but not others or of innate inability to understand the message of SIN and SALVATION having any cause other than by DEMONS which is spelled out rather clearly) and without language how can Redemption ever be comprehended?

Ezekiel 28:15 KJV
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Secularists do need to address this. Explanations from the medical professions contradict The Bible, contradict the FACT explained BY GOD that this results from CHOICE and opens a gateway to doubts which no Christian would ever entertain. If God is wrong about mental defects He might just be wrong about other things.

The Bible tells us that He is not.

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Down syndrome is a lifestyle choice!

Since the secular left insists that Downs Syndrome is neither a lifestyle choice nor a curse from the Creator, they must hold the position that it is an evolutionary adaptation. This only proves that liberals aspire to Downs Syndrome and adopt it as a lifestyle choice when they are able to. Quod erat demonstrandum.

[Witch Hammer]

Re: Down syndrome is a lifestyle choice!

This firmly intellectual piece of analysis is still valid several later.

There are STILL no laws against Downuality. I understand Republicans are working on what appears to be the losing battle against Sodomoid marriage, but please spend some time on this growing problem too!

I've always believed that choosing to be a mong is a gateway sin to sodomania...or is it the other way around?
Oh well, damned is damned, in either case.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Down syndrome is a lifestyle choice!

I've always believed that choosing to be a mong is a gateway sin to sodomania...or is it the other way around?
Oh well, damned is damned, in either case.

That might depend on the language skills? If the impulse could be explained to be sinful, then persistence would be wilful. But if the concept of sin could not be understood, its origin with Eve and its transmission by Adam, then I suppose it could explained that such behaviour is simply wrong. Others not having language at all might be punished until the activity ceased.

But would that be appropriate? Many secularists reject punishment as a learning aid altogether and recommend reward for good behaviour alone, with misdeeds being overlooked, but that is not an approach found anywhere in The Bible.

Proverbs 20:30 – 21:4 KJV
The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly. The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will. Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts. To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

Humanist laws have rendered punishments causing injury illegal. Beating or whipping children is declared to be wrong even if there is no injury. Therefore, in their delusion, whipping Jesus could have no effect on someone born 2,000 years later and it follows that whipping Jesus would have no effect on Him either. Other than to cause pain. But His suffering would just be suffering and someone living in China—even at the time—would enjoy no more choices than had been available the day before. No opportunity for Salvation, in other words. That is not what The Bible teaches.

The Bible is plain: Jesus’ suffering, in particular the stripes of that dreadful whip, is the means by which Redemption became available to everyone accepting His death as the price paid for their sins.

I Peter 2:21b-24 KJV
Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Was Jesus murdered for no reason? Is Christianity no more than murder cult built up from genocide and murder in The Promised Land, subsequent murders of those following other religions and incineration of their priests, pointless murder of children for no apparent reason over the millennia and culminating in a baby being born in Bethlehem explicitly for the purpose of being murdered?

To the secularist it must be so. Whipping people has no good effect EVER in their universe, beating children to the point of injury, is ALWAYS disgusting they must say.

The Bible disagrees.

Since the secular left insists that Downs Syndrome is neither a lifestyle choice nor a curse from the Creator, they must hold the position that it is an evolutionary adaptation. This only proves that liberals aspire to Downs Syndrome and adopt it as a lifestyle choice when they are able to. Quod erat demonstrandum.

Proverbs 13:22-24 KJV
A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just. Much food is in the tillage of the poor: but there is that is destroyed for want of judgment. He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

The point you raised about evolution, Mr Jenkins, seems to be reflected in verse 22. We know that curses are handed down through the generations and we also know that the reason is because God has said so. God not only perpetuates curses, a product of sin, but also blessings. Therefore inheritance need not be in terms of food only. Without God those secular types are at a loss to explain the circumstances we see all around us and need to invent something else. They propose a system of maladaptations with the weak weeded out and the strong surviving. Unfortunately for them "strong" must mean "most brutal" but their words float in a vacuum with no foundation. How unlike the Perfect Love of God by whose word we are sustained. And how could any of this be explained to someone without sufficient language to understand His mercy?

Proverbs 13:22-24 KJV
[Jesus speaking] It is written† Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
† Deuteronomy 8:3