[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Why atheism is wrong - the shocking and unbiased truth

The Origins of the Curse of Ham - Parablemanparablemania.ektopos.com/archives/2008/04/origin-curse-ham.htmlCached - Similar

Wow! You can cite stuff some opinionated person made up about what he thought the Bible meant as fact.

Now try looking at the Bible and the countless times God commands us to take possession of lesser races as slaves. Canaan is a race - Ham was the forefather of that race. Canaanites. Make the connection?

[davidbrainfart]

Re: Why atheism is wrong - the shocking and unbiased truth

I can't find anywhere in the Bible that it says Black Africans are intended to be the servants of white people.

Well, HERE you go.

Genesis 9:24-27
And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Is that the best you can do? I have already pointed out that there is nothing in this Bible passage about Black Africans and white people's alleged right to kidnap and enslave them. That white supremacist interpretation was added during the era of slavery but it originated with the Muslims:

The Origins of the Curse of Ham - Parablemanparablemania.ektopos.com/archives/2008/04/origin-curse-ham.htmlCached - Similar

[davidbrainfart]

Re: Why atheism is wrong - the shocking and unbiased truth

Perhaps you would like to post Matthew's geanealogy?

1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

2Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; 3And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; 4And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; 5And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; 6And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; 7And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; 8And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; 9And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; 10And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; 11And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

12And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; 13And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; 14And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; 15And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; 16And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

17So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.?

I note that this geneology goes from Adam to Joseph. It does not identify Joseph as the father of Jesus, so strictly speaking there is only one generation of geneology for Jesus: from Mary to Jesus.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Why atheism is wrong - the shocking and unbiased truth

I can't find anywhere in the Bible that it says Black Africans are intended to be the servants of white people.

Well, HERE you go.

[davidbrainfart]

Re: Why atheism is wrong - the shocking and unbiased truth

Perhaps you would like to post Matthew's geanealogy?

1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; 3And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; 4And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; 5And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; 6And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; 7And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; 8And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; 9And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; 10And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; 11And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

12And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; 13And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; 14And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; 15And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; 16And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
17So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

I note that this geneology goes from Adam to Joseph. It does not identify Joseph as the father of Jesus, so strictly speaking there is only one generation of geneology for Jesus: from Mary to Jesus.

[davidbrainfart]

Re: Why atheism is wrong - the shocking and unbiased truth

I keep coming back to this. Matthew and Luke both wrote geneologies of Jesus. They agreed on Adam to King David . . . I still think they copied it from the Old Testament up to King David and winged it after that.

I also don't believe any geneology that starts with Adam. I don't believe the very long life spans and I don't believe accurate geneologies go way back before the invention of writing.

Yes, yes, we get the idea. You don't believe a single word of the Holy Bible, despite the fact that it is God's Literal Word. We're all very impressed.

Actually I believe several words of the Bible, including some you don't believe. I also agree with five of the ten commandments. But for the life of me, I can't find anywhere in the Bible that it says Black Africans are intended to be the servants of white people.

I can't wait to see the look on your face when Jesus sends you down to hell, and you get sodomized by satan's huge barbed tallywhacker.

Oh, how Jesus and I will laugh!

See that's how we atheists are better than you True Christians. Some atheists are just as sadistic as some Christians but few of us would take pleasure in seeing you all burn in Hell. If you really made me angry, I would settle for sending my man to your place to hit you over the head with a watermelon and steal your television set, while riding away on his environmentally friendly bicycle.

[Thomas Dalton]

Re: Why atheism is wrong - the shocking and unbiased truth

In evolution there is a tension between the interests of individual and the interests of the species. For the species to survive the individuals must survive, but the species can also become extinct because individuals emphasise their interests over the species. So we harbor both tendencies within ourselves. It might be in my interest or that of my tribe to take the money and run, but it is in the interest of our species that we have the inhibition against anonymous killing even if we could get away with it.

And yet when American citizens on this board enter a polling booth, and votes for a candidate who takes money from the Koch brothers to keep burning fossil fuels and polluting the air and the water, because they only care that that same candidate supports their Christian values, they are indirectly contributing to the early death of millions in the interest of their faith. How would Jesus vote? Would the Koch brothers flip the switch?

So you look down on us, for saying God has all the answers, since we "only" have the Word of God as proof, but somehow it is okay to say Evolution has all the answers, with no proof at all?
Is it been observed that anonymous killing is bad for the overall species? No.
Has it been observed that most people would resort to anonymous torture, even when it ends in death?
Yes!
Evolution disproved!
Read "Behavioral Study of Obedience" in the Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology 67, written by Stanley Milgram (1963) please.

True Christian's would never torture a fellow True Christian like that. Even when commanded by an atheist leader. You see that we're morally superior?

And you still didn't answer mrs. Lizalor question to post Matthew's geanealogy. Please do.

[davidbrainfart]

Re: Why atheism is wrong - the shocking and unbiased truth

We have morals because we are made in the image of God. Imagine that I have a switch in front of me. If I flick the switch I recieve a £1000 but a stranger in China dies. I would not flick the switch because the Law of God 'thou shall not kill (unless instructed by God) tells me not to. Why would evolution stop me from doing it? It would make myself and my tribe 'fitter' and more likely to survive wouldn't it?

YIC

Jack

When I first heard that dilemma, China was known as "Red China," diplomatically unrecognized and, if anything more evil than the Soviet Union. Many people would have taken the money thinking they were doing God's will by killing a dirty commie. I decided I would not. I was a good moral atheist even then.

In evolution there is a tension between the interests of individual and the interests of the species. For the species to survive the individuals must survive, but the species can also become extinct because individuals emphasise their interests over the species. So we harbor both tendencies within ourselves. It might be in my interest or that of my tribe to take the money and run, but it is in the interest of our species that we have the inhibition against anonymous killing even if we could get away with it.

And yet when American citizens on this board enter a polling booth, and votes for a candidate who takes money from the Koch brothers to keep burning fossil fuels and polluting the air and the water, because they only care that that same candidate supports their Christian values, they are indirectly contributing to the early death of millions in the interest of their faith. How would Jesus vote? Would the Koch brothers flip the switch?

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Why atheism is wrong - the shocking and unbiased truth

Yes.

Perhaps you would like to post Matthew's geanealogy?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Why atheism is wrong - the shocking and unbiased truth

Originally Posted by DaveTheInfidel
I keep coming back to this. Matthew and Luke both wrote geneologies of Jesus. They agreed on Adam to King David




Yes. I read the whole Bible through when I was 14 years old. I must say the begats make boring reading. At the time I didn't notice that they were different, as I believe most Christians don't notice.

One person has accounted for these differences by noting that in some cases another person may be named as the parent due to cultural considerations. I will address that soon. Meanwhile I still think they copied it from the Old Testament up to King David and winged it after that.

I also don't believe any geneology that starts with Adam. I don't believe the very long life spans and I don't believe accurate geneologies go way back before the invention of writing.

Yes, yes, we get the idea. You don't believe a single word of the Holy Bible, despite the fact that it is God's Literal Word. We're all very impressed.

I can't wait to see the look on your face when Jesus sends you down to hell, and you get sodomized by satan's huge barbed tallywhacker.

Oh, how Jesus and I will laugh!

[davidbrainfart]

Re: Why atheism is wrong - the shocking and unbiased truth

Originally Posted by DaveTheInfidel
I keep coming back to this. Matthew and Luke both wrote geneologies of Jesus. They agreed on Adam to King David

Have you read the geanealogies?

Yes. I read the whole Bible through when I was 14 years old. I must say the begats make boring reading. At the time I didn't notice that they were different, as I believe most Christians don't notice.

One person has accounted for these differences by noting that in some cases another person may be named as the parent due to cultural considerations. I will address that soon. Meanwhile I still think they copied it from the Old Testament up to King David and winged it after that.

I also don't believe any geneology that starts with Adam. I don't believe the very long life spans and I don't believe accurate geneologies go way back before the invention of writing.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Why atheism is wrong - the shocking and unbiased truth

I keep coming back to this. Matthew and Luke both wrote geneologies of Jesus. They agreed on Adam to King David

Have you read the geanealogies?

[davidbrainfart]

Re: Why atheism is wrong - the shocking and unbiased truth

Dave, why so determined to disbelieve the word of God?

It's not the word of God I doubt; it's the existence of God and it's the Bible. If there is no God, there is no word of God.

My revolt against theism has both an intellectual and an emotional component. Intellectually it makes more sense to believe the universe exists without a creator than that there was a creator who just existed without a creator of his/her own. Emotionally, I have been down your road. It lead to a lot of ridicule from people who did as they pleased while intending to get right with God before they died.

I had an aquaintance about two years older than me who smoked, drank, cussed, and bragged about sexual conquests real or imagined. His single father got him into church once and the preacher tried to get him to come foreward to accept Christ. We must have sung 27 verses of "Just as I am," while Sonny fidgited in his seat. When he left he was the same "unsaved trash" as he was when he came in. A few weeks later he died in a motorcycle accident. One of the burdens that was lifted from me when I read Bertrand Russell's essay "Why I Am Not a Christian" was the notion that this wild child had gone straight to Hell. He didn't deserve that.

You have googled a standard atheist kiddie gotcha off the interwebs and now think you are the awesomest debunker evah!

Actually, I got the one about the contradictory geneologies from Carl Sagan's novel Contact. The heroin was a nonbeliever. My limited mind cannot grasp how both can be true, but there are a couple of assumptions that, if true, could account for that. However, it takes accepting that some things in the Bible cannot be taken literally as we today understand a literal interpretation. (I have not yet answered the response I got to that question on this board.)

If it's in the Bible it's true and cannot be contradictory.

How do you know? If you appeal to the Bible itself for the answer, I still ask "How do you know the Bible's answer is true?" The Bible is actually a collection of religious writings over many years. There were many other writings that were not included in your revered King James Version of the Bible. I don't know if any of the authors imagined that all their writings would be gathered in one book.

If God wants two mutually exclusive things to be simultaneously true then that's small potatoes to the creator of the whole Earth and Firmament and even your sorry, ungrateful self.

How convenient. You don't have to be bothered with contradictions, but if there is a God, I think he can forgive me for having such a limited perspective. There is still the question of how you even know this God exists, especially if you are limited to the Bible.

Haven't we kept counselling you to stop trying to set limits on the power of the Lord? This is why you are confused and are experiencing such weird delusions that God isn't real. No wonder you are so angry.
Posted via Mobile Device

I think I am angry partly for the same reason you are angry. We both have a religious philosophy that is not accepted by the majority and yet to each of us our own philosophy seems crystal clear. I am tired of having to hold my tongue in public and I like to share my insights and if possible keep others from going down such a destructive path as your narrow 17th century Christianity.

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Why atheism is wrong - the shocking and unbiased truth

Dave, why so determined to disbelieve the word of God? You have googled a standard atheist kiddie gotcha off the interwebs and now think you are the awesomest debunker evah!

If it's in the Bible it's true and cannot be contradictory. If God wants two mutually exclusive things to be simultaneously true then that's small potatoes to the creator of the whole Earth and Firmament and even your sorry, ungrateful self.

Haven't we kept counselling you to stop trying to set limits on the power of the Lord? This is why you are confused and are experiencing such weird delusions that God isn't real. No wonder you are so angry.
Posted via Mobile Device

[davidbrainfart]

Re: Why atheism is wrong - the shocking and unbiased truth

[QUOTE=DaveTheInfidel]I keep coming back to this. Matthew and Luke both wrote geneologies of Jesus. They agreed on Adam to King David, then they traced Joseph's lineage through different sons of King David. Was it Matthew who lied or Luke, or was it both of them?

Can't you read? Has God smitten you with illiteracy for marrying a heathen darkie? Your question has been answered before by a True Christian..

I submitted the above quote before I read the reply. I will deal with the reply there, but for now it is sufficient to say I have forced you to acknowledge that there are some parts of the Bible that cannot be taken literally.

And why are we supposed to believe you when you tell us you don't lie, but you won't believe us when we tell you God exists? For God, at least, there's overwhelming evidence.

I don't expect you to believe me. I only expect you to believe that I believe what I am saying and therefore I am not lying. By the same token I believe you believe what you are saying and therefore you are not lying either. At most one of us correct but neither of us is lying.

To you it appears that the evidence for God is overwhelming. To me it appears that all the evidence comes form the Bible but there is no evidence that the Bible is true and much evidence that much of it cannot be true.

Your church is devoted to wilfull ignorance. You'd better hope that God does not punish wilfull ignorance.