I'm a proud atheist

[Celeste]

yes, seriously.

you're all *****.

goodbye.

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I edited this post to remove an offensive word, Celeste. Talk nice, please. ~~ One-eyed Jack

[LinusRed]

Re: I'm a proud atheist

I was an atheist. Then I realized how hollow my life was.

[One-eyed Jack]

Re: I'm a proud atheist

A proud atheist, eh?

Now, a Christian might be curious about how you understand what is good and what is evil.

The Bible is much concerned with questions of right behavior, good behavior, and with the definition of evil.

I understand how an ethical atheist arrives at moral understanding. I am curious whether you do.

So this is a challenge: explain the atheist understanding of good and evil, and how one arrives at that understanding.

~~ OEJ

[Yhalothar]

Re: I'm a proud atheist

"The Bible is much concerned with questions of right behavior, good behavior, and with the definition of evil"

You are right. However the you don't follow alot of what the bible says. You know stoning sabbath breakers is wrong, however the bible claims it's a good idea. So how do you know it's wrong?
A quick look at prisons can show us that the morals of atheists are in no way inferior to those of theists.
I can't tell you where we get our morals or ethics from, (though there are a number of ideas) all I can say is that we definately don't get them from scripture.

[Heretic Hater]

Re: I'm a proud atheist

Most of the Modern laws are based around bible rules. Just look at the 10 Commandments. There all part of the law now-a-days.

However the more obscure parts of the bible are only maintained by the true bible fan boys/girls. So yeah modern law is from scripture, at least in the UK it is

[One-eyed Jack]

Re: I'm a proud atheist

Well, perhaps Celeste can tell me where atheists get their moral understanding. To clarify:

1. Christians get their moral understanding from the teachings of the Bible.

2. Since atheists have no written guidebook, from what moral wellspring do they get their moral understanding?

I'm not interested at this point in slandering either side of the fence. I also believe I have some insight into the development of morality in a system of ethical atheism. I want to see what you guys know and what you don't.

~~ OEJ

[Yhalothar]

Re: I'm a proud atheist

"Just look at the 10 Commandments."

Just look at the Egyptian book of the dead.

[Yhalothar]

Re: I'm a proud atheist

"1. Christians get their moral understanding from the teachings of the Bible."

Apart from leviticus of course, and a few other questionable verses. Such as the ones in my signature. You wouldn't kill children for making fun a prophets baldness right?

"2. Since atheists have no written guidebook, from what moral wellspring do they get their moral understanding?"

Society, darwinian ancestry, I don't go around killing people and stealing things because I wouldn't like to live in a world where people went around stealing and killing.

Also, do you think incest is immoral?

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: I'm a proud atheist

Also, do you think incest is immoral?

Incest became immoral once God judged it so. That's the very point we're trying to make here:
God decides what's moral and not, and if God would decide to change the laws -
Then it could become perfectly acceptable. God decides what's right and wrong, NOT us.

You wouldn't kill children for making fun a prophets baldness right?

No, cause God doesn't command us to.
It was GOD personally who killed those children.

[Yhalothar]

Re: I'm a proud atheist

"God decides what's right and wrong, NOT us."

What a shame that god's been so quiet for the last 2000 years then.

"It was GOD personally who killed those children."

So why did he use bears? Why not just pop them out of existence? This god of yours seems to be awfully inefficient.

Didn't you say I was illogical earlier? I'd like to hear how you came to such a conclusion, apparently you don't know what logic actually is.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: I'm a proud atheist

What a shame that god's been so quiet for the last 2000 years then.

God is most certainly not quiet.
It's only you who doesn't listen and probably discards those who does as lunatics, because you are closeminded.

So why did he use bears? Why not just pop them out of existence? This god of yours seems to be awfully inefficient.

Didn't you say I was illogical earlier? I'd like to hear how you came to such a conclusion, apparently you don't know what logic actually is.

If you had actually witnessed a bear attack you wouldn't call them inefficient..

And I'm very hurt that you think that about me. I really am.

[Yhalothar]

Re: I'm a proud atheist

"It's only you who doesn't listen and probably discards those who does as lunatics, because you are closeminded."

Oh no i'm very openminded, your the closeminded one. Unfortunately for you only evidence is evidence.

"If you had actually witnessed a bear attack you wouldn't call them inefficient"

If it's a bear attack from god, then yes I would call it inefficient. Just like the other 32,000,000 of gods biblical killings, it's very inefficient.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: I'm a proud atheist

Oh no i'm very openminded, your the closeminded one. Unfortunately for you only evidence is evidence.

What are you yapping about? You don't get to decide what's evidence.
You do care about "evidence".. As long as it supports what you say that is, but evidence to the contrary -
You discard it.

If it's a bear attack from god, then yes I would call it inefficient. Just like the other 32,000,000 of gods biblical killings, it's very inefficient.

You obviously haven't read the Bible.. Try doing so before you yap away.
And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up together with Korah, when that company died,
What time the fire devoured two hundred and fifty men: and they became a sign.
Numbers 26:10

[Yhalothar]

Re: I'm a proud atheist

Wow that didn't paste properly. I should of just posted a link, if someone could delete my last post that would be good. (Consummatum est. ~~ OEJ)

"You do care about "evidence".. As long as it supports what you say that is, but evidence to the contrary -
You discard it."

Oh really? Show me some.

"You obviously haven't read the Bible.. Try doing so before you yap away."

Apparently you havn't. At the time of the "flood" the estimated population is 30,000,000. Add that to this http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/godkills.htm
As you see at the top, alot of the killings can't be counted and are therefore left out.

[One-eyed Jack]

Re: I'm a proud atheist

In the name of Christ I rebuke these youngsters for their ignorance!

God used bears as an example of His wrath, to be witnessed by man and heeded. D'oh. That is not especially hard to figure out.

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One path to ethical atheism might be:

1. The atheist recognizes that the universe at large knows neither good nor evil. The tiger-organism kills and eats the child-organism: one organism lives, the other is broken down into its chemical constituents and digested. The event is no more evil or good than is the explosion of a star in the Lesser Magellanic Cloud or the collision of two atoms in the atmosphere over Jamaica.

2. The atheist realizes, however, that human values are valid -- indeed, essential -- to humanity. They are subjective and internal: no science can say whether a painting or a novel or a symphony is beautiful...but that does not mean beauty is an invalid concept, or that it does not exist. Similarly, good and evil are concepts which have a real existence in a human context.

3. However, the ethical atheist must also realize that just as he would not take his understanding of what music is beautiful and what music is not solely from teachers, society, or books, he must define good and evil in his own terms. He must do that as honestly and carefully as he can. His understanding may be informed by great writers, philosophers, teachers, and holy men; but the responsibility for creating his own internal moral beliefs lies with himself.

It troubles me that you write that an atheist takes his beliefs from "society". Remember that good Germans took their beliefs from German society, and helped build Dachau.

You are closer to the mark when you restate Jesus' Golden Rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, as "I don't go around killing people and stealing things because I wouldn't like to live in a world where people went around stealing and killing." That shows a beginning of independent ethical consciousness.

To get back to an earlier point, the ethical atheist might say, "Yes, I understand that the tiger who eats the child gets a full belly and so it it good for the tiger; but I am a human. And so I assert that the death of a child is evil...knowing full well that my assertion is, in universal terms, illogical! I am human, and I say the suffering and needless death of humans is evil."

One of course one extends such a statement to other beings -- the needless suffering of a tiger is evil, too. But we don't feed children to starving tigers in order to ease the tigers' suffering; we make a moral judgment and refrain.

I hope at some point you youngsters learn something about your own chosen belief system. It's one thing to be ignorant of others' beliefs, and something else to misunderstand or ignore the fundamental aspects of your own.

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Naturally, while some false versions of Christianity find a place in Heaven for the "good pagan", that doctrine is utterly unbiblical. It is a FALSE DOCTRINE! The "ethical atheist" is doomed to Hell, where the flames burn eternally and the worm dieth not.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

Repent! Repent your sins, and throw yourselves upon the perfect mercy of the Christ!

~~ OEJ