[Poetic Peter]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

What about this:

Jesus loves the little kiddies
Specially those who fathers thrash
All their bruises black and blue
Are a sign that he loves you
Jesus loves the little kiddies fathers bash

It's pretty good, but.....

Please recite L 2. What's wrong with it?

Does it sound natural?.... no

Would "whom" not be a -little- better, both grammatically and sonically?.... yes

Too bad that's still not ideal..... wth you talkin' 'bout, Willis?

What's best (sounds are best)!

Specially those that fathers thrash

Now all that I dislike is the "Specially". Should be "Especially" unless you must cheat for some poetic meter reason to which I am deaf.

"Especially" or "Specially", ugh. Neither is very good, is it (sound)?

Is either really necessary? In a way, no. Jesus loves all the little kiddies.

Uh oh! (((redundancy alert))) "kiddies" is a diminuative of a diminuative, kid.
To plunk "little" ahead of it,; that isn't really wanted, is it? Are there big kiddies that we've heard about?
kids, little kids, kiddies, big kids; that's about the whole loaf.

-------
It has just turned, a freakin' headache.
Not for me, though!
And we only got to L3.

[Poetic Peter]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

And you shouldn't care either. What I haven't explained is that the purpose of my excercise was to follow a particular pattern.

This really isn't my area -- I'm afraid I always used to avoid poetry if I could, and would do short stories, Shakespeare, or novels in English. And I know that I don't have any real talent for poetry -- one either has it or one doesn't. I do have more ear for it than the likes of Hellsinker, or Mo, if his effort above is anything to go by, and I do know a little bit more technical stuff than they do.

Strict rhyme patterns are, well, restricting, and lead to sing-songy verse. Shakespeare did use iambic pentameter but varied it a lot:

Now is the winter of our discontent
made glorious summer by this sun of York

There are variations there.

I thought that some of you may recognise the pattern I was following. It's a very simple one, but used in some famous -- if not great -- poems.

The Assyrian came down like a wolf on the fold
And his cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold
And the sheen of their spears was like stars on the sea
When the blue wave rolls nightly on deep Galilee.

It is two unstressed syllables followed by one stressed. Byron, I must say has done a better job of organising where his stresses fall than I have. If I worked on mine long enough, I could improve it no doubt. And I wonder how lone Byron took...

I'll say a few things to attone for my teasing review above.
You know your onions. You are a poet in the making.
So am I. You have an educational and general reading background
which I lack. You can and will do a great deal of good work.

I prefer poetry to (my) writing prose. It's easier--gets easier by practice.
And it's always a small-scale result; one that can be polished relatively easily.

Each field has its advantages--sure. But only in poetry can I get in and out
of a reader's head quickly, and not get burned (out) myself, slaving over long, protracted arguments with the language or the direction and continuity.

Our Pastor Pistle--he's a sure enough polymath. The man can exude verse and prose with equal alacrity. And as we know,
his wit in either style (prose or verse) is not exceeded by any of us here. He has reached a enviable level;
one that I have already exceeded, myself.

I think it was once called the

Peter Principle

(obscure, look it up if it seems like I'm boasting. On the contrary...)

[Enobarbus]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

It's pretty good, but.....

Please recite L 2. What's wrong with it?

Does it sound natural?.... no

Would "whom" not be a -little- better, both grammatically and sonically?.... yes

Too bad that's still not ideal..... wth you talkin' 'bout, Willis?

What's best (sounds are best)!

Specially those that fathers thrash

Now all that I dislike is the "Specially". Should be "Especially" unless you must cheat for some poetic meter reason to which I am deaf.

"Especially" or "Specially", ugh. Neither is very good, is it (sound)?

Is either really necessary? In a way, no. Jesus loves all the little kiddies.

Uh oh! (((redundancy alert))) "kiddies" is a diminuative of a diminuative, kid.
To plunk "little" ahead of it,; that isn't really wanted, is it? Are there big kiddies that we've heard about?
kids, little kids, kiddies, big kids; that's about the whole loaf.

-------
It has just turned, a freakin' headache.
Not for me, though!
And we only got to L3.

You are absolutely right -- there is a big problem with line two. I didn't like "especially" and so changed to "specially". And probably went out of the frying pan into the fire. And btw I'm not following any rhyme patten here -- just doing it by ear...

But I'm not concerned about "Little kiddies" -- if it sounds ok, let's not be pedantic And I don't really see it as a diminuative of a diminuative. Kiddie is to kid as kitty is to kitten (sort of). You see, part of my wanting to use little kiddies is to contrast something foolishly kitsch or fluffy-bunnyish with thrash and bash? There's a name for this caper that I forget.

But l 2 is not good enough. But I do prefer the "that" to "who" or "whom".

[Enobarbus]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

Wonderful Brother! It could be the second verse of my original creation!

I missed that post. Thank you. We could make a hymn -- you write one verse, I'll write the next, and with the help of Jesus, we can't go wrong. And any criticism from that homer Peter and I'll rugby tackle him around the knees and you can jump on him when he hits the ground.

I'm sorry I take that back. I have been spending too much time interacting with Ixi and Hellion. I am not a violent man, I swear.

[Poetic Peter]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

There's really nothing wrong in real life with little kiddies.
Yep, I'll allow, and must, that it's stock descriptive everywhere.

Poetic license wasn't even taken--it was only a fair vernacular.
+++++++++++++

Seriously now:


I've started a couple of new threads, self explanatory, adjacent to this thread.

I now beseech Landover leaders to think about the potential
to enlarge Landover's influence by fostering a sort of poety board.

It could, in fact, become a focus by which to gather unsaved ones here;
ones of quality potential.

If we carry this on, it will require multiple threads (say two to start with,
pleasure and critical,
which can be closed when they've bloviated too full , then started anew
(Pleasure no.2; Critical no.2, etc.).

If the general concept appeals, you leaders may decide the details of the deployment.

Think of the tens of thousands of Christian poet-want-to-bes.
We could have them here
and dose inculcate them with Landover guidances!


I say: it's not about poetry so much as it is to get people RIGHT
with GOD. By teaching them to think straighter
(poetry requires crystalized thought),
we teach them to SEE that Landover Baptistry is the only way up.

These are my present humble thoughts.
I'm happy with anything, really, aside from anything elsewhere.

Peter

[Enobarbus]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

PS: metered rhyme in strict abab couplets is not easy to work to success;
the form is inherently trite (by such long familiarity--roses are red, etc)

It's generally best to master unrhymed poetry to some extent.
Metering applied to free verse can delight the ear,
yet many advanced poets do not meter much at all.
There are many poetic tools to employ, to make a poem poetic,
not proesy. We don't yet see here in the Korner so very much advanced metaphor,
nor kinky irony, or high-order stuff other than from that acclaimed author of "Brownie Mousie",
and of course, Pastor Al (Masterstrik)E Epistle.

Simple web searches will show up much in the way of modern poetry's guidelines;
data of real value--of use in our escaping the more cliched or artificed binds of formal forms
which some of our earnest ones are working out here with the expected results.
Readers' stomachs are everting.

I have only just seen this gray bit. I hadn't realised how I had been insulted. You are absolutely right that rhymed stuff of that nature is inherently trite. You could make a comparison say between such stuff and free verse with the difference between a popular song or ballad and classical music -- The one is so limited while the other provides the opportunity to express an almost infinite range of emotions and feeling.

What I had heard though -- not that I'm convinced it's true, and you seem to disagree (I think) is that a study of and attempts to copy the simple forms helps develop an ear for metre and rhythm...

I think I did learn something from that Anapest (I think it is) based on the Assyrian coming down on the fold thing. I learnt that it's not good enough just to have the correct number of syllables, for example, although that was a minor matter really.

You say that many advanced poets do not meter much at all. I am interested in examples of this.

I have "poet" acquaintances who are just very bad prose writers. In fact some of them can't write proper standard English, so they write down a series of fragments and call it "poetry".

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

I missed that post. Thank you. We could make a hymn -- you write one verse, I'll write the next, and with the help of Jesus, we can't go wrong. And any criticism from that homer Peter and I'll rugby tackle him around the knees and you can jump on him when he hits the ground.

I'm sorry I take that back. I have been spending too much time interacting with Ixi and Hellion. I am not a violent man, I swear.

Excellent! Let's run with it!

Verse 3

Jesus hates the little darkies
And welfare junkies who made them
Jesus hates them through and through
So do I and so should you
Jesus hates the nigra junkies in the world


....Take it away!

[Poetic Peter]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

I missed that post. Thank you. We could make a hymn -- you write one verse, I'll write the next, and with the help of Jesus, we can't go wrong. And any criticism from that homer Peter and I'll rugby tackle him around the knees and you can jump on him when he hits the ground.

I'm sorry I take that back. I have been spending too much time interacting with Ixi and Hellion. I am not a violent man, I swear.

A) That's called a progressive poem


B ) They want to man-rape me after all.


C) See B )

[Poetic Peter]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

...I have "poet" acquaintances who are just very bad prose writers. In fact some of them can't write proper standard English, so they write down a series of fragments and call it "poetry".

Yeah, sad, isn't it? But I've been hammered by poets who write what I'd swear,
is prose! And it's a bunch of images, obtuse, verbose, usually uglier than human sin. And these poets are my peers. Go to The Gazebo and see -good poetry- in general. And see why I dislike poetry boards (in general).

Every board sets it own standards.
YOU can be a standard-setter here.
We, as a group of interested, thinking writers,
can decide what works--what fails--and why.

The point of a poem is to deliver a message,
either sublimed truth, or sublimed beauty, or sublimed humor, etc.
Sublimed is the keyword.

Most boards are full of wanky, depressing, high-level insipidness.
The poets I like tend to write outside of their skin (most of the time).
That is, if a "cutter" poet shows up here--she'll see no mercy.
If a "I loved him but he left me" poet shows up here--not much chance for her on the critical front.

If a poet wants to shine off rhymed couplets, OK, but it has to be good and sharp, to rise above such old, tired form.

There is potential without limit to actually create seriously good poetry and poets here. By mentoring and...yes, by stoning the miscreants as needed.

We all need a bit of good, clean exercise.

Peter
pebble

[Enobarbus]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

There's really nothing wrong in real life with little kiddies.
Yep, I'll allow, and must, that it's stock descriptive everywhere.

Poetic license wasn't even taken--it was only a fair vernacular.
+++++++++++++

Seriously now:


I've started a couple of new threads, self explanatory, adjacent to this thread.

I now beseech Landover leaders to think about the potential
to enlarge Landover's influence by fostering a sort of poety board.

It could, in fact, become a focus by which to gather unsaved ones here;
ones of quality potential.

If we carry this on, it will require multiple threads (say two to start with,
pleasure and critical,
which can be closed when they've bloviated too full , then started anew
(Pleasure no.2; Critical no.2, etc.).

If the general concept appeals, you leaders may decide the details of the deployment.

Think of the tens of thousands of Christian poet-want-to-bes.
We could have them here
and dose inculcate them with Landover guidances!


I say: it's not about poetry so much as it is to get people RIGHT
with GOD. By teaching them to think straighter
(poetry requires crystalized thought),
we teach them to SEE that Landover Baptistry is the only way up.

These are my present humble thoughts.
I'm happy with anything, really, aside from anything elsewhere.

Peter

Interesting. You have aroused my interest in poetry. Whether I would want to put an effort into anything more than what I hope may be slightly amusing doggeral, I don't know. Good poetry seems like it would be too much like hard work, and I don't know that even if I put the work in, that I'd really come up with anything worthwhile.

Back to the doggeral. Pastor Zeke's hymn -- another possible verse:

Jesus loves the little children
Above all those that fathers thrash
All the bruises black and blue
Go to prove the Lord loves you
Jesus loves the little children
-- all the children fathers bash!

How do you like my solution to the "especially" problem? Pretty good, aye?

[Enobarbus]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

Excellent! Let's run with it!

Verse 3

Jesus hates the little darkies
And welfare junkies who made them
Jesus hates them through and through
So do I and so should you
Jesus hates the nigra junkies in the world


....Take it away!

I missed this too, hang on!

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

Back to the doggeral. Pastor Zeke's hymn -- another possible verse:

Jesus loves the little children
Above all those that fathers thrash
All the bruises black and blue
Go to prove the Lord loves you
Jesus loves the little children
-- all the children fathers bash!
How do you like my solution to the "especially" problem? Pretty good, aye?

There are too many syllables in that final part, aren't there? There can't be more than 11, if we stick with the meter of the original:

Jesus loves the little children in the world

[Poetic Peter]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

Ah, folks! He's hooked.

He sees that he can salt more import into three poetic words (See Ogden Nash's citation)
than from thirty strainings of prosaic pickel barrel brines

Interesting. You have aroused my interest in poetry.

Whether I would want to put an effort into anything more than what I hope may be slightly amusing doggeral, I don't know. Good poetry seems like it would be too much like hard work, and I don't know that even if I put the work in, that I'd really come up with anything worthwhile.

You already have.

Back to the doggeral. Pastor Zeke's hymn -- another possible verse:

Jesus loves the little children
Above all those that fathers thrash
All the bruises black and blue
Go to prove the Lord loves you
Jesus loves the little children
-- all the children fathers bash!

How do you like my solution to the "especially" problem? Pretty good, aye?

Kudos! I like that new form especially well!
See, the neat thing about this work: the scale is small.
The knotty problems always solve themselves in a bit of time.
It beats crossword puzzles a mile.

It's a lot of fun and it's great mental training.
I never wrote a thing before two years ago.
I wasted all my youth in whoring.
All I have to show for that is a wringer washer in the hallway
and a wife who takes in washing.

Poetry is my temporary-time's peek into pre-heaven,
where and when I'll surely write a golden word
or not.

[Enobarbus]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

Excellent! Let's run with it!

Verse 3

Jesus hates the little darkies
And welfare junkies who made them
Jesus hates them through and through
So do I and so should you
Jesus hates the nigra junkies in the world


....Take it away!

Jesus hates the dirty homers
All the homers of the world
Homers all are an abomination
And hell will be their final station
Jesus hates the filthy homers
-- all the homers of the world!

[Enobarbus]

Re: The Poetasters' Korner

There are too many syllables in that final part, aren't there? There can't be more than 11, if we stick with the meter of the original:

Jesus loves the little children in the world

Sorry, didn't realise we were doing that. I see. I'll have a look at the link, I have forgotten the original.