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  • #61
    Re: Dearborn Baptist Church is at it AGAIN!

    Originally posted by The Revelator View Post
    what if it was in God's plan for you to witness to them?

    Having free will is all about giving you the chance to chose, no one said each consequence had to be fair.
    But what about ignorant heathens - Hindaloos, Chinamen and similar savages - who may live their entire lives without ever encountering a Bible or hearing Christ's message? The Bible is very clear about what happens to non-Christians, for instance in Acts 4:
    Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    Those who live their entire lives without ever encountering Christianity are clearly sinners (Romans 3:23) and cannot be allowed into heaven without accepting Christ. On the other hand, I very much doubt whether they could be said to have made any kind of a choice, let alone a free one.
    O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it--for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.



    God being truth, justice, goodness, beauty, power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence, and death. God being master, man is the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his own effort, he can attain them only through a divine revelation... he who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter, but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.

    Comment

    • #62
      Re: Dearborn Baptist Church is at it AGAIN!

      Originally posted by The Revelator View Post
      what if it was in God's plan for you to witness to them?

      Having free will is all about giving you the chance to chose, no one said each consequence had to be fair.
      Um, you're the one who claims we're all predestined, remember?

      If someone is predestined for Salvation, he'll be saved, no matter what I do.

      And do you really think that you or I could change God's plan? COME ON!

      Finally, a free choice has to be a free choice. What you call free will is coercion. Do you know what coercion is?

      Main Entry: co·erce
      Pronunciation: kO-'&rs
      Function: transitive verb
      Inflected Form(s): co·erced; co·erc·ing
      Etymology: Middle English cohercen, from Anglo-French *cohercer Latin coercEre, from co- + arcEre to shut up, enclose -- more at ARK
      1 : to restrain or dominate by force <religion in the past has tried to coerce the irreligious -- W. R. Inge>
      2 : to compel to an act or choice <was coerced into agreeing>
      3 : to achieve by force or threat <coerce compliance>

      And then there's free will:

      Main Entry: free will
      Function: noun
      1 : voluntary choice or decision <I do this of my own free will>
      2 : freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention
      Hmm, that seems to blow your predestination out the window, doesn't it, Calvinator?

      Free will, OR predestination. You can't have both. If you're predestined, you have no choice.

      Comment

      • #63
        Re: Dearborn Baptist Church is at it AGAIN!

        When I say God predestined I meant God forknew. I believe in free will 100%.

        And where do you get off thinking people are coerced? Look around you at society today. People are living in defiance of God. No one has any respect for God anymore. I think they are given a free will choice if you ask me.

        Comment

        • #64
          Re: Dearborn Baptist Church is at it AGAIN!

          Originally posted by The Revelator View Post
          When I say God predestined I meant God forknew. I believe in free will 100%.

          And where do you get off thinking people are coerced? Look around you at society today. People are living in defiance of God. No one has any respect for God anymore. I think they are given a free will choice if you ask me.
          I believe the prospect of eternal torment in the Lake of Fire may count as coercion? Either they are making an informed choice about God, in which case the prospect of eternal torture will be a factor in their decisions, or, as in the case of the unsaved ignorant jungle bunnies, Japanee and similar savages, they are not making an informed choice, in which case their decision could hardly be described as "free". What about those who are misled by false Churches like the Romanist institution? They believe they are going to Heaven for being good Christians, but in fact they are not. Have they made a free choice?
          O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it--for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.



          God being truth, justice, goodness, beauty, power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence, and death. God being master, man is the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his own effort, he can attain them only through a divine revelation... he who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter, but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.

          Comment

          • #65
            Re: Dearborn Baptist Church is at it AGAIN!

            You may see this all as unfair, but you have to understand that our own sin has done this to us. The devil is trying tod eceive as many people as possible.

            Have you ever hear dof the common expression, "the sins of the father." Well I think it rings true. In the bible, people have chosen to desert God and because of that, countless hundreds of their descendants knew nothing about God or knew a twisted version of Christianity.

            Yes, this is unfair, but it is the product of sin.

            Comment

            • #66
              Re: Dearborn Baptist Church is at it AGAIN!

              Originally posted by The Revelator View Post
              You may see this all as unfair, but you have to understand that our own sin has done this to us. The devil is trying tod eceive as many people as possible.

              Have you ever hear dof the common expression, "the sins of the father." Well I think it rings true. In the bible, people have chosen to desert God and because of that, countless hundreds of their descendants knew nothing about God or knew a twisted version of Christianity.

              Yes, this is unfair, but it is the product of sin.
              And that is exactly why True Christians™ like Brother Temperance and myself work so tirelessly to bring the good news to unsaved scum. False Christianity abounds, and corrupts otherwise good people. Landover Baptist is the only hope for revealing God's Divine Mission for the world.

              I hope you can see the light and join us.
              Who Will Jesus Damn?

              Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

              Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

              Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!

              Comment

              • #67
                Re: Dearborn Baptist Church is at it AGAIN!

                Unless you're located in wisconsin I really dont see how I could actually join your church...

                Comment

                • #68
                  Re: Dearborn Baptist Church is at it AGAIN!

                  Originally posted by The Revelator View Post
                  Unless you're located in wisconsin I really dont see how I could actually join your church...
                  Sir, we have members all over the planet. Brother Temperance does his ministry in Godless England, for example.

                  Acceptance of Christ, renunciation of satan and his works, and getting set up with a robust tithing schedule will put you on the fast track to Salvation©.
                  Who Will Jesus Damn?

                  Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

                  Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

                  Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!

                  Comment

                  • #69
                    Re: Dearborn Baptist Church is at it AGAIN!

                    Woh there buddy. Wait a minute. Are you saying I have to tithe to attain salvation? I think not.

                    I already have salvation through Jesus Christ. And I dont need to tithe here ot maintain that salvation....

                    Comment

                    • #70
                      Re: Dearborn Baptist Church is at it AGAIN!

                      Originally posted by The Revelator View Post
                      Woh there buddy. Wait a minute. Are you saying I have to tithe to attain salvation? I think not.

                      I already have salvation through Jesus Christ. And I dont need to tithe here ot maintain that salvation....
                      Fine for you. If you want to cheat JESUS, go right ahead.
                      Emeritus Professor of the Christ Jesus Chair of Theology at Landover Baptist University.
                      "God loves you. Let us arrange for you to meet Him".
                      Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth.--Psalms 58:6


                      Comment

                      • #71
                        Re: Dearborn Baptist Church is at it AGAIN!

                        Originally posted by The Revelator View Post
                        Woh there buddy. Wait a minute. Are you saying I have to tithe to attain salvation? I think not.

                        I already have salvation through Jesus Christ. And I dont need to tithe here ot maintain that salvation....
                        Wrong again poindexter.

                        Lev 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, [even] of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

                        Num 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, [even] a tenth [part] of the tithe.

                        And my favorite:

                        Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

                        Surely you don't want to rob Jesus. You have taken up quite a bit of our bandwidth with your false Christian ranting and raving. Fair is fair.
                        Who Will Jesus Damn?

                        Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

                        Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

                        Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!

                        Comment

                        • #72
                          Re: Dearborn Baptist Church is at it AGAIN!

                          Originally posted by The Calvinator View Post
                          When I say God predestined I meant God forknew. I believe in free will 100%.
                          You said and insisted upon "predestination", not "foreknowledge". They're two different things.

                          In predestination, which you supported wholeheartedly yesterday, God creates people intending before He creates them that they will be tortured for eternity. This, in your mind, is apparently sick and demented behavior.

                          In foreknowledge, which you support wholeheartedly today, God creates people knowing before He creates them that He will torture them for eternity, and creates them anyway. This, in your mind, is an expression of His love for all humanity.

                          Sound about right?

                          Sounds like semantics to me. Either God hates most people, as we say, or God is a sick weirdo who likes to make Himself sad, as you say.

                          Either way, God will torture the vast majority of His "beloved" creation for eternity for not 'choosing' to follow Him based on either incomplete or incorrect information, deceit, or a complete dearth of information.

                          2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

                          11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

                          Tell me, which God is "sending strong delusion" (trickery) to people so he can damn them? Is it your God, who loves everybody but is a sick weirdo, or our God, who is honest about hating most people because they don't follow Him?

                          Our God, who hates idolators, turns them into homosexuals so He will have one more reason to condemn them:

                          Romans 1:22-27
                          22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

                          23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
                          24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
                          25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
                          26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

                          Why would your God, the all-loving sick weirdo, do that? So He could be extra sad when He cast them into eternal torture?

                          IS YOUR GOD AN EMO?!

                          You may see this all as unfair, but you have to understand that our own sin has done this to us. The devil is trying tod eceive as many people as possible.

                          Have you ever hear dof the common expression, "the sins of the father." Well I think it rings true. In the bible, people have chosen to desert God and because of that, countless hundreds of their descendants knew nothing about God or knew a twisted version of Christianity.

                          Yes, this is unfair, but it is the product of sin.
                          I don't believe we said anything about fair.

                          And don't go blaming Satan for doing what God created him to do, which is trick as many sinners as possible into eternal Hellfire!

                          After all, since God knew before creating Satan what Satan would do, He therefore created Satan TO do those things.

                          It's very simple: God hates most people. If you plan to follow God, you can't be projecting your beliefs about what you think He should do, if He would only be who you want Him to be. He'll do what He wants, including creating people just to torture for His own amusement:

                          Proverbs 16:4
                          The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

                          God made Satan to trick people, and God makes sinners to torture. God's not all goodness and light; get used to it.

                          Comment

                          • #73
                            Re: Dearborn Baptist Church is at it AGAIN!

                            You guys are so blinded by hatred.....You know, I wonder...

                            Do you guys say God hates most people so you can justify your own hatred?

                            If you remember, JESUS IS GOD. AND HE TOLD US TO LOVE. He, in turn, also loved.

                            Christ died for all of us, becuase he loves all of us.

                            Ephesians 3:18 -talks about how huge the love of Christ is.
                            Romans 14:15 -talks about how you should not hate your neighbor because CHRIST DIED FOR HIM.
                            Ephesians 5:2 - Reminds us that Christ died for us all through love.
                            1 John 3:23 - another reminder for us to love our enemies!
                            1 john 3:16 - Christ laid down his life out of love for us, we out to do the same to our brethren.

                            God created us with love, and he still loves us all. To say that God created people out of hate goes completely against his character.

                            Comment

                            • #74
                              Re: Dearborn Baptist Church is at it AGAIN!

                              Originally posted by The Revelator View Post
                              You guys are so blinded by hatred.....You know, I wonder...

                              Do you guys say God hates most people so you can justify your own hatred?

                              If you remember, JESUS IS GOD. AND HE TOLD US TO LOVE. He, in turn, also loved.

                              Christ died for all of us, becuase he loves all of us.

                              Ephesians 3:18 -talks about how huge the love of Christ is.
                              Romans 14:15 -talks about how you should not hate your neighbor because CHRIST DIED FOR HIM.
                              Ephesians 5:2 - Reminds us that Christ died for us all through love.
                              1 John 3:23 - another reminder for us to love our enemies!
                              1 john 3:16 - Christ laid down his life out of love for us, we out to do the same to our brethren.

                              God created us with love, and he still loves us all. To say that God created people out of hate goes completely against his character.
                              Nice hippie speech about how we should love other people, without touching one bit on the points I've raised about God hating most humans. Interesting attempt at deflection.

                              So, please explain God's profound love, which causes Him to create people to torture for all eternity, and which causes Him to trick people into following the wrong path so He may torture even more people for all eternity.

                              Yes, explain to us how this whole tricking-into-torture thing is an expression of profound love.

                              Does your church tell you that God is using humans in another bet with Satan, to see who can collect the most souls before the end of time? After all, He let Satan kill off Job's family and torture Job just to win a bet (which, being omniscient, He already knew He would win).
                              Last edited by OnYourKnees; 02-06-2007, 06:35 PM.

                              Comment

                              • #75
                                Re: Dearborn Baptist Church is at it AGAIN!

                                Originally posted by The Revelator View Post
                                You guys are so blinded by hatred.....You know, I wonder...

                                Do you guys say God hates most people so you can justify your own hatred?

                                If you remember, JESUS IS GOD. AND HE TOLD US TO LOVE. He, in turn, also loved.

                                Christ died for all of us, becuase he loves all of us.

                                Ephesians 3:18 -talks about how huge the love of Christ is.
                                Romans 14:15 -talks about how you should not hate your neighbor because CHRIST DIED FOR HIM.
                                Ephesians 5:2 - Reminds us that Christ died for us all through love.
                                1 John 3:23 - another reminder for us to love our enemies!
                                1 john 3:16 - Christ laid down his life out of love for us, we out to do the same to our brethren.

                                God created us with love, and he still loves us all. To say that God created people out of hate goes completely against his character.
                                Friend, I only hate who Jesus tells me to hate.

                                I TRULY, want to be His disciple. Don't you?

                                Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

                                Why don't you do what Jesus said?

                                Don't you want eternal life?

                                John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

                                Do you just go around loving everyone? You see that on at least 2 occasions Jesus said we are to hate ourselves.

                                Doesn't that pretty much tell you how you are to love your neighbour?

                                Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

                                This makes perfect sense, don't you think. Jesus said to love our neighbour as ourselves, and to hate ourselves; therefore, Jesus said to hate your neighbour. But THERE'S MORE!!!

                                I have no love for anything except the LORD. You seem to be robbing God of all of your love. Why do you do this?

                                Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

                                Imagine your love to be like a 6 pack of beer. Now, let's look at Matthew 22:37 and 39.

                                Matthew 22:37 Thou shalt give all your beer to the Lord.

                                Matthew 22:39 Thou shalt give beer to your neighbour as you give to yourself.

                                Well, Jesus said the Greatest Commandment is to Love the Lord with ALL, so when I give all my beer to the Lord, I have no beer for myself or my neighbour.

                                If I have no beer for myself, or my neighbour, or my family... then guess what, I can be Jesus disciple. (Luke 14:26)

                                Why do you rob Jesus of your beer?

                                YIC
                                V
                                Judges 9:21 And Jotham ran away, and fled, and went to Beer, and dwelt there, for fear of Abimelech his brother.

                                Comment

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