Avoiding The Truth: My Rant

**Ezekiel Bathfire** · 05-16-2008, 12:03 PM

Re: Why True Christians™ Shouldn't Care

Originally posted by AVoiceofTruth View Post

So, Pastor Ezekiel, a.k.a. the "Gentile...oops...! Gentle one..."

Pastor Ezekiel may or may not reply, it’s a matter for him, but in the meantime:

...why are you cutting people down...the Bible says it many time..."I will send them a strong delusion so they will believe a lie..." and

(a) ever thought that you could be the “strong delusion"? (b)Landover Baptist accepts KJV as the inerrant Word of God and preaches the same.

Romans 1:26
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature
[various sinners]
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. "

So pipe down...there is nothing that YOU or I can do about it.
Homosexuality is wrong. DUH!!!
So is adultery, stealing, pride, self-righteousness, etc.
But God said it would happen, so quit trying to play God and think you're going to make a difference by name calling.

God does not like it, neither should the followers of God. We should try our best to gather in the lost sheep. It is no use gathering the sheep in if they merely stray again; they must be rebuked and taught better.

Funny, I bet you guys encourage tithing too. Tithing was NEVER for people who worked for wages...only farmers. The collection for the saints(not for the preachers) that Paul was talking about was for believers who were in a land where there was famine, so they were helping...GIVING, not tithing...and again, tithe means 1/10th, not 1/10 of income.

God is timeless, clearly His Voice echoes down the centuries. To an extent we are all still farmers; what we do is to enable the farmer to earn and ourselves to live. It is merely that we have moved away from an agrarian society, we are nevertheless dependant upon the land for all our wealth.

And what was the widow's mite? Or have you some insight that enables you to know that she own 500 head of prime beef cattle?

Read it...God is talking to the LEADERS...not the nation.

And the leaders, if they take note will impose God’s Law on the masses. Where’s your problem?

By the way, I sure hope you don't believe in the Trinity Doctrine. If it's true that God is not the author of confusion, then He most certainly is NOT the author of that false doctrine.

A little study on that, will show you it is straight from the Catholic Church itself. Type "trinity doctrine origin" on Google.com, and check out all you want where it came from.

Just because you can’t understand it and are unwilling to accept it through faith, does not make it wrong. The corollary of your argument would be that if you do not understand it, it must be wrong.

If you believe in the trinity, I sadly say "Catholicism is your mother".

What arrant illogical balderdash and garbage. Your thought processes are extremely poor. In its evil deceptions the church of Rome has taken wholesale passages from The Bible that it thinks it can twist to its own ends. Because the servant of the antichrist claims various passages and beliefs as we do, does that make us wrong? No!

And you do well to remember this. Every single time Jesus said "Ye hypocrites, you pharisees..." woe to you. He was talking to RELIGIOUS LEADERS, not sinners.

See above for reasons on addressing leaders

And I read quite a few posts here, and I'm clueless as to what you guys believe in.

Yes, there are some who just will not think or understand.

You say the Bible is the Word of God. Hmmm...last I checked, in Revelation, Jesus said HE is the Word of God.

What is that supposed to mean? Christ is the embodiment of God’s Word. The written record of God’s Word, dictated by Him, is The Bible KJV1611.

All scripture is inspired by God, and is profitable....Paul didn't say it was all true...

So you are saying that something that Paul did not say proves your point? I’m sorry, you’ve lost me. On that basis, because Paul did not say that you should not push a toothbrush up your ass, you should do it? Get real!

as a matter of fact, Jeremiah himself said the scribes had polluted the scriptures.

Now as the Bible was written after jeremiah, it is a bit obvious that in dictating the Bible, God would have seen to it that the errors were corrected. He then gave us the KJV1611

If you say the Bible is without error, you make God a liar, and that's no place I'd like to be.

From the way you’re writing, I think that you’re going to be there whether you like it or not!

By the way, I have 2 questions, maybe someone here can help.

If God isn't a respector of persons, why'd he choose Israel?

Where is the link between respect and Israel – he made them suffer enough in the wilderness, he allowed armies to defeat them. The point here is that Israel was taught by God how to get it right – when they did that, like any good father, He smiled on His people.

Did God tell Moses and Israel to make sacrifices to him and offerings when he brought them out of Egypt? The Bible says he did, but Jeremiah's book says this...

Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

Jer 8:8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

Again I’m losing you on this one. I’ve marked in red the bit over which you are stumbling. I think any contradiction here is more apparent than real – it’s just a question of when he did it.

The word "vain" is from the Hebrew word "sheqer" which means:

sheqer
BDB Definition:
1) lie, deception, disappointment, falsehood
1a) deception (what deceives or disappoints or betrays one)
1b) deceit, fraud, wrong
1b1) fraudulently, wrongfully (as adverb)
1c) falsehood (injurious in testimony)
1c1) testify falsehood, false oath, swear falsely
1d) falsity (of false or self-deceived prophets)
1e) lie, falsehood (in general)
1e1) false tongue
1f) in vain
Part of Speech: noun masculine

KJV1611 says all anyone needs to know Brother – we don’t need your speculative opinions here.

An easier interpretation from a the Modern King James:

Garbage, as I said, it’s KJV1611, the rest of the publications have traduced the Word of God.

First of all, you're dirt, I'm dirt.

I can sympathize with the latter part of the statement only.

I saw some people come in here asking very valid questions, looking for truth.

…and so you came as a false prophet to mislead them?

You should rejoice! The end is almost here. No more tears.

I assume that your interpretation of a prophecy (which you know no one should do) is because God has spoken to you?

**Nobar King** · 05-16-2008, 12:14 PM

Re: Why True Christians™ Shouldn't Care

Avoiding the truth: Your argument was going well until I got to this part: "The world sucks cuz". Now I have lost interest in your argument. You're 17, still?

**Pastor Ezekiel** · 05-16-2008, 12:31 PM

Re: Avoiding The Truth: My Rant

Our beliefs can be found in three places. The pages of this Godly forum, The Holy KJV1611 Bible, and HERE. There is no mystery about what we believe. We follow EVERY word of the Bible, not just the ones liberals like you say we should follow. And before going on to make an even bigger fool out of yourself, you probably should read THIS post. It will probably answer many of your questions.

May I suggest that you make a thread of your own in the "introductions" section, so that our congregation might welcome you fully?

**AVoiceofTruth** · 05-18-2008, 10:06 PM

Re: Avoiding The Truth: My Rant

Ezekiel Bathfire, you said:

(a) ever thought that you could be the “strong delusion"? (b)Landover Baptist accepts KJV as the inerrant Word of God and preaches the same.

God does not like it, neither should the followers of God. We should try our best to gather in the lost sheep. It is no use gathering the sheep in if they merely stray again; they must be rebuked and taught better.

No, I do not believe I'm the strong delusion, but thanks for your concern.
You may have misunderstood me. I do NOT condone sin, not for a minute. Of course we're to hate sin, a child understands that.

Sadly, most adults don't. "Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

I re-read my post, it was late, and I wasn't as clear as I thought when I first wrote it. Sorry for that

First of all, we should be FAR MORE upset at Christians who fornicate, drink, lie, gossip, etc than we should at homeless people who've never heard the truth. The thing that upset me, is when Pastor Ezekiel said homeless people are rapists, pedophiles, trash, etc. That my friend, is unrighteous judgment. I'm not smart enough to know someone's life history simply by looking at them. So unless Pastor Ezekiel has some "divine" sense and is able to know someone's history, beliefs, etc simply by looking at them(I thought only Jesus had that insight), then that is unrighteous no matter how you look at it, or how many scriptures you read.

Again, sin is NOT to be tolerated. I agree. Unfortunately, even if we love someone(family members for instance), doesn't mean they're going to stop sinning. My heart breaks for relatives that don't believe, but just because I love them, doesn't mean they're going to choose the right way.

Your response to my tithing statement:

God is timeless, clearly His Voice echoes down the centuries. To an extent we are all still farmers; what we do is to enable the farmer to earn and ourselves to live. It is merely that we have moved away from an agrarian society, we are nevertheless dependant upon the land for all our wealth.

And what was the widow's mite? Or have you some insight that enables you to know that she own 500 head of prime beef cattle?

The widow's mite. In Mark 12:38-44. Actually, it was 2 mites. A mite was worth less than a quadrans , the smallest Roman coin. Witnessing the donations made by the rich men, Jesus highlights how a poor widow donates only two mites, the least valuable coins available at the time. How are the least valuable coins going to help a church? They aren't. She didn't do it to help the church, she did it to please God. Who knows what led her to do it, perhaps the "still small voice" although now I'm speculating. She gave everything....all she had. NOT a TENTH. So even that, according to the definition of tithe(1/10) wasn't a tithe. It was an offering...free will, giving everything she had. When's the last time any of us(including me) gave every dollar we had to the church? That, is faith.

And here again, I'm misunderstood. Giving is awesome. We're supposed to give. We're to encourage people to give. Absolutely, I agree. But, to tell people they're cursed because they don't tithe is WRONG...study yourself on tithing. Read every single passage on tithing. Ask yourself these questions, "Who gave the tithes? What did they tithe? What was the reason?". As I said before, a child could answer those questions...and by the way, unless you're a Levite priest, tithes aren't for you. AND, the tithes were kept in a storehouse, NOT the synagogue. IT WAS FOOD.

And religion isn't going to church, not even a little. Going to church isn't wrong, but telling people God's mad at them for not going to church IS wrong.

"James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. "

Nothing about going into a building every Sunday and giving your money for a Pastor's new desk, or computer, or to pay his house payment.

Now, if a pastor asks the congregation if they'd like to give to help him become a full time pastor, more power to him. Nothing wrong with that at all. BUT, to tell them they are required to pay him 10% of their income or they're cursed, is downright wicked. Paul, chose to remain a tentmaker and preach on the Sabbath, so he wouldn't be a burden to others. Now THAT, is awesome! Did Jesus ever tell people to give him money? Nope, he only "told" a fish to. lol Good fish, you listened! Open your mouth, give me a coin.

Your response to trinity:

Just because you can’t understand it and are unwilling to accept it through faith, does not make it wrong. The corollary of your argument would be that if you do not understand it, it must be wrong.

What arrant illogical balderdash and garbage. Your thought processes are extremely poor. In its evil deceptions the church of Rome has taken wholesale passages from The Bible that it thinks it can twist to its own ends. Because the servant of the antichrist claims various passages and beliefs as we do, does that make us wrong? No!

Do you believe that God is NOT the author of confusion? I do. I have as yet to find ANYONE, just ONE person, that can explain the trinity clearly to anyone. Can you explain it? I must have missed the Bible verse where it says you have to be intelligent to be saved.

But, finally the trinity explained:

Christ, according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity, the Father being the first and the Holy Ghost third.

Each of these persons is God. Christ is his own father and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both.

The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten--just the same before as after. Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his son.

The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but was equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded, that is to say, before he existed, but he is of the same age as the other two.

So it is declared that the Father is God, and the Son God and the Holy Ghost God,and that these three Gods make one God. According to the celestial multiplication table,once one is three, and three times one is one, and according to heavenly subtraction if we take two from three, three are left. The addition is equally peculiar,if we add two to one we have but one. Each one is equal to himself and the other two. Nothing ever was, nothing ever can be more perfectly idiotic and absurd than the dogma of the Trinity. How is it possible to prove the existence of the Trinity? Is it possible for a human being,who has been born but once, to comprehend, or to imagine the existence of three beings, each of whom is equal to the three ? Think of one of these beings as the father of one, and think of that one as half human and all God,and think of the third as having proceeded from the other two, and then think of the three as one.Think that after the father begot the son, the father was still alone,and after the Holy Ghost proceeded from the father and the son, the father was still alone- because there never was and never will be but one God. At this point, absurdity having reached its limit, nothing more can be said except "Let us pray."

You say:

Yes, there are some who just will not think or understand.

Understand what? Confusion? Explain it to the world in a way a child can understand, and perhaps I'll believe. We're told to "test or try the spirits.."
Ok, that's the spirit of confusion, and I won't accept it. So, was Jesus female? In Genesis (the version of creation by God, NOT the Lord(Jehovah)God...

"Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. "

Male and female, NOT Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

By the way, In the beginning God(elohim...plural of God), Jehovah God, Son of God, or Wisdom?

1. In the beginning God, Genesis 1:1 [created Adam(mankind)] on 6th day- after everything else was created.

2. Jehovah God, created man first, then formed the beasts.

3. In the beginning Wisdom(feminine..SHE)...

"Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me(wisdom) in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Pro 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
Pro 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
Pro 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Pro 8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
Pro 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
Pro 8:32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
Pro 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
Pro 8:34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
Pro 8:35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
Pro 8:36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death."

Houston, we have a problem. Jesus said HE was the way. Now, before Him, it was Wisdom that claimed to be the way, and Wisdom is ALWAYS referred to as a woman. Hmmm...what to do, what to do...

In the beginning was the Word, etc. etc. etc. So, in this "inerrant" Bible, what was in the beginning? Is the Holy Spirit wisdom in disguise? You can blaspheme against the son, just not the Holy Spirit.

By the way, answer me this, I challenge you:

How many Israelite men from the people in exile were of Adonikam?

Search "Adonikam" and you'll get your answer.

You said:

So you are saying that something that Paul did not say proves your point? I’m sorry, you’ve lost me. On that basis, because Paul did not say that you should not push a toothbrush up your ass, you should do it? Get real!

in response to me saying " All scripture is inspired by God, and is profitable....Paul didn't say it was all true..."

Ok, first of all, "2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness."

You guys swear more than non believers. Yet tell people they're sinning. Hmmm...what to do? what to do?

But that's your thing, I guess. You said Paul didn't say that. Well, my friend, that makes you a liar...unless you aren't scholarly enough to know that 3 dots (...) means I left the rest out to make it shorter, so, if ignorance is your plea, I'll quote the WHOLE scripture from Paul out of 2nd Timothy for you.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

There, Paul said it. Of course, you'll probably try to get off on a technicality, which is fine, it'll just show what you're about and where your true belief lies.

It doesn't say ALL scripture is true...as a matter of fact, Paul in another section warns against certain "stories""

"Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. "

You said:

Now as the Bible was written after jeremiah, it is a bit obvious that in dictating the Bible, God would have seen to it that the errors were corrected. He then gave us the KJV1611

I wasn't talking about the Bible, when referring to Jeremiah. I was talking about the book and law of Moses. Now who's misleading?

*The Book of Jeremiah was written between 630 and 580 B.C.
*Bible scholars believe that Genesis was written by Moses, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, during the forty years that the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness (1450 - 1410 B.C.)

Jeremiah said " the scribes turn the law into a lie"....that's a paraphrase...read my original post for exact scripture.

You said:

Where is the link between respect and Israel – he made them suffer enough in the wilderness, he allowed armies to defeat them. The point here is that Israel was taught by God how to get it right – when they did that, like any good father, He smiled on His people.

I agree, God tells people how to get right. You are 100% correct.

Except, He didn't tell the Egyptians how to get right, or the Philistines, or anyone else. He only led Israel. If God wanted everyone to follow him, love him, obey him, and he's NOT a respector of persons, why didn't He speak to the other people? That's what my question is. I've never found the answer and probably never will.

Again I’m losing you on this one. I’ve marked in red the bit over which you are stumbling. I think any contradiction here is more apparent than real – it’s just a question of when he did it.

KJV1611 says all anyone needs to know Brother – we don’t need your speculative opinions here.

I said, "You're dirt, I'm dirt".

You said,

I can sympathize with the latter part of the statement only.

So, you can sympathize with the fact that I'm dirt and you're not? Maybe you're BETTER than everyone, and you're the exception...maybe you're the 2nd Elijah. But, I DID use the wrong word in my tiredness and haste, but unless you're chalked full of pride or simply unintelligent, you(if you know the Bible like you say you do) know what I meant. But, in case you didn't, here's the verses:

Psa 103:14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.

Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Except you, you claim NOT to be of the dust. You're the exception to God's statements about men.

…and so you came as a false prophet to mislead them?

False prophet? Where'd you get that?

I assume that your interpretation of a prophecy (which you know no one should do) is because God has spoken to you?

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Herein lies the problem...we're told to be watchful, there will be signs...then we're told there will be no signs. Also, the book of Revelation says:

"Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. "

So, if those words weren't sealed, everyone that's a believer should be able to understand it.

Daniel was told:

"Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. "

Now, we're NOT to understand Daniel's prophecy til the end of time. But Revelation, says NOT to seal, which according to KJV with Strong's numbers comes from the Greek word:

sfrag-id'-zo
From G4973; to stamp (with a signet or private mark) for security or preservation (literally or figuratively); by implication to keep secret, to attest: - (set a, set to) seal up, stop.

One last thing, when I said:

"Jer 8:8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain."

The word "vain" is from the Hebrew word "sheqer" which means:

sheqer
BDB Definition:
1) lie, deception, disappointment, falsehood
1a) deception (what deceives or disappoints or betrays one)
1b) deceit, fraud, wrong
1b1) fraudulently, wrongfully (as adverb)
1c) falsehood (injurious in testimony)
1c1) testify falsehood, false oath, swear falsely
1d) falsity (of false or self-deceived prophets)
1e) lie, falsehood (in general)
1e1) false tongue
1f) in vain
Part of Speech: noun masculine"

You came back and said:

KJV1611 says all anyone needs to know Brother – we don’t need your speculative opinions here.

How is that MY opinion? KJV1611 says:

"Jer 8:8 How doe ye say, We are wise, and the Law of the Lord is with vs? Loe, certainly, in vaine made he it, the pen of the scribes is in vaine."

They translated it according to Hebrew scriptures and some Aramaic. If anything, you criticize the very scholars that gave you the KJV. They're the ones that said that the word "vain" or "vaine" comes from the Hebrew word "sheqer" which means, "lie, deceit, deception, false, etc".

Not my opinion in the least. It's 100% THEIR opinion, if that's what you want to call it that, of what the word "sheqer" means.

Noblar King wrote"

Avoiding the truth: Your argument was going well until I got to this part: "The world sucks cuz". Now I have lost interest in your argument. You're 17, still?

I'm 17 because I abbreviated the word "cuz"? Nope, I'm 38, so I see you're not a fortuneteller, or a chosen one. Had you been either, you'd have been able to tell me my name, birthday, age, height and weight. But, you tried, Good job

You will NOT however be able to apply for the job at carnivals and fairs...you know the job I'm talking about don't you?

You won't be able to be the guy that runs around saying, "Fool the guesser, win a prize!". They're not very good at guessing ages either, so don't feel bad.

God said the world would get awful, didn't he? He said these things must come to pass. I didn't say it, but I believe Him.

There is nothing you or I can do about it. It's God's will...NOT ours.

But, while we're here, we're told to "bless them that persecute you, love those that hate you, etc."

Our battle isn't against flesh and blood...other human beings, but against...

"Eph 6:12 For wee wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darknes of this world, against spirituall wickednes in high places. "

That's from the KJV1611 version, if you're wondering about the misspellings.

People are afflicted with spirits, that's why they do/act/say the things they do. It's NOT them, it's the spirits that are in them. Jesus had to cast many of them out of people before the people could change. Satan's stronger/smarter and more powerful than any of us. Nonbelievers especially stand no chance against him. They have no discernment.

Pastor Ezekiel, in your sig, you mention people who will not inherit the Kingdom...you have "PROUD" people listed.

What's the definition of proud? "Appearing above others".

I'm no better than anyone. I sin. I don't want to, I don't hang out with worldly people, I don't drink, commit adultery, fornicate...BUT, when I'm angry or hit my hand w/a hammer sometimes I cuss. I'm not supposed to. Sometimes when I look at a beautiful woman, I lust. I'm not supposed to. Sometimes, when faced with embarassment, I lie a little. I'm not supposed to. I don't do any of these on a regular basis, and I sure don't EVER WANT TO DO ANY OF THEM. But I do. And I get real hard on myself, and put myself down constantly for it.

But then, I remember, "all have sinned"...that's ALL of us...you and me and everyone else. So, knowing I sin, how dare I condemn other people and call myself better.

"James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

I've offended in one point, so I'm guilty of all. So are you, by not forgiving...a direct commandment by Jesus himself. Forgiving people is SO tough. It's a constant battle. God doesn't command perfection...that's impossible. What He has always required is "obedience and effort".

If I love my wife, will I commit adultery against her? No.
If I love my wife, will I do things for her without having to be told? Absolutely.
If I love my wife, will I try to offend her? Nope.

If I love God, will I continue in sin? Nope. I WILL sin, but I won't want to, and I won't keep doing it.
If I love God, will I do things for Him without people having to tell me what to do? Absolutely.
If I love God, will I try to offend Him? Nope.

God is love. That's the last thing He commanded me, is to love. Him, then others.

So, unless I want to offend Him, I better keep praying that he "teaches me His love" NOT my definition of love, and learn to help others, and simply stay away from those who want no part of Him, after they've been told.

I don't need to call them names, I don't need to hate(that's what Satan wants), and it's not my place to judge or revenge.

Judging or revenging puts me in a position where I almost think I'm God. It's not my war...the battle is the Lord's. He decides who to bless, who to punish, who to repay. NOT me. I refuse to let myself be that proud.

I know my place. And you'll probably come back and say, "You're judging us". But, that's a lie from the pit.

Judge righteous judgment. If someone tells one lie, I'm not going to run around saying "this person's a liar, stay away from him." Especially not a non-believer who's never been told the truth.

Now, if I see a fellow Christian, who repeatedly lies and sins, and I warn them they're NOT to do that, and they continue...I'm supposed to go to fellow believers and warn them. Then, together, we're to confront them, and if they STILL don't want to stop, we're supposed to get them out of the body of the church, cuz they'll harm it.

Someone who doesn't love God, will sin, and they'll love it, and they'll even try to find Bible verses to support their cause.

Here's the classic one..."God wants me to be happy."

What a lie from the pit. I don't see any verse(maybe I'm wrong), that says,
"Thus saith the Lord, I want you to be happy."

I do see that we will BE happy ONLY IF we listen to Him. Big difference.

Also, some people will say, "God knows my heart."

Oh boy! That's scary ground there. That's why I ask for forgiveness everyday, because my heart is:

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

My heart, your heart, everyone's heart.

I hate the fact that God knows my heart! It's embarassing. Now, I pray and ask for forgiveness, strength and wisdom constantly, knowing beforehand, I'll have this wicked heart and flesh until the day I die, and all I can do, is ask Him for the strength to overcome as He helps(especially in this day and age, where you see disgusting, wicked, perverseness everywhere you look).

So, anyway, pray for each other, forgive so God will forgive, keep the faith, rely on him and not on OUR understanding, and the greatest of these is LOVE. Not hate, and unforgiveness.

But, everything in moderation right? Love, while hating sin. Forgive, because you are forgiven...NOT because you're tolerating someone else's sins. Don't ever tolerate sin, but always remember,

I'm worthy of death, you're worthy, everyone deserves it...so say otherwise is calling God a liar. I'm not better than you, I'm no better than a murderer, it's NOT about how good I am. It's about having faith that God was merciful enough to extend salvation to those who accept it...and only the truly appreciative person will cease from constant, disgusting, perverse abominations.

I respect and love God enough to try my hardest, because what He did...not because I could ever earn in.

It's gratitude that helps me not want to sin. Gratitude, love and fear of what would've happened had he not done what he did.

So, hate me if you want, I don't hate you. Sometimes I feel like hating people, but I pray, and God helps me get over it.

Anger's tough. Anger's NOT a sin. But it sure leads to a lot of them.

God Bless You,

Eddy

**AVoiceofTruth** · 05-18-2008, 10:13 PM

Re: Avoiding The Truth: My Rant

By the way, the reason I asked you to answer this:

How many Israelite men from the people in exile were of Adonikam?

...goes back to my point that anyone who says the Bible is INNERANT(without error),
and that God wrote it, makes God a liar. He inspired people to write scripture. People CAN lie, and do so for whatever reasons. Probably because the "heart is desperately wicked...".

There are errors everywhere, so maybe God wanted it to contain errors, so we would
"study to show ourselves approved."

An error is an error. To look at an error and to say it's not an error makes me a liar. And liars won't have any part in the kingdom, right?

**Pastor Billy-Reuben** · 05-19-2008, 12:47 AM

Re: Avoiding The Truth: My Rant

Originally posted by AVoiceofTruth View Post

...goes back to my point that anyone who says the Bible is INNERANT(without error),
and that God wrote it, makes God a liar. He inspired people to write scripture. People CAN lie, and do so for whatever reasons. Probably because the "heart is desperately wicked...".

The Bible is GOD'S HOLY WORD. By claiming that it is full of errors and lies, you are calling God a LIAR and saying that His Word is untrustworthy.

We know that GOD'S HOLY WORD is reliable because He promised to keep his Word pure.

Ps 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

The King James Bible was the seventh translation of the Bible into modern English. Purified Seven Times. The King James Bible is the inerrant Word of God, and to claim otherwise is to call God a liar.

We also have this promise from God, but you would have us believe that God broke this promise:

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If the Bible contained errors and lies as you claim, then all scripture would not given by inspiration of God, nor would all of it be profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, or for instruction in righteousness.

Originally posted by AVoiceofTruth View Post

How many Israelite men from the people in exile were of Adonikam?

You have revealed your true colors. You are yet another Atheist trying to pass yourself off as a Christian in order to mock us, and who has seen the Skeptic's Annotated Bible and considered it to be the be-all and end-all of disproving Christianity. Here are the two verses that supposedly "contradict" each other.

Ezra 2:13 The children of Adonikam, six hundred sixty and six.
Neh 7:18 The children of Adonikam, six hundred threescore and seven.

The first verse refers to the census conducted by Ezra when the people left Babylon, and the second verse refers to the census conducted by Nehemiah a short time later when the people arrived in Jerusalem. To be counted among the men, one would have to be twenty years old. Is it so hard for you to accept that one of Adonikam's descendants had his 20th birthday during the trip?

Pastor Billy-Reuben

**AVoiceofTruth** · 05-19-2008, 03:13 AM

Re: Avoiding The Truth: My Rant

Ezra:

Ezr 2:1 Now these are the children of the province that went up out of the captivity, of those which had been carried away, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away unto Babylon, and came again unto Jerusalem and Judah, every one unto his city;

Nehemiah:

Neh 7:6 These are the children of the province, that went up out of the captivity, of those that had been carried away, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away, and came again to Jerusalem and to Judah, every one unto his city; ...

hmm....seems like they say the exact same thing. Do they? Or don't they?

except for the difference in number of people. One says 666, other says 667. They can NOT be both right.

Also, in Matthew, it says in the geneology part of it in the 1st chapter....

"Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat...etc, etc, etc...then we come to this one....>

...and Booz begat Obed of Ruth...

Ummm....I read the Book of Ruth...and IT claims that Naomi beget Obed.

Rth 4:17 And the women her neighbours gave it a name, saying, There is a son born to Naomi; and they called his name Obed: he is the father of Jesse, the father of David.

So which one is right? Can't have both. One is a lie. I'm not against the Bible. I'm against people saying it's without error. There are plenty of people claiming it's without error. Well, doesn't matter what they claim. The TRUTH of the matter is, it DOES contain errors...and who knows, maybe God wanted it that way.

But, never in my life will I claim that a lie is truth. NEVER.

You guys worship the Bible more than you do God. You love it more than God...that's how it comes across to people anyway.

You claim God wouldn't let his word get polluted. If that were the case, he never would have allowed other translations, right? The fact that there are so many different translations proves he lets us do "what seems right in our own eyes."

He doesn't stop it. Why? I don't know. And the Bible itself makes reference to the book of Jasher.

"Jos 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day."

"2Sa 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.) "

Well, the Bible mentions the book of Jasher, so why was it taken out? What God inspired man thought he was so annointed as to remove a book
the Bible itself makes reference to? That's not the only book.

Well, guess what? If the book of Jasher doesn't say it, guess what? That makes that statement a lie. Does the book of Jasher say it? Well, according to the KJV believers, only the 66 books of the Bible are inspired.
Not the other books the Bible itself mentions...oh no...those weren't inspired were they? Even though the Bible mentioned them.

Here's another question...How did Saul die?

"1Sa 31:4 Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it. "

"1Ch 10:4 Then said Saul to his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. So Saul took a sword, and fell upon it. "

(Ezra and Nehemiah flashback, huh? Same exact wording in 2 different books)

"2Sa 1:5 And David said unto the young man that told him, How knowest thou that Saul and Jonathan his son be dead?
2Sa 1:6 And the young man that told him said, As I happened by chance upon mount Gilboa, behold, Saul leaned upon his spear; and, lo, the chariots and horsemen followed hard after him.
2Sa 1:7 And when he looked behind him, he saw me, and called unto me. And I answered, Here am I.
2Sa 1:8 And he said unto me, Who art thou? And I answered him, I am an Amalekite.
2Sa 1:9 He said unto me again, Stand, I pray thee, upon me, and slay me: for anguish is come upon me, because my life is yet whole in me.
2Sa 1:10 So I stood upon him, and slew him, because I was sure that he could not live after that he was fallen: and I took the crown that was upon his head, and the bracelet that was on his arm, and have brought them hither unto my lord. "

Once again, 2 totally SEPERATE accounts. They both can't be right. Either he died because he fell on his own sword, or he died because he asked an Amalekite to slay him.

If I say to you, " I slept all day yesterday, and didn't leave my house."

And I say to another, "I left my house early yesterday morning and went fishing. Then when I returned to town, I went to the store, got some pop, went home and drank it."

Would you think I was a liar? I would personally ADMIT myself I'm a liar, because I lied.

The Bible says,

"Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? "

Men most CERTAINLY can and DO lie. Men wrote the scriptures. They may have been inspired by God to do so, but while doing so, unless you can find a way to resolve the contradictions, we must admit some of the men told lies while writing(knowingly, or unknowingly).

That is NOT my point.

My point is so simple a child can understand it. The Bible has errors. To say otherwise would make me a liar. I see them. I didn't put them there, I simply see them. I feel great relief in being able to point out an error or lie when I see it. I will NEVER feel ashamed for that.

God wrote the Bible, and the Bible has errors.... is saying God has errors.

As I said before, and will say again, the verse says,

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

"By inspiration of God."

and is PROFITABLE for doctrine, for reproof, for correcton, for instruction...

where do you see where it says it's without error or that it's all true?

I don't see that anywhere.

The Bible has errors. It made me mad when I found that out. I was raised thinking the Bible was without error, so I believed it. It took me a lot of years before I really started searching and studying. When I started studying, ON MY OWN, not from some website like you claim(there again, that is unrighteous judgment on YOUR part to assume I get my info from a website). I found these errors on my own, in my own REAL KJV Bible, NOT on my computer. I actually have a KJV Bible that I open with my own 2 hands believe it or not.

I will tell you, when I started at the beginning, I was shocked when I started seeing errors. I was mad. My whole faith was shattered. To find out everything I'd been taught(by man) to believe, was corrupt really hurt me. I felt evil for seeing them. I called my pastor and asked him about certain things I saw. His reply? Don't look for wrong, or you're going to find it. What lame response is that? I wasn't looking for wrong when I found the errors. I was simply studying like I'd never studied before. I did NOT want to find wrong, I wasn't looking for it....it was just there. It's as simple as that.

So, AFTER I found a few errors(that I was in NO way looking for), I did a search on "contradictions errors Bible" and realized I wasn't the only one who saw them...which made me feel a tiny bit better.

That's when I quoted from other websites, which, by the way...they're right. There are errors...but God is still truth...and the ONLY truth.

I will never worship a book. EVER...

And all these arguments...it really doesn't matter which translation you use.

I mean, how many times does a person have to be told "don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, don't be proud, don't boast, don't bear false witness" before they stop doing it?

People who still do it, simply are NOT at a place or time in their life where they love God.

Doesn't matter which version, "thou shalt not kill" means don't kill. Don't lie, means "don't lie". Don't commit adultery, means don't commit adultery...in every single translation it means the same thing.

If you don't believe Jesus died on the cross, you won't have eternal life means the same thing in every single translation.

I use the KJV. I also study the meaning of the Hebrew and Greek words behind it. But, if I'm "skimming" to find a theme to study, I'll do a search in an "easier to understand" translation, then when I find it, I get the overall meaning, then I go to the KJV to study it more indepth.

New Christians are supposed to receive the milk of the Word, NOT the meat.

So, an easy translation that says, "don't lie. Don't bear false witness against your neighbors, don't gossip, don't let the LOVE of money ruin your life" is just fine.

As they start to see that, they can begin to study the deeper things.

People GROW. They don't INSTANTLY change everything. Although, in a ton of cases, people overall hearts changed instantly...they no longer WANTED to do evil, but....they had to learn to RESIST everything over time as they struggled between flesh and spirit.

One is sinless. Jesus. The rest of us aren't.

To tell people if they commit one sin, they're evil, goes against everything God ever said, because He himself said "ALL have sinned" and "there is none righteous, NOT ONE". Not any of you, and definitely not me.

Wanting to sin and loving sin is wicked. I agree.

But, committing a sin is NOT wicked. It's who we are. And, immediately after we sin, if we don't feel bad for it, or get right with God, then we should begin to question where we're going to spend eternity.

I know you're mad(even though I also know this site seems to be a big joke....I could care less whether it is or not)...but the truth is, sadly, there are REAL people who will come here looking for truth, and those are the ones I hope understand what I'm saying.

We're to stick up for the truth and to hate lies...

Well, the Bible has errors. I didn't write it. But, I'll call a lie a lie, an error an error, a contradiction a contradiction. I will.

By the way, you never did respond to how God on one hand made man on the 6th day after everything else,

...then in the other account of creation Jehovah God made man 1st, and after that made the creatures and everything else.

Error? Absolutely! They both can't be right. One is truth, the other not..until proven otherwise.

To me...I believe God created everything. I don't even care how he did it. I believe if he wanted to created everything in an instant, he could have. If he wanted to take 6 days, or a million years that's fine by me too.

We humans are so pathetic...that much I believe.

We are all guilty of misinterpreting scriptures and taking them to mean what we believe.

You guys focus on the "judgmental" part of God, New Agers focus on the grace. Sad thing is, everyone's write when they quote scriptures that support their view.

Everything in moderation(not just some things)...that would include doctrines I guess. Don't take judgment to extremes, nor take grace to extremes...that would violate the "everything in moderation" command, wouldn't it?

I don't know...but it's something to pray and ask for wisdom about.

Did God create us father and son? Or male and female?

....in our image...in our likeness....male and female...

hmm...almost seems like there's a missing woman in the Bible, doesn't it? Wisdom? The woman in the wilderness that God sent to be taken care of?

I don't know....

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

So come on annointed ones...let us in on this secret. The book of Revelation itself says "Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. "

Well, apparently I'm not a believer and not going to heaven and neither is anyone else who can't explain this...cuz it says the sayings of this book are not sealed.

Also, you annointed ones, please tell us the meaning of Jesus' parables....the meanings of them were for those "of the kingdom" ...it is not for others to know. Again, I'm not meant for the kingdom...there, I just saved you from throwing out a bunch of insults at me...now you can simply make fun of me all you want...I really don't care.

Point of the matter is, I just challenged each and every one of you to explain Revelation and the meanings of Jesus' parables...

and if you can't do it in a clear way, then you're not chosen either...in which case...God's grace would HAVE to be sufficient for us...because we're not smart enough, we're not good enough to get there on our own.

EVERYBODY WATCH THE SILLY INTERPRETATIONS OF THE PARABLES AND THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS YOU'RE ABOUT TO SEE FROM THESE "CHOSEN ONES"....

and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free...from this place

Or, I'll get banned, cuz I'll be made to look like a rebel, or a false prophet...when all I asked these "annointed" ones to do, was share the truth of the parables, and of Revelations. If they can't...then....I guess they're not that chosen.

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

so...come on annointed...tell us the "Mystery of the kingdom of God".

Please tell us? We'd really like to know. If you can't, admit it. Nothing wrong with saying you don't know.

And, if you can explain this passage and tell me how it's NOT a translation error...I may start to find you credible:

Act 7:44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.
Act 7:45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;
Act 7:46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.

...umm, I think they should have put Joshua....Jesus wasn't alive in the flesh back then....

But, again my point is this.

Men make mistakes...we all do...even if we don't mean to.

Mistakes happen. They happened in the Bible because men wrote it. God inspired them to write it, but it was their hands that did it. I misspell things a lot(though I know how to spell)....sometimes it's because I'm in a rush, or my mind is preoccupied. It doesn't mean I did it on purpose.

But, if someone points out a mistake I made, and I deny it...I'm a liar. It's that simple.

God gave us the Bible to learn about him. BUT, it has errors I came to find out. If I say it doesn't...I lie.

And, as I mentioned...maybe God wanted it that way. He inspired men to write things down. They themselves wrote it.

WE SAY IT'S inerrent. The Bible never said it was inerrent.

So, study, find God, rightly divide, etc. etc. etc.

And quit defending errors. That's just wrong.

Again, if you're as annointed and smart as you claim, tell me...when did God create man?

After the animals? (Genesis 1 account?)

or before? (Genesis 2:4-2:25 account?)

If you can't explain it, then keep on lying and saying the Bible is error free.

But, personally, I would love to see it explained so the whole thing could be true.

This is my commandment that you love one another that your joy may be full.

Funny, how you guys are as guilty as everyone else...

Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Yet, you hate and condemn the fatherless and widows...a commandment that's repeated over and over(even in the Old Testament)...

Isa 10:1 Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed;
Isa 10:2 To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless!
Isa 10:3 And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory?

Job 24:1 Why, seeing times are not hidden from the Almighty, do they that know him not see his days?
Job 24:2 Some remove the landmarks; they violently take away flocks, and feed thereof.
Job 24:3 They drive away the ass of the fatherless, they take the widow's ox for a pledge.
Job 24:4 They turn the needy out of the way: the poor of the earth hide themselves together.
Job 24:5 Behold, as wild asses in the desert, go they forth to their work; rising betimes for a prey: the wilderness yieldeth food for them and for their children.
Job 24:6 They reap every one his corn in the field: and they gather the vintage of the wicked.
Job 24:7 They cause the naked to lodge without clothing, that they have no covering in the cold.
Job 24:8 They are wet with the showers of the mountains, and embrace the rock for want of a shelter.
Job 24:9 They pluck the fatherless from the breast, and take a pledge of the poor.
Job 24:10 They cause him to go naked without clothing, and they take away the sheaf from the hungry;

...yet you condemn others for not following the verses YOU CHOOSE to be more important.

We all better pray for one another huh? We're in a mess! lol

Personally, I'm not smart enough to figure out the whole Bible, nor will I ever be able to understand God's plan fully.

But, I am smart enough and I want truth enough to call an error an error, and a lie, a lie.

It really is that simple.

Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

That's it. God Bless, and have a good night everyone

**JennyD** · 05-19-2008, 05:46 AM

Re: Avoiding The Truth: My Rant

There'd be no point in banning you, friend. Nobody is going to bother to read your encyclopedia of God-hating drivel. I'll sum it up for you:

It seems you're obsessed with proving that the Bible is not God's pure and unadulterated Word.

Let's assume you're right for just a moment.

Let's say that men wrote the Bible without God, and it's full of errors.

Why, then, would you believe any part of it? How would you choose what's right and what's wrong?

If part of it is wrong, none of it is trustworthy. Therefore, you doubt God.

I see no point in saying you believe in God and Jesus when the only source from which we know Him, the Bible, is something you declare to be unreliable.

Since your declaration that God's Word is false makes you a hellbound blasphemer, why not consider spending your days as a secular humanist or buddhist or something? You may learn some meditation techniques to make your eternity in God's Hell more tolerable.

**AVoiceofTruth** · 05-19-2008, 07:40 AM

Re: Avoiding The Truth: My Rant

Well, you self-professed Christians are sure in touch with your anger and hate. I will give you that much.

Funny, how you all avoid my questions. Actually, it's not funny at all.

I'll make it simple for you, so even you can understand.

1 question. You answer it if you can.

Matthew says,

Matthew 1:5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;

Ruth says:

Ruth 4:17 And the women her neighbours gave it a name, saying, There is a son born to Naomi; and they called his name Obed: he is the father of Jesse, the father of David.

So who begat Obed? Naomi or Ruth?

It had to be one. The world may never know. That, my friends is an error. That's my point. If you guys say the Bible is without error, and God wrote it...then you make God a liar, because there's an error right there. If that's what you call truth, I want no part of it.

Don't be mad at me. Take your Satanic hate and focus it on the translators of the Bible. They're the one who said it, not me.

You should be thankful to me for preventing you from believing lies. The Bible does have errors, and God INSPIRED men to write it, He did NOT write it himself. One more proof that nobody's perfect...not even scribes, who Jesus always rebuked.

So, answer that question truthfully, with proof from scripture if you can.

If not, quit saying it's without error please. That's all I ask.

Funny how you guys avoid the scriptures on love too. (and NO, I'm not saying love tolerates sin...that's where judgment comes in...righteous judgment that is). If a person loves God, they will hate sin. But, doesn't change the fact if you have faith in Jesus, he COMMANDED LOVE AND FORGIVENESS even to enemies. Otherwise, you're right back to the law, and that's what he'll judge you by.

You don't deserve heaven, I don't deserve heaven...not a single person does...NOBODY. We don't get to heaven cuz we're good. We get to heaven cuz we believe God grace took care of it for us, and for that, we should be thankful and LOVE him. And that's really the only way to overcome sin...is to LOVE GOD, because of what he did for us. When we love someone, we don't want to offend them.

How do we love? Not in words, but in deeds and truth.

What deeds? Oh, that's repeated all through the Bible, both Old and New Testament. Love God, judge righteous judgment, show mercy, help the fatherless and widows.

You don't like helping the fatherless and widows in their afflictions?

Hmm...sounds like you're mad at God. He's the one who demands it, not I

So take that issue up with Him. Ask Him to change His mind if you want.

Ask Him to make an exception for you. That's your choice what you want to do...not mine.

And I won't say the Bible is without error and make a liar out of God.

So, are any of you smart or annointed enough to answer my question about who begat Obed? Ruth or Naomi? If you can't, I suggest you cease from saying the Bible's inerrant, but then again, that's your choice.

It's a simple question. If you can, please clear it up for me, I'm confused about it.

**Ezekiel Bathfire** · 05-19-2008, 09:52 AM

Re: Avoiding The Truth: My Rant

Originally posted by AVoiceofTruth View Post

Ezekiel Bathfire, you said:
God Bless You,

Eddy

Originally posted by AVoiceofTruth View Post

By the way, the reason I asked you to answer this:

How many Israelite men from the people in exile were of Adonikam?
An error is an error. To look at an error and to say it's not an error makes me a liar. And liars won't have any part in the kingdom, right?

Originally posted by AVoiceofTruth View Post

Ezra:
That's it. God Bless, and have a good night everyone

Originally posted by AVoiceofTruth View Post

Well, you self-professed Christians are sure in touch with your anger and hate. I will give you that much.
It's a simple question. If you can, please clear it up for me, I'm confused about it.

I am appreciative of the time and thought (abeit not too Christian) that you put into your above posts, I do believe that they are the longest that these forums have enjoyed.

I also thank you sincerely for answering in such detail, albeit, for the most part, with a lack of Faith.

I have mentioned earlier your error in relying on “translations” and “original meaning” of a certain word. I have indeed seen a paper that purports that the word for “virgin” in respect to Mary Mother of Jesus, is a mistranslation of the word for “maid”! All this line of argument shows is that the Devil is at work in the minds of the Unsaved.

You mention contradictions quite often. As far as I am aware, there is controversial work going on in this area but not at Landover! The question many ask is, “Do we explain them, which is adding to the Word of God yet risk being wrong and thus corrupting God’s message or do we simply accept that there are things we do not understand yet in which we have faith?” This point is answered below.

Your attempt to find error in KJV1611, and then use that to claim a knowledge of the Mind of God is futile.

I have posted parts of the following many times and you may see the whole by following the link. Forgive my use of emphasis (bold and/or red) I am sure that you will not need your attention drawn to the significance of those passages but others might.

A Sermon (No. 107) Delivered on Sabbath Morning, December 14, 1856, by the
REV. C. H. Spurgeon at the Music Hall, Royal Surrey Gardens.

Believe me, this is an age when the Bible is not so much thought of as it used to be. Some hundred years ago the world was covered with bigotry, cruelty, and superstition. We always run to extremes, and we have just gone to the other extreme now. It was then said, "One faith is right, down with all others by the rack and by the sword." now it is said, "However contradictory our creeds may be, they are all right." If we did but use our common sense we should know that it is not so. But some reply, "Such-and-such a doctrine need not be preached and need not be believed."' Then, sir, if it need not be preached, it need not be revealed. You impugn the wisdom of God, when you say a doctrine is unnecessary; for you do as much as say that God has revealed something which was not necessary, and he would be as unwise to do more than was necessary, as if he had done less than was necessary. We believe that every doctrine of God's Word ought to be studied by men, and that their faith should lay hold of the whole matter of the Sacred Scriptures, and more especially upon all that part of Scripture which concerns the person of our all-blessed Redeemer. There must be some degree of knowledge before there can be faith. "Search the Scriptures," then, "for in them ye think ye have eternal life, and they are they which testify of Christ;" and by searching and reading cometh knowledge, and by knowledge cometh faith, and through faith cometh salvation.[…]

You are not allowed to halve the Scriptures, and to believe what you please; you are not allowed to believe the Scripture with a half-heartedness, for if you do this wilfully, you have not the faith which looks alone to Christ. True faith gives its full assent to the Scriptures; it takes a page and says, "No matter what is in the page, I believe it;" it turns over the next chapter ands says, "Herein are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable do wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, to their destruction; but hard though it be, I believe it." It sees the Trinity; it cannot understand the Trinity in Unity, but it believes it. It sees an atoning sacrifice; there is something difficult in the thought, but it believes it; and whatever it be which it sees in revelation, it devoutly puts its lips to the book, and says, "I love it all; I give my full, free and hearty assent to every word of it, whether it be the threatening or the promise, the proverb, the precept, or the blessing. I believe that since it is all the Word of God it is all most assuredly true." Whosoever would be saved must know the Scriptures, and must give full assent unto them.

3. But a man may have all this, and yet not possess true faith; for the chief part of faith lies in the last head, namely, in an affiance to the truth; not the believing it merely, but the taking hold of it as being ours, and in the resting on it for salvation. Recumbency on the truth was the word which the old preachers used. You will understand that word. Leaning on it; saying, "This is truth, I trust my salvation on it." Now, true faith, in its very essence rests in this—a leaning upon Christ. It will not save me to know that Christ is a Saviour; but it will save me to trust him to be my Saviour.

Faith… the answer is Faith.

**Ezekiel Bathfire** · 05-19-2008, 10:37 AM

Re: Avoiding The Truth: My Rant

Originally posted by AVoiceofTruth View Post

Ezekiel Bathfire,
By the way, answer me this, I challenge you:

How many Israelite men from the people in exile were of Adonikam?

Search "Adonikam" and you'll get your answer.

God Bless You,

Eddy

Re: Adonikam

First let me say that you fall into the error caused by pride. Whereas you would not expect to understand quantum physics merely by taking a few extracts of various sources, so, you cannot expect to understand God’s message by a similar manner; deep study is required.

Now, as I wrote above, I am not comfortable with dissecting The Word of God, when it is there for all to see and requires no further elucidation. Yet, for your sake, I offer a humble and probably incomplete suggestion, which is no more than that. Naturally, I cannot say that I have not fallen into error and all may be wrong.

A. Ezr:2:1: Now these are the children of the province that went up out of the captivity, of those which had been carried away, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away unto Babylon, and came again unto Jerusalem and Judah, every one unto his city;
Ezr:2:13: The children of Adonikam, six hundred sixty and six.

B. Ezr:8:1: These are now the chief of their fathers, and this is the genealogy of them that went up with me from Babylon, in the reign of Artaxerxes the king.
Ezr:8:13: And of the last sons of Adonikam, whose names are these, Eliphelet, Jeiel, and Shemaiah, and with them threescore males.

C. Ne:7:6: These are the children of the province, that went up out of the captivity, of those that had been carried away, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away, and came again to Jerusalem and to Judah, every one unto his city;
Ne:7:18: The children of Adonikam, six hundred threescore and seven.

A. says that there were 666 who were children
B. says there were 60 or 63 who were sons and/or males
C. says there were 667 who were children

The first point is to ask, “What does “children” mean? Does it mean, “children of the tribe”? or “actual offspring of one man”?

Now A and C are close and written by different people at different times, amongst so many there has clearly been births and deaths – this will account for the difference of one. So let us set this aside.

That being settled, we look at Ezr:8:13: whereas the other two are counts, this is a genealogy. It says so.

From this we know that Adikonam had at least 3 sons, for the sons are described as “the last sons” – there may be others alive or dead.

What we cannot say is whether there were 60 or 63 people in all. Does the passage indicate that there were 3 sons and 60 males or does it say that there were, including the last sons, 60 males?

The next part describes 60 males who happened to be with them at the time – we know nothing else about these males; they could be anyone, they could have just been hanging around.

So here we see that there is no contradiction, merely a statement that Adikonam had at least 3 sons.

Case closed!

I implore you to have Faith, for all will be revealed in God’s own time.

**Pastor Billy-Reuben** · 05-19-2008, 12:34 PM

Re: Avoiding The Truth: My Rant

Originally posted by AVoiceofTruth View Post

hmm....seems like they [Ezra and Nehemiah] say the exact same thing. Do they? Or don't they?

They are talking about the same group of people, but they were two different censuses taken by two different people at two different times. I already explained that to you. It seems like you'd rather believe the Devil than trust the Lord.

Your ability to copy and paste juxtaposed out of context verses from atheist hate sites and claim they are contradictions is not an argument. If you spent half as much time on the internet looking for answers as you did looking for problems, you would have noticed that these are all resolved already. You are just wasting our time by asking us to deal with them again.

Originally posted by AVoiceofTruth View Post

1 question. You answer it if you can.
Matthew says,

Matthew 1:5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;

Ruth says:

Ruth 4:17 And the women her neighbours gave it a name, saying, There is a son born to Naomi; and they called his name Obed: he is the father of Jesse, the father of David.

So who begat Obed? Naomi or Ruth?

It had to be one. The world may never know. That, my friends is an error.

You're not even trying, atheist. The Bible doesn't say that Naomi begat Obed.

Son, n.

1. A male child; the male issue, or offspring, of a parent, father or mother.

Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son. Gen. xxi. 2.

2. A male descendant, however distant; hence, in the plural, descendants in general.

I am the son of the wise, the son of ancient kings. Isa. xix. 11.
I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Mal. iii. 6.

The verse in Matthew uses the first sense of the word "son", and the verse in Ruth uses the second sense of the word "son".

Try this verse on for size:
Matt 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Are you now going to try to claim that Matthew believed Abraham was Jesus' grandfather?

There are no errors or contradictions in the Bible. There is a reasonable explanation for every supposed error or contradiction the Devil can find.

Jenny had a point which you rudely ignored. If we can't trust the Bible to get little things right, how can we trust it on anything? How would we know if the plan of salvation as presented in the Bible is accurate? How would we know if Jesus really rose from the dead? How would we know whether Jesus actually said any of the things he is reported to have said?

Pastor Billy-Reuben

Avoiding The Truth: My Rant

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