[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: I hate introductions.

I just want everyone to be decent human beings. If that's cruel to you, I'd hate to see what you'd consider nice.

Do you have some liberal illusion that God rewards us with eternal life in Heaven(c) if we are nice enough people? Seriously?

You really need some Bible studying, boy. I urge you to cease your compulsive masturbation and taking the marijuana and spend some time on your knees before Jesus, begging Him to shove some Holy Spirit up your backside.

Read my Sermon HERE.

And give us your proper Christian name. Nobody is named after a fish.

[Toot11]

Re: I hate introductions.

Do you have some liberal illusion that God rewards us with eternal life in Heaven© if we are nice enough people? Seriously?

I don't think there's a heaven at all, though, if there is, I imagine it's not quite like the pearly gates most people think of when they hear the word.

And give us your proper Christian name. Nobody is named after a fish.

The name is a reference to Trout Mask Replica (Beefheart). Brilliant blues rock record.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: I hate introductions.

Witness testimony is one of the lowest forms of evidence a person can present. There's a reason it's not given very much weight in courts. As for the archaeology bit, I'd be surprised if we didn't discover architecture built during that period, but that doesn't mean all the fantastical elements (the great flood and Noah's ark, Jesus dying and returning to life days after) are true

Testimony might actually be a step lower than eyewitnesses.

Coincidence. All prophecies are just predictions that are for some reason given more weight. If the Bible made a thousand predictions, and one or two come true, it's not an example of divinity.

Science has the process of repeated experiments and cross examination. There's a reason decade after decade, we're coming to know more and more, and working on the questions that are specially prevalent (what is dark matter?). This might not be a proper answer to that statement. If it's not, mind elaborating on this point, as well?

Dear friend,

I do appreciate your good manners while I am very concerned about the state of your soul.

That said, I'll be happy to elaborate.

You are confusing the methods and nature of evidence in science with the nature of evidence when it comes to God and Jesus. Science is a method, a process to obtain knowledge. I'll get back to that in a minute. Creation science is a method to praise what we already know: God Created the World and us; we failed His expectations and caused the Fall (Genesis 3:6); God in His mercy (Jonah 4:2) sacrificed Himself as Jesus to give us a chance (John 3:16-18) of uniting once more with Him in Heaven (Matthew 5:12).

Now we come to your post (I've underlined some relevant parts). I agree. Science is about observation and experimentation. However, both Science and Christianity agree that observations are notoriously unreliable, experiments yield mostly negative results which are ignored or dismissed (take, e.g., the discussion about anti-depressants - mostly the studies with significant results get published while the ones that show no effect are buried in silence). Our memory is unreliable. Yes, also eyewitness testimony.

In the neurosciences and psychology this is explained based on evolutionary sciences (among others): we would not need total reliability, we need just enough to get by. This is a very bad explanation and the atheist scholars know this. If there had been any increase in fitness based on more reliable sensory observations and memory, it would have been selected for and the allele frequencies of these characters would have increased until memory would indeed have become reliable. It is not. Something is missing.

Jesus is missing.

Creation Science has the answer to the unreliability of our memory. The Bible tells us that God tests us all the time. One of these tests is to send us false input, false data, false information.

Jeremiah 4:10
Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.

Jeremiah 20:7
O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me.

Ezekiel 14:9
And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Isaiah 66:4
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Why should this be only the case of organic synapses and neurotransmitters? Of course it is not confined to that, to living creatures. Also the inorganics, the silicon-based gatherers of data can be deceived. God is omnipotent. He can send false data also to computers showing us many wonders, such as "dark matter" (or the fingerprints of it in the mass distribution of "galaxies") and our mind loses it focus.

Jesus. He should be the Focus.

That is why we can only trust the Bible. That is the ultimate guide. True Research™ is based on knowing that the Bible is correct. Observations that can be harmonized to Biblical content can therefore be accepted.

Your scoring of the reliability of evidence is thus skewed. The correct order is:

1. Testimonials based on the Bible.
2. testimonials in agreement with the Bible.
3. Eyewitness testimony in harmony with the Bible.
4. Other testimonials and eyewitness reports.
5. Observations from natural sciences in concert with the Bible.
6. Everything else.

In this world in uncertainty we can trust only Jesus and His Will is expressed clearly in the Bible. We don't have to like what He says. That is irrelevant. We are not supposed to have opinions: He has an adequate number of them. We are here to obey.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: I hate introductions.

I don't think there's a heaven at all, though, if there is, I imagine it's not quite like the pearly gates most people think of when they hear the word.


The name is a reference to Trout Mask Replica (Beefheart). Brilliant blues rock record.

You did not answer my question, nor did you do as you were directed.

Your posting privileges are quickly diminishing quickly. Get God or get gone, demon.

[Toot11]

Re: I hate introductions.

You are confusing the methods and nature of evidence in science with the nature of evidence when it comes to God and Jesus. Science is a method, a process to obtain knowledge. I'll get back to that in a minute. Creation science is a method to praise what we already know: God Created the World and us; we failed His expectations and caused the Fall (Genesis 3:6); God in His mercy (Jonah 4:2) sacrificed Himself as Jesus to give us a chance (John 3:16-18) of uniting once more with Him in Heaven (Matthew 5:12).

Right, but what makes you know that God exists, besides Biblical text which is self-affirming.

Now we come to your post (I've underlined some relevant parts). I agree. Science is about observation and experimentation. However, both Science and Christianity agree that observations are notoriously unreliable, experiments yield mostly negative results which are ignored or dismissed (take, e.g., the discussion about anti-depressants - mostly the studies with significant results get published while the ones that show no effect are buried in silence). Our memory is unreliable. Yes, also eyewitness testimony.

This is what makes science so amazing. All of the well tested hypotheses rise to the top and one's that don't fall. There's no need to force ideas to fit a narrative, and would actually be pretty difficult what with peer review. Alder's razor: if it can't be settled by experiment or observation, it's not worth debate.

In the neurosciences and psychology this is explained based on evolutionary sciences (among others): we would not need total reliability, we need just enough to get by. This is a very bad explanation and the atheist scholars know this.

It's hard for us to get a complete picture, because of how limited we are, but every day, it gets less and less foggy, steadily, but it's happening. And in spite of that, the default position shouldn't necessarily go back to any one religion.

Why should this be only the case of organic synapses and neurotransmitters? Of course it is not confined to that, to living creatures. Also the inorganics, the silicon-based gatherers of data can be deceived. God is omnipotent. He can send false data also to computers showing us many wonders, such as "dark matter" (or the fingerprints of it in the mass distribution of "galaxies") and our mind loses it focus.

I don't think that's how computers work. Besides, if God is omnipotent, as you say, why wouldn't he send out some sign that he actually exists, one that's enough to convince everyone?

In this world in uncertainty we can trust only Jesus and His Will is expressed clearly in the Bible. We don't have to like what He says. That is irrelevant. We are not supposed to have opinions: He has an adequate number of them. We are here to obey.

Not supposed to? Opinions are the reason we have so much progress in this world. Granted, they may be vile at times, but individualism is something that desperately needs to be preserved.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: I hate introductions.

I don't think that's how computers work. Besides, if God is omnipotent, as you say, why wouldn't he send out some sign that he actually exists, one that's enough to convince everyone?

I find it hard to accept that you are unaware of the sign God Himself Created for everyone to see!

Genesis 9:12-14
And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:



You do understand that this was written down centuries before anyone understood anything about prisms and light reflection. Still the people were able to conceive this Miracle. It only needed Godly creation before the era of wave physics. You must have seen it many times during your lifetime. There are other miracles as well, we've reported quite a few of them. If you open your heart, you'll understand this, as well!

Luke 8:10
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: I hate introductions.

Right, but what makes you know that God exists blah blah blah

Get off your PS2 and take a walk outside. Kick off your Birkenstocks, let the grass tickle your toes. Look around, see the birds, hear them sing. Feel the soft breeze, smell the jasmine or azaleas or honeysuckle or whatever you have in the spiritual wasteland you call home.






Still with me?





That's Genesis, IN YOUR FACE. Everything you've ever seen, heard, smelled, touched or tasted was foretold in the very first Book of the Bible, and that's a FACT.

That's how I know God exists: HE TOLD ME.



Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

[Toot11]

Re: I hate introductions.

You do understand that this was written down centuries before anyone understood anything about prisms and light reflection. Still the people were able to conceive this Miracle. It only needed Godly creation before the era of wave physics. You must have seen it many times during your lifetime. There are other miracles as well, we've reported quite a few of them. If you open your heart, you'll understand this, as well!

So because this happened in a time before we understood what causes rainbows, it's a miracle? They may have believed that, but that doesn't make it a sign from God.

Get off your PS2 and take a walk outside. Kick off your Birkenstocks, let the grass tickle your toes. Look around, see the birds, hear them sing. Feel the soft breeze, smell the jasmine or azaleas or honeysuckle or whatever you have in the spiritual wasteland you call home.

I do this every time I go out, especially bike riding. It's the beauty of nature.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: I hate introductions.

So because this happened in a time before we understood what causes rainbows, it's a miracle? They may have believed that, but that doesn't make it a sign from God.


I do this every time I go out, especially bike riding. It's the beauty of nature.

Before that time the laws of physics where different the rainbow did not form (how could it before Jesus invented it).

I imagine it was a solid brown colour but as none of us where there we can only speculate what brown light might look like.

Possibly something like this.

[Toot11]

Re: I hate introductions.

Before that time the laws of physics where different the rainbow did not form (how could it before Jesus invented it).

I imagine it was a solid brown colour but as none of us where there we can only speculate what brown light might look like.

Technically, rainbows have never existed. They're not a physical, tangible object. They're optical illusions caused by light reflection.

My main problem with this line of reasoning is that I asked for some sign that God exists (and rainbows hasn't exactly convinced everyone, has it?), and you point to a Bible verse, and one in which is self-affirming. But if a piece of literature (or even any piece of media) can point to itself and proclaim itself to be absolutely true, and the followers of that piece of literature rise up and are convinced it is, does it make it so?

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: I hate introductions.

But if a piece of literature (or even any piece of media) can point to itself and proclaim itself to be absolutely true, and the followers of that piece of literature rise up and are convinced it is, does it make it so?

If it is the Bible, yes.

2nd Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
Deuteronomy 4:2 "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."
Revelation 22:18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
Psalm 12:6-7 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

But be sure to make sure it is the KJV1611: the rest are all wrong.

YIC

[Toot11]

Re: I hate introductions.

If it is the Bible, yes.

What makes the Bible special?

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: I hate introductions.

What makes the Bible special?

It is the only book on the planet inspired by Jesus. Word is special because Jesus put it there Himself.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Not believing that for a True Christian™ is like a homersexualistical not believing in 'On the Origin of Species' (the so called Bible of the atheistical/Satanisticals).

YIC

[Toot11]

Re: I hate introductions.

It is the only book on the planet inspired by Jesus. Word is special because Jesus put it there Himself.

Right, but how do you know? A book can't reaffirm the religion it's based on. That just doesn't make sense. You need some external proof.

Not believing that for a True Christian™ is like a homersexualistical not believing in 'On the Origin of Species' (the so called Bible of the atheistical/Satanisticals).[/QUOTE]
It's literally impossible to group atheists, because the only unifying belief any of them HAVE to share is disbelief in god. You've got conservative atheists, liberal atheists, cynical ones and optimistic ones, fascist and authoritarian atheists. Any group you can think of that's not religious has some amount of atheists in it, I guarantee you. As for the Origin of Species, it's an important piece of science, but I can offer another guarantee: You will never find an atheist that holds the Origin of Species in the same light a Christian holds the Bible.

While similar, Satanism is a whole different ball game. Are you talking about atheistic Satanism or theistic? For the former, the Satanic Bible is their Bible. For the theistic variety, I'm not quite sure, but I doubt they consider it their Bible, since the Bible is their Bible. They're just on a different side.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: I hate introductions.

Right, but how do you know? A book can't reaffirm the religion it's based on. That just doesn't make sense. You need some external proof.

That is the beauty of Christianity: it is ENTIRELY self affirming. It needs no outside source of authenticity.

Think about that for a minute. The beliefs that Christians have actually break any normal form of logic!

Jesus can make people believe in something that there is simply no evidence for: that is the very essence of faith and the solid ephemeral spirituality of firm devotion to Christ.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law

Don't you see?

Evidence would remove the need for faith.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

All the evidence you require simply does not exist! And it can all be found in the very Word of Jesus as described in His manual for living: the Bible(KJV1611).

Jesus wins, again.

YIC