Did Jesus really suffer?

[Evil Lucien]

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

As God and Jesus are the same being, how is it that we can say that Jesus suffered for our sins?

Obviously God lies outside of our physical world, and the concept, let alone the reality of physical pain would be unknown to him. Therefore Jesus would have felt no pain, and known no pain, so how could he suffer?

In fact we know that he did not suffer, as he told us he didn’t.

Thoughts please.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Did Jesus really suffer?

You must be the most ungrateful person on the planet.

Matthew 27:46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Romans 5:8 "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Isaiah 53:5 "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."

Psalm 22:16 "For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet."

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Did Jesus really suffer?

Isaiah 53:3: He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

But then why do I bother? Obviously, you know better than God does what it's like to be God. Therefore, instead of reading the Bible, we should just ask you.

[Evil Lucien]

Re: Did Jesus really suffer?

Answer the question, how can God feel pain? If he cannot how can he suffer for us?

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Did Jesus really suffer?

Answer the question

We did answer your "Did Jesus really suffer?" question. Perhaps you should bother to read the subject of the thread you yourself created. You asked if he suffered and we answered that question.

how can God feel pain?

This is a different question.

As to the answer to that question, I have no idea. If the Bible says He suffered, then He suffered. I will make sure to ask Him when I meet Him in Heaven. I will then tell it to you once you arrive in hell, although you probably will not hear me with all the screaming you will be doing.

[Evil Lucien]

Re: Did Jesus really suffer?

We did answer your "Did Jesus really suffer?" question. Perhaps you should bother to read the subject of the thread you yourself created. You asked if he suffered and we answered that question.

This is a different question.

As to the answer to that question, I have no idea. If the Bible says He suffered, then He suffered. I will make sure to ask Him when I meet Him in Heaven. I will then tell it to you once you arrive in hell, although you probably will not hear me with all the screaming you will be doing.

Well we do know the answer.

Jesus said, “ I have suffered none of the things they will say of me…You hear that I suffered, yet I suffered not… that blood flowed from me, yet it did not flow.

According to the old texts only a very select few will see heaven. I believe the number was 144000. So my friend, I think… you will roast with me.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Did Jesus really suffer?

Jesus said, “ I have suffered none of the things they will say of me…You hear that I suffered, yet I suffered not… that blood flowed from me, yet it did not flow.

As soon as Jesus tells me how he experiences things I just believe Him. I do not try to translate it into something I could experience as I am just a mere mortal. We are not supposed to understand everything. We are just supposed to obey God's every command to gain access to Heaven.

According to the old texts only a very select few will see heaven. I believe the number was 144000. So my friend, I think… you will roast with me.

Where in the Bible does it say that?

[Evil Lucien]

Re: Did Jesus really suffer?

As soon as Jesus tells me how he experiences things I just believe Him. I do not try to translate it into something I could experience as I am just a mere mortal. We are not supposed to understand everything. We are just supposed to obey God's every command to gain access to Heaven.

Where in the Bible does it say that?

You really are stupid.
It’s not in the modern bible. Most of the writings in the time of Jesus, were yet to be formed into the Bible as we know it today. The Bible as it is today is an incomplete record, for example it does not mention the childhood of Jesus, though there are texts that document his childhood… Not very flattering texts, as they portray him as a petulant murdering psychopath… like his Dad.

I should have thought any theological scholar would be familiar with the texts of Thomas, Josephus, Judas, etc… Apparently not.

[Mrs. Rogers]

Re: Did Jesus really suffer?

You really are stupid.
It’s not in the modern bible. Most of the writings in the time of Jesus, were yet to be formed into the Bible as we know it today. The Bible as it is today is an incomplete record, for example it does not mention the childhood of Jesus, though there are texts that document his childhood… Not very flattering texts, as they portray him as a petulant murdering psychopath… like his Dad.

I should have thought any theological scholar would be familiar with the texts of Thomas, Josephus, Judas, etc… Apparently not.

What a load of pompous tosh! The Bible is a complete record, as everything GOD does -- or in this case, writes via human secretary -- is complete, is perfect.

And for your information, a few days ago I had a daydream -- which segued into a vision, as my daydreams often do -- whereby I asked Jesus if He had anything He'd like to add to the Good Book, and He replied "it is finished." If it's good enough for JESUS, then it ought to be good enough for you too!

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Did Jesus really suffer?

You really are stupid.
It’s not in the modern bible. Most of the writings in the time of Jesus, were yet to be formed into the Bible as we know it today. The Bible as it is today is an incomplete record, for example it does not mention the childhood of Jesus, though there are texts that document his childhood… Not very flattering texts, as they portray him as a petulant murdering psychopath… like his Dad.

I should have thought any theological scholar would be familiar with the texts of Thomas, Josephus, Judas, etc… Apparently not.

There's a reason why those books didn't make it into the Bible. Not every scribbling that mentions Jesus is God's Word; for example, the Qur'an and the Book of Mormon both mention Jesus. If you don't think that the Bible is exactly what God intended it to be, then you are calling Him a liar:

Psalm 12:6-7: The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Did Jesus really suffer?

You really are stupid.
It’s not in the modern bible. Most of the writings in the time of Jesus, were yet to be formed into the Bible as we know it today. The Bible as it is today is an incomplete record, for example it does not mention the childhood of Jesus, though there are texts that document his childhood… Not very flattering texts, as they portray him as a petulant murdering psychopath… like his Dad. I should have thought any theological scholar would be familiar with the texts of Thomas, Josephus, Judas, etc… Apparently not.

There is only one Holy Bible, the KJV1611 Holy Bible. Everything else is toilet paper at best. Just read this to understand: seven easy ways to tell the True Bible from the false ones.

[Evil Lucien]

Re: Did Jesus really suffer?

There's a reason why those books didn't make it into the Bible. Not every scribbling that mentions Jesus is God's Word; for example, the Qur'an and the Book of Mormon both mention Jesus. If you don't think that the Bible is exactly what God intended it to be, then you are calling Him a liar:

Psalm 12:6-7: The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

No, I’m calling those who formulated the modern Bible more interested in protecting the authority of the church, than the word of God.
The Bible existed in different forms throughout the evolution of the Christian zeitgeist.

The fact that you hold to the “King James Bible”, above all others gives testament to my assertion.

The Bible was writ by man, it did not appear from the ether, as the gold gilt word of God. Also it underwent quite a few translations, which given the literacy of the earlier transcribers, leaves the Bible as we know it today, highly suspect.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Did Jesus really suffer?

The Bible was writ by man

Did you write your posting or did your keyboard? The Bible is inspired by God Himself: 2nd Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

[Lisa H]

Re: Did Jesus really suffer?

No, I’m calling those who formulated the modern Bible more interested in protecting the authority of the church, than the word of God.
The Bible existed in different forms throughout the evolution of the Christian zeitgeist.

The fact that you hold to the “King James Bible”, above all others gives testament to my assertion.

The Bible was writ by man, it did not appear from the ether, as the gold gilt word of God. Also it underwent quite a few translations, which given the literacy of the earlier transcribers, leaves the Bible as we know it today, highly suspect.

You are really getting very boring. If you have nothing better to with your time, sit down and start reading the King James Bible. Then start believing in the Lord.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Did Jesus really suffer?

No, I’m calling those who formulated the modern Bible more interested in protecting the authority of the church, than the word of God.
The Bible existed in different forms throughout the evolution of the Christian zeitgeist.

The fact that you hold to the “King James Bible”, above all others gives testament to my assertion.

The Bible was writ by man, it did not appear from the ether, as the gold gilt word of God. Also it underwent quite a few translations, which given the literacy of the earlier transcribers, leaves the Bible as we know it today, highly suspect.

Oh, okay. You don't believe that God failed to preserve His Word; you just believe that God failed to preserve His Word. Thanks for clearing that one up for us.

If the Bible as we know it today is highly suspect, then how do we know what God's Word actually is? What sort of loving God would make people speculate about His will or even about teachings entirely necessary for salvation, especially when omnipotence plainly includes the ability to preserve the true Bible?