[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

[QUOTE=Rev. Edward Clement;893949]Still having trouble comprehending anything: lawful execution, war, defense against demonic manifestation, putting to death those whom the LORD deems is to be killed. [quote]

I didn't know this before Reverend Rodimer clarified it for me. Before you.

Exodus 20:13 says not to kill, or murder; that has nothing to do with lawful execution as directed by the LORD in His Word®.

Please learn the meaning of the word kill. The definition is to cause death, regardless of reason, purpose or who ordered it. Don't include it in this sentence if ever you are to repeat it to someone else. However, murder does mean premeditated and/or unlawful killing so you are correct there.

You have got to be one of the dumbest heretics I have met. How does it feel to be a failure at life, and eternity?

It feels pretty good to be honest, better than I assume you think. You know what they say, ignorance is bliss.

Exodus
22:20[/COLOR] He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

I don't quite get the relevance. I know I don't sacrifice anything unto any god, at least not that I know of. Are you saying I should be offered as a sacrifice?

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

I'm not surprised, you are retarded and apparently have a speech impediment.

Fixed for grammatical accuracy. I don't mind people insulting me. I mind people insulting me badly.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Wrong. You would no longer have faith, you would have knowledge.

They are mutually exclusive.

It's not that I can't see the difference, I just can't see why they are mutually exclusive. If I had Faith in his existence that would imply I didn't have knowledge of his existence, which makes your statement correct. But if I knew of his existence I could have Faith in God. I think maybe I'm taking the definition of faith as in having complete and utter trust in someone. In which case I concede the point to you. It doesn't mean that if I knew God definitely existed I wouldn't worship him. I think if everyone definitively with ultimate proof knew he existed it'd be impossible not to worship him.


Thank you for quoting what I said earlier. I did not realise that the torah was part of the KJV, simply because of the different names. This is likely why I see similarities in the Jewish bible and Christian bible, as the Torah is part of the Hebrew bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah

Yes.

The Hebrew word "rasatch" means "murder, kill".

In other words, it is "kill" with a particular meaning: "Murder".

Executing or engaging in warfare is not murder.

Here's a reference for you: http://www.truthortradition.com/modu...e=News&sid=225

Also: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=H7523&t=KJV

Ahhhh, that is rather enlightening. Thank you for the references to back it up.

You're the one suggesting Snuffleupagus tortures children to death to teach their parents about sanitation, or something like that.

Hah, that's not entirely what I meant. Dysentery is only really found in extremely bad sanitation environs. And I mean seriously bad. If Snuffleupagus did inflict it on the child then it *could* have been out of sheer whimsy, or it might have had purpose. I don't know. But you can't really admonish my god for it, yours does it deliberately too. The whole thing is part of God's plan as far as you're concerned, right? Maybe they have more in common than I thought, aside from the imaginary/real thing.

[Rev. Edward Clement]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

So from this.....If you don't kill a homosexual, you've violated a command from God. If you do kill a homosexual, you've also violated a command from God.

Still having trouble comprehending anything: lawful execution, war, defense against demonic manifestation, putting to death those whom the LORD deems is to be killed.

Not surprised, you are ratarded and apparently have a speach intediment.

Leviticus
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Exodus 20:13 says not to kill, or murder; that has nothing to do with lawful execution as directed by the LORD in His Word(r).

You have got to be one of the dumbest heretics I have met. How does it feel to be a failure at life, and eternity?

Exodus
22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

That is ultimately a VERY good point, but knowledge can lead to Faith too. If I knew that your God exists for certain 100% without any shadow of a doubt, then I'd know that instead of being Snuffleupagus it'd be God. Do you get my meaning? Everything Snuffleupagus means to me now, how ingrained he is, would be transferred to God, Snuffleupagus now has a real name (As Snuffleupagus is just a placeholder to avoid confusion) and a confirmed existence for me. Thus the Bible is completely and irrefutably proven to me to be true. Thus, I have Faith. Faith isn't something you can only have without knowledge, you can have faith in someone to perform a task while knowing they're perfectly capable of performing it in the first place. Having knowledge and Faith is entirely possible.

Wrong. You would no longer have faith, you would have knowledge.

They are mutually exclusive.

No it's not what I said at all, at least not to my recollection. Could you quote and repost me on this?

That was in response to Ezekiel Bathfire, who I think proposed the question as if I were Jewish, as he said 613 commandments, which appears in the Torah, not the Bible. What I said was not in reference to the Bible, but he Torah instead.

Earlier you rebuked me for not taking the literal meaning of a passage, in a warning not to be hypocritical. Now you are asking me not take a commandment literally.

Do you deny that Thou shallt not kill is not a sweeping statement across all killing?

Yes.

The Hebrew word "rasatch" means "murder, kill".

In other words, it is "kill" with a particular meaning: "Murder".

Executing or engaging in warfare is not murder.

Here's a reference for you: http://www.truthortradition.com/modu...e=News&sid=225

Also: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=H7523&t=KJV

Hey don't let my imaginary god take the entire blame, it could just as equally be your God having another bet going with Satan like you suggested, or maybe did it to make other people more aware. We've established that your God isn't wholly good, so it's just as likely that your god is as capable of being as cruel and horrible as you imply mine is.

You're the one suggesting Snuffleupagus tortures children to death to teach their parents about sanitation, or something like that.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

It wasn't God's choice to stone that man, it was the people's. He may have issued his command there but it was their choice. And they are all likely burning in Hell for it, for violating one of the ten commandments, regardless of who ordered it.

So from this.....If you don't kill a homosexual, you've violated a command from God. If you do kill a homosexual, you've also violated a command from God. Either way, you're going to Hell. So maybe it's best to never meet a Homosexual for you.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

If God appeared and told you something Himself, you would not have faith in Him. You would have knowledge. Faith is required only when you do not have knowledge.

That is ultimately a VERY good point, but knowledge can lead to Faith too. If I knew that your God exists for certain 100% without any shadow of a doubt, then I'd know that instead of being Snuffleupagus it'd be God. Do you get my meaning? Everything Snuffleupagus means to me now, how ingrained he is, would be transferred to God, Snuffleupagus now has a real name (As Snuffleupagus is just a placeholder to avoid confusion) and a confirmed existence for me. Thus the Bible is completely and irrefutably proven to me to be true. Thus, I have Faith. Faith isn't something you can only have without knowledge, you can have faith in someone to perform a task while knowing they're perfectly capable of performing it in the first place. Having knowledge and Faith is entirely possible.

You said you followed the Torah, not the Bible. The Torah is a subset of the Bible. You have no clue whatsoever what you are talking about.

No it's not what I said at all, at least not to my recollection. Could you quote and repost me on this?

No, it is not. God does not contradict Himself.

There is a difference between killing someone in a criminal sense, and executing someone as directed by God. I'm sorry you are unable to comprehend the difference.

Earlier you rebuked me for not taking the literal meaning of a passage, in a warning not to be hypocritical. Now you are asking me not take a commandment literally.

Do you deny that Thou shallt not kill is not a sweeping statement across all killing? I'm a military man, whether being ordered to kill someone or not does not come into it. At the end of the day I have killed, I chose to kill. It wasn't God's choice to stone that man, it was the people's. He may have issued his command there but it was their choice. And they are all likely burning in Hell for it, for violating one of the ten commandments, regardless of who ordered it.

What kind of a sick monster is this Snuffleupagus of yours, that he'd do such a disgusting thing to a baby? That's cruel and horrible.

Hey don't let my imaginary god take the entire blame, it could just as equally be your God having another bet going with Satan like you suggested, or maybe did it to make other people more aware. We've established that your God isn't wholly good, so it's just as likely that your god is as capable of being as cruel and horrible as you imply mine is.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Now it all makes sense! You worship "the god of the gaps".

Whatever you do not understand is Snuffleupagus.

You don't understand how humans, who according to atheists "evolved" to be hard-wired to cooperate, have a conscience. Therefore, Snuffleupagus.

You don't understand how God created the universe in 6 days. Therefore, Snuffleupagus.

You don't understand laws of probability when you narrowly avoid an accident. Therefore, Snuffleupagus.

The Snuffleupagus of the gaps is just your way of avoiding having to acknowledge your own ignorance, and deal with the uncertainty left when you remove Snuffleupagus.

Just switch out "Aliens" for "Snuffleupagus", and you're just like this loser:



Wouldn't it make much more sense to follow God, who is always there, no matter what we do or do not understand, than to "follow" your ever-shrinking Snuffleupagus, who wastes away becoming more withered and pathetic as you learn more and more about the universe and humanity?

I don't think Snuffleupagus could ever wither away like you've said. There is always going to be a "Why?". Some things we can't answer will have a "Why?" even things we can, have and will answer will break way to more "Why?". My Snuffleupagus isn't a construct to explain anything, in reality he is a construct to explain that he was or is still here.

I am very familiar with the rule of probabilities, it's part of my work. Although I get the gist of it, that if there is something I can't explain then Snuffleupagus is responsible or the cause of it. That's not really the case. Like if a RPG explodes in the air before it's even near me, I don't think "Snuffleupagus launched that RPG" or "Snuffleupagus made that RPG miss me." I acknowledge that there is a chance of those things happening. But then again it's not impossible that Snuffleupagus had a hand in it. But hang on just one minute, You believe God has a plan for everyone, one that can't be changed - therefore to you there is no probability in life, everything is fixed. Everything will happen, and has technically already happened because of it's fixed state. Therefore you shouldn't believe in probability either


Well, why do you think human's have a conscience? Please elaborate on that section, I can't understand it's purpose to be honest. If your conscience is there to direct you in the right direction or steer you from bad, why doesn't the conscience just have control of you? What's the point in having an inner monologue that weighs options on moral grounds when it could just make the choice for you? Why is it not a completely integrated part of you that literally directs you? That doesn't just *think* about things for you?


Ultimately how can you understand why God created the universe in 6 days. Ask yourself the question why. Then once you have that answer, ask yourself why again. For each answer you come up with there will always be another why waiting, not just because this is a facetious exercise, but because there is always a why. Eventually you'll come upon a why that you can't possibly answer.

And then your answer may just be "Why not?".

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

If God came down and told me himself, so that I had personal and irrefutable proof of his existence, that he exists and that the bible is his entire and full will, then I would absolutely follow it. However I have no confirmation that your God DOES exist merely that *a* god exists.

You have no evidence that "a" god exists. As we've already established above, you have created your own Snuffleupagus-of-the-gaps to explain everything you don't understand. That's it.

If God appeared and told you something Himself, you would not have faith in Him. You would have knowledge. Faith is required only when you do not have knowledge.

That's the point.

When I talked about the 613 commandments, I was speaking of Judaism, in which there are 613 commandments. http://www.chabad.org/library/articl...13-Mitzvot.htm if you can muster the effort to read through them all you may see my point that some of the rules are superfluous and covered with previous rules, like my prior examples. I did not say it was part of the Torah.

But they are.

You said you followed the Torah, not the Bible. The Torah is a subset of the Bible. You have no clue whatsoever what you are talking about.

So the bible directs you to kill anyone with homosexual relations, but also commands you "Thou shallt not kill". This is a contradiction, in that if you kill anyone who has had a homosexual relation you have violated one of the 10 commandments, which makes you as guilty as if you had broken all 10 of them, as established in one of your previous posts.

No, it is not. God does not contradict Himself.

There is a difference between killing someone in a criminal sense, and executing someone as directed by God. I'm sorry you are unable to comprehend the difference.

If a child dies of dysentry, it may have had purpose to it. It may have raised awareness of poor health conditions, and thus had a positive effect on that environment, improving sanitation and hygiene. There are a myriad of possible reasons why that child died of dysentry, as such it does mean god is being vindictive and just going "Here you go have some dysentry." it most likely had a very real purpose and effect even if it's not apparent to us.

Or maybe God had another bet going with Satan, as in the Book of Job, where God allowed Satan to kill off Job's slaves, and cattle, and entire family, and torment him with boils, all to prove to Satan that Job wouldn't abandon Him.

But I do think it mighty disturbing that you think God would allow a little baby to slowly and painfully shit itself to death to teach others a lesson . . . particularly when most of them die unnoticed in their Third World hell-holes.

What kind of a sick monster is this Snuffleupagus of yours, that he'd do such a disgusting thing to a baby? That's cruel and horrible.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Now I know you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

The Torah is the first five books of the Bible.

And at no point does the Bible (or the Torah) say "don't have homosexual relations with your father, and don't have homosexual relations with your brother, and don't have homosexual relations with your neighbor".

In fact, at no point does the Bible direct us not to have homosexual relations at all.

It directs us to execute anyone who has homosexual relations.


Except he's not. You made yours up because you can't comprehend the idea of the universe being without inherent meaning; therefore, you need a god of some sort, but not one that actually commands you to do or not do things (as God does). So, you rejected God, and made up Snuffleupagus to fill the void in your life.

At least atheists have the courage to live life without making up a deity.

An omnipotent god, by definition, is responsible for everything, either through commission or omission.

A child dies of dysentery? God could have prevented it, but chose not to. Or, He caused it. Pick one. Either way, it was God's Will that the child poo itself to death.

You also build fires, yes? Part of life?

Numbers 15:32-36
Do bear in mind that Numbers is the fourth book of the Bible, therefore within the Torah you so respect.

An atheist puts his lack of faith before God. Therefore, like you, atheists will be executed under Biblical Law once it is instituted.

Unless, of course, you get right with God before then.

If God came down and told me himself, so that I had personal and irrefutable proof of his existence, that he exists and that the bible is his entire and full will, then I would absolutely follow it. However I have no confirmation that your God DOES exist merely that *a* god exists.


When I talked about the 613 commandments, I was speaking of Judaism, in which there are 613 commandments. http://www.chabad.org/library/articl...13-Mitzvot.htm if you can muster the effort to read through them all you may see my point that some of the rules are superfluous and covered with previous rules, like my prior examples. I did not say it was part of the Torah.

So the bible directs you to kill anyone with homosexual relations, but also commands you "Thou shallt not kill". This is a contradiction, in that if you kill anyone who has had a homosexual relation you have violated one of the 10 commandments, which makes you as guilty as if you had broken all 10 of them, as established in one of your previous posts.

If a child dies of dysentry, it may have had purpose to it. It may have raised awareness of poor health conditions, and thus had a positive effect on that environment, improving sanitation and hygiene. There are a myriad of possible reasons why that child died of dysentry, as such it does mean god is being vindictive and just going "Here you go have some dysentry." it most likely had a very real purpose and effect even if it's not apparent to us.


In truth I don't know if I'll ever get right with a religion. There's too many holes that can't be filled because I wasn't around during the time these things were happening. But that does not mean there is no chance either. I can not be omnipotent, so my future is entirely masked and thus anything could happen. I may even become Pope one day *joke*. I can't possibly know.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

There's many things my Snuffleupagus could be. Thing's I can't possibly explain having, like a conscience . . .

The only proof of his existence I can conceive of is that the world around me simply can not be created by chance, not one part of it . . .

Now it all makes sense! You worship "the god of the gaps".

Whatever you do not understand is Snuffleupagus.

You don't understand how humans, who according to atheists "evolved" to be hard-wired to cooperate, have a conscience. Therefore, Snuffleupagus.

You don't understand how God created the universe in 6 days. Therefore, Snuffleupagus.

You don't understand laws of probability when you narrowly avoid an accident. Therefore, Snuffleupagus.

The Snuffleupagus of the gaps is just your way of avoiding having to acknowledge your own ignorance, and deal with the uncertainty left when you remove Snuffleupagus.

Just switch out "Aliens" for "Snuffleupagus", and you're just like this loser:



Wouldn't it make much more sense to follow God, who is always there, no matter what we do or do not understand, than to "follow" your ever-shrinking Snuffleupagus, who wastes away becoming more withered and pathetic as you learn more and more about the universe and humanity?

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Thank you for your reply. I am concerned for your soul and shall pray for you.

Bathfire: "But if everyone agreed with you, they would be following your faith. Your faith is the Word of Man (i.e. you!). So you are following the Word of Man that you say you should not follow????"
Tempered: "I suppose that is true."

There is only one conclusion here: You have invented your own god.
There is no proof of his existence,
If you ever ceased to believe in him nothing would befall you
If he weren't there nothing would be different.
Of necessity, that god must be false.
As that god is personal and private to you, its opinions are yours (you cannot disagree with yourself.)
You worship the god you made in your image - you worship yourself.
Or is your god more like an old teddybear, a comfort and a reminder of happier days? An uncritical but imaginary friend? An explanation for what you cannot understand?

Now, it strikes me that this is like having a ready made Cadillac Escalade sitting in your garage (God) but deciding instead to make an SUV yourself out of recycled parts from a junk yard (your god).

Face it, you claim that your god has made the universe, when it is clear that God did that job 6,000 years ago. Tell me how your god did this? Is he all powerful as God is? Can the two co-exist? Are you or your god an enemy of God?

There's many things my Snuffleupagus could be. Thing's I can't possibly explain having, like a conscience. How can I explain it's existence? Mayhaps it is my very own god talking to me. Directing me away from wrong doings and helping me be a good person. I do agree on your analogy of the Escalade and junk yard SUV. I have rejected that which was made before me in order to construct something myself. But if I do construct it myself then it will most likely meet my own expectations and needs, which is a fault of it. But then again, maybe my conscience will make it so it is not? I don't fully understand it myself, but did the disciples of Jesus at first? I am not putting myself on the same level akin with them, I am just saying that my situation right now is not too far different from what they were in at the very beginning, whatever comes of what I'm doing now, whether it's nothing or something.

The only proof of his existence I can conceive of is that the world around me simply can not be created by chance, not one part of it. If I ever ceased to believe in him I do not know what would happen, as it isn't possible for me to lose my belief in him because the world around me is a constant reminder of his existence. How would I know if the world around me would be any different without him? Snuffleupagus has always been there, it just took me time to see it.

As to whether Snuffleupagus' oppinions are my own, perhaps it is the other way around? That my oppinions are formed off of what Snuffleupagus has shown me through my conscience.

Snuffleupagus also had no image up until the point Reverend Rodimer suggested the Muppets character as a safe reference to him while I'm here. He still doesn't ultimately have a form but now that I found it amusing that my god might look like Snuffleupagus the image is stuck in my mind .


It is entirely possible Snuffleupagus is my mind constructing something that is reason for everything around me, and that he is entirely fictional. I am well aware of that possibility but it does not mean I believe it. It's the same as your belief you reason God must exist because of the world around you and the Bible itself. But if the Bible was never written, perhaps you would be in the same position as I am now? Believing there is a god but without the depth the Bible gives?

I can not claim that my god created the universe, I do not know my god. He might be omnipotent and infinite in power like your God. He might be have no more power than to whisper into my conscience. I do not know, I can't possibly know unless Snuffleupagus appears before me. It's an unquantified value. For you it is quantified (I use this word loosely because infinity is not a quantity, it is by nature unquantified because it has no set magnitude) because of the Bible and it's works. You have a starting value. I don't. If Snuffleupagus had workings as vast as the Bible maybe he would have. But obviously, he doesn't.


It does however make me happy that you pray for my soul. Regardless of the diversity between our beliefs I do appreciate it's sentiment, and it is a friendly gesture that is not lost on me. In particular I have a great deal of respect for you and what you have said Mr. Bathfire, even if you do not for what I have said (although there is not implication that you do not, I just feel it correct to write that, to cover my bases so to speak.).

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

That was in response to Ezekiel Bathfire, who I think proposed the question as if I were Jewish, as he said 613 commandments, which appears in the Torah, not the Bible. What I said was not in reference to the Bible, but he Torah instead.

Now I know you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

The Torah is the first five books of the Bible.

And at no point does the Bible (or the Torah) say "don't have homosexual relations with your father, and don't have homosexual relations with your brother, and don't have homosexual relations with your neighbor".

In fact, at no point does the Bible direct us not to have homosexual relations at all.

It directs us to execute anyone who has homosexual relations.

Theoretically, and philosophically - and I hope this doesn't offend you - but consider the possibility that my Snuffleupagus is the same as your God. Like how you might know someone, you may know some guy called Jim as a normal guy, but to someone else he may be a motorcycling Christian rock star. They're not two different people, they're both Jim just with different personal perspectives for you and the other person. Again, I'm not trying to offend here, but it is my consideration that perhaps the god I believe relates or is even the same as a good for a religion. It's like if I had been born in a place that has no religion and stumbled upon god in my own way there, and then someone else came to where I was and told me of Christianity's God and my thoughts are that they are possibly one and the same.

Except he's not. You made yours up because you can't comprehend the idea of the universe being without inherent meaning; therefore, you need a god of some sort, but not one that actually commands you to do or not do things (as God does). So, you rejected God, and made up Snuffleupagus to fill the void in your life.

At least atheists have the courage to live life without making up a deity.

To me it means not to use his name as a curse word, in foul language, or in a negative context. Like "Snufleupagus damn it!" or saying that he is at fault for something, or excusing yourself by saying it's god's fault. By definition an omnipotent god can't be at fault for anything.

An omnipotent god, by definition, is responsible for everything, either through commission or omission.

A child dies of dysentery? God could have prevented it, but chose not to. Or, He caused it. Pick one. Either way, it was God's Will that the child poo itself to death.

Hmm in this context you are right, that I don't follow it. I do prepare my own food but only because it doesn't dawn on me that it *is* work. It's simply life. If you're hungry, you make food.

You also build fires, yes? Part of life?

Numbers 15:32-36

32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.

35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Do bear in mind that Numbers is the fourth book of the Bible, therefore within the Torah you so respect.

An atheist wouldn't put any god before anything. They have no god. They don't recognise any god. To them, all gods are imaginary and have no substance so to them it's the same as you putting my imaginary god up against your real God. But for them it's the idea of including something imaginary in their real lives.

An atheist puts his lack of faith before God. Therefore, like you, atheists will be executed under Biblical Law once it is instituted.

Unless, of course, you get right with God before then.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Your first and third parts conflict.

Jesus said that all of the Law is still in effect. That includes stoning homosexuals and adulterers like Newt Gingrich to death. That includes exterminating anyone who attempts to lead Christians from their faith to any other, like Richard Dawkins or Tom Cruise.

But why, since you are a follower of the unknowable Snuffleupagus, do you care what the Bible says? You don't believe in God, so why would His Word matter at all to you?

This makes no sense to me. You might as well be a Hindu saying you wholeheartedly follow the Quran.

In Leviticus it says that any who commit homosexuality have performed abomination and ought to be put to the death.

In the 10 commandments it says "Thou shallt not kill."

It does not say "Thou shallt not kill anyone except for homosexuals."
It just says "Thou shallt not kill." No exceptions.

And seeing as that part is Moses claiming God is speaking through him, or to him and having him convey his message, then I can only assume that either Moses was lying, or the 10 commandments were a lie, as God said "Thou shallt not kill." and was then saying something conflicting. And God does not conflict with himself. Ever. He says what he says and that is it. I choose to believe that the 10 commandments are the true words of God, not what Moses the man said to the people. This is what I mean by trusting the word of God and not the word of Men. If I came to you and told you that God speaks through me, and that leeks must be burned in a great pyre, would you believe me or would you cast doubt on it? It is not enough for a man to simply say that God speaks through you for me. You can ultimately say anything you like, but without proof. Even the burning bush could have been fabricated by Moses, a lie to give himself credibility. So much information is lost through time that it's nigh impossible to prove much of it except for Jesus' existence, and through personal observation of the world around you, the existence of god, God, Allah, Vishnu, Snuffleupagus (whichever applies).


Just because I don't follow the bible, it does not mean I do not want to read it, know it's meaning and understand it fully. Just because I am not Christian does not mean I can not gain any knowledge through it, or it's discussion here. Do you think that wrong of me?

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Thank you for your reply. I am concerned for your soul and shall pray for you.

Bathfire: "But if everyone agreed with you, they would be following your faith. Your faith is the Word of Man (i.e. you!). So you are following the Word of Man that you say you should not follow????"
Tempered: "I suppose that is true."

There is only one conclusion here: You have invented your own god.
There is no proof of his existence,
If you ever ceased to believe in him nothing would befall you
If he weren't there nothing would be different.
Of necessity, that god must be false.
As that god is personal and private to you, its opinions are yours (you cannot disagree with yourself.)
You worship the god you made in your image - you worship yourself.
Or is your god more like an old teddybear, a comfort and a reminder of happier days? An uncritical but imaginary friend? An explanation for what you cannot understand?

Now, it strikes me that this is like having a ready made Cadillac Escalade sitting in your garage (God) but deciding instead to make an SUV yourself out of recycled parts from a junk yard (your god).

Face it, you claim that your god has made the universe, when it is clear that God did that job 6,000 years ago. Tell me how your god did this? Is he all powerful as God is? Can the two co-exist? Are you or your god an enemy of God?