[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

I did not join these forums because I am a believer in Christianity, although my belief that Jesus was indeed a true figure in history, and a grand one at that, is not in question.

So where did you find out about Jesus and how did you decide which bits to believe?

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Your Faith alone will protect you from losing ground while being in the presence of sinners. Your Faith is devout and untouchable, pure. It can not be tarnished by the presence of a sinner, it can be offended, but not changed. I personally believe the sentiment is not that you should NEVER be around them, but that you should not allow them to doubt your own Faith. Is that a misinterpretation? Or only part of it?

2 John 1:10 says receive him not in your house. How do you interpret that to mean something completely different than what it says?

1st Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1st Corinthians 5:11 teaches us not to keep company with sinners, nor to eat near them. I suppose you think that means something completely different than what it says.

1st John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1st John 2:15 tells us to refrain from loving the world.

Where do you get the idea that we should love the world? Not from the Bible.

It is really just sick, the way you take a Bible quote, use it to defend a position opposite of what it says, and call that an "interpretation". That is not an interpretation. It is a contradiction. You are contradicting scripture when you do that, in such a way as I would only expect from an antiChrist or a false prophet or some other whore of Satan.

[Rev. Edward Clement]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Yes sinners can turn away on their own, but only through their own judgement of what you provide them. If all I see of the Christians here, if it is the only example of Christians I have is of them being brutally harsh, insulting and rude to me then why would I wilfully choose to become that? I'm not saying you ARE bitter and resentful, as I have examples of Christians who are not like that in my life, I'm saying that is the image you're portraying to me, a potential convert and the possible image you will portray to future persons.

That is not what the bibles says, that is what false-Christian hereitics, like your friends say.

You will not get saved when you want to.

John
6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

These "examples" of Christians that you are talking about sound like fluffy bunny false-Christians to me. We are not told to be nice to unbelievers in the bible, we are told to shun you, heathen.


1 Corinthians

6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.


I am not going to repeat myself to you again. You will look, and read these scriptures. I have told you twice now.


Titus

3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

I see your future and I know that you are going to hell for eternity.

Contrary to what you want to percieve, because you percieve amiss, we True-Christians™ are not bitter. Quite the contrary, we are full of love, and peace, and we have a sound mind, unlike you foul heathens, of course...


1 Timothy
1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Why are we thus? Because the Lord predetermined that it would be so.

1 Timothy
1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

The WORD says what it says; do not question the WORD!!

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Moreover, the second epistle warns us not to lose ground by mingling with sinners. 2 John 1:7-11. John tells us not to let these people get too close. In fact, John tells us DO NOT RECEIVE THEM in 2 John 1:10.

Your Faith alone will protect you from losing ground while being in the presence of sinners. Your Faith is devout and untouchable, pure. It can not be tarnished by the presence of a sinner, it can be offended, but not changed. I personally believe the sentiment is not that you should NEVER be around them, but that you should not allow them to doubt your own Faith. Is that a misinterpretation? Or only part of it?

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

False. We try to teach the people who come here how to be good Christians. James 5:20 tells us that we turn a person from sin, we save a soul.

But we also read the Epistles of Peter and of John. In 2 Peter 2:20-22 we are told that sinners turn away from us on their own, like a dog returning to its own puke. This is certainly not our fault.

Should we just accept everyone? No. In the first Epistle of John, John warns us that the end of the world is nigh, and we should live righteous lives free from sin. 1 John 2:17-18.

Moreover, the second epistle warns us not to lose ground by mingling with sinners. 2 John 1:7-11. John tells us not to let these people get too close. In fact, John tells us DO NOT RECEIVE THEM in 2 John 1:10.

We provide all comers to Landover access to our extensive understanding of the Bible. We follow the Bible as God commands. We do not sin. 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 4:6. And if the fornicators and the sinners turn away from our message, that is THEIR problem.

Your suggestion that the sheer numbers of all these sinners can turn the battle to the defeat of God in Heaven suggests that God is weak and powerless. I would like to see your scriptural support for the possibility that God can lose Heaven if too many people switch allegiance to Satan.

It's not the defeat of God in heaven, it is a suggested bet. Perhaps Satan places this bet, knowing that the souls in hell outnumber the souls in heaven and if placed on an equal battlefield, armed the same, they may very well win through sheer advantage of numbers.
This is a hypothetical example in which I am just saying that every saved soul is worth the effort put into saving it. It may never HAPPEN but Satan is cunning in his deceit. God would be locked in such a bet. If he accepts the bet he may lose, if he refuses the bet then it is a possible acknowledgement of weakness. I know that sentence alone will spark sentiments of sacrilege but if you only consider the LOGIC of the argument it may make sense.

Yes sinners can turn away on their own, but only through their own judgement of what you provide them. If all I see of the Christians here, if it is the only example of Christians I have is of them being brutally harsh, insulting and rude to me then why would I wilfully choose to become that? I'm not saying you ARE bitter and resentful, as I have examples of Christians who are not like that in my life, I'm saying that is the image you're portraying to me, a potential convert and the possible image you will portray to future persons.

[ExGay Alex]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Let us say, theoretically, that maybe in the future, God has a standing bet with Satan in that all the souls that reside in Heaven and Hell are pitted in a battle against each other in order to assert proof of dominance (although proof is obvious already, Satan is wilful) then what happens if all the people you neglect and shun and spurn and do not ultimately teach because of how you push them away wind up tipping the balance against heaven? You have the choice to bring your faith to people but you merely push them away with your intolerance and your message is lost on their ears.

False. We try to teach the people who come here how to be good Christians. James 5:20 tells us that we turn a person from sin, we save a soul.

But we also read the Epistles of Peter and of John. In 2 Peter 2:20-22 we are told that sinners turn away from us on their own, like a dog returning to its own puke. This is certainly not our fault.

Should we just accept everyone? No. In the first Epistle of John, John warns us that the end of the world is nigh, and we should live righteous lives free from sin. 1 John 2:17-18.

Moreover, the second epistle warns us not to lose ground by mingling with sinners. 2 John 1:7-11. John tells us not to let these people get too close. In fact, John tells us DO NOT RECEIVE THEM in 2 John 1:10.

We provide all comers to Landover access to our extensive understanding of the Bible. We follow the Bible as God commands. We do not sin. 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 4:6. And if the fornicators and the sinners turn away from our message, that is THEIR problem.

Your suggestion that the sheer numbers of all these sinners can turn the battle to the defeat of God in Heaven suggests that God is weak and powerless. I would like to see your scriptural support for the possibility that God can lose Heaven if too many people switch allegiance to Satan.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Let us say, theoretically, that maybe in the future, God has a standing bet with Satan in that all the souls that reside in Heaven and Hell are pitted in a battle against each other in order to assert proof of dominance (although proof is obvious already, Satan is wilful) then what happens if all the people you neglect and shun and spurn and do not ultimately teach because of how you push them away wind up tipping the balance against heaven? You have the choice to bring your faith to people but you merely push them away with your intolerance and your message is lost on their ears. People like Ezekiel Bathfire and Reverend M. Rodimer have taken the time to reason and argue with me, and their message is resounding clearer in my ears than yours ever could as it is based in sensible argument and logical reason. Yours is likened unto a belligerent child, changing what I say to suit their views, taking whatever meaning they choose to rather than the one I mean, and ultimately not delivering anything useful (aside from the bible quotations) except for bile and spittle. Your words thus far are worthless to me, so I request that you either teach me in ways I can comprehend or don't teach at all. Seeing as you view me as a retard, my way of thinking and comprehension is alien to you, and thus you are unable to teach me. This leaves the later option - do not attempt to teach me at all.


On a side note, thank you Ezekiel Bathfire and Reverend M. Rodimer. It is not my place to judge others, but your words are far more useful to me than others thus far, and I appreciate the time and effort you have put into this thread. It has been enlightening, and informative for me. Over the next few days I will be transferring to a new location, so I may be out of reach for a time - but I will attempt to come back to this thread to read what you may post here. I wish you good health in the time between, as your Faith is strong.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Wrong, that makes one a prophet, which is a still functioning office of ministry, and it is one of the gisfts of the Spirit.

So you're a prophet?

[Rev. Edward Clement]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Incoherent babble deleted.....unless you can predict the future. In which case that makes you God.

More to the point I was born with a disability, both mental and physical, and as such am retarded.

Wrong, that makes one a prophet, which is a still functioning office of ministry, and it is one of the gifts of the Spirit.

Ephesians
4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

1 Corinthians
12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
And in maintaining your retardendness, because you cannot help it(you are retarded after all), you have no clue what you are talking about, and you remain damned.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

True. Usually people who are wholly ignorant of God or civilized life. And usually people ignored by the civilized world; so the lesson would be wasted.

In truth I don't think any lesson is ever wasted. Any progress is still progress in my eyes, and the intervention there would likely make even the smallest of changes. It's what missionaries of old set out to do and some did bring Christianity to parts of the world with no religion.

Exactly. But I would never assume that God tormented a child to teach someone else a lesson.

Not that He couldn't do so, of course. It just wouldn't be something I would reach for as a likely conclusion. I don't recall it being the case in the Bible.

Now, tormenting someone to win a bet, yes, He did that.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I assume anything about God. Although when he did torment Abraham in the book of Genesis in the Binding of Isaac, it did have a greater purpose, in proving his Abraham's Faith. And winning a bet over Satan always has purpose. God is omnipotent and all powerful, if he had lost the bet it would have proven otherwise. Winning the bet maintained the fact.

I'd like to think that God does everything with a purpose in mind, and does not do anything frivolously. Obviously he can if he wants to, it just doesn't fit the idea of an omnipotent and all powerful God.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

I see where we are miscommunicating. Just as "kill" can have different meanings and connotations, so can "faith".

Yes, if you have "proof" of God's existence, you can have trust in Him.

However, by "faith" we mean as in Hebrews 11:1. (Just hover your mouse over the link to see the text.)

I understand it is necessary for you to have Faith (denoted with capital F for clarity from hence forth) that God exists, is it for the same reasons I said earlier? I can understand it being necessary just not the particular reason behind it. What I mean is, through your texts and history you can see that God exists, but you may have no personal experience that tells you he does, only historical, so is Faith what fills the space there? (That may be a poor choice of words for the last part, apologies if it is.)

Is it necessary to have Faith as written in the bible? (in the context of meeting God himself, as we've gotten through that Faith is what you have without knowledge of his existence) or is it just that you worship and love him as in the commandments?

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Well, given that you are retarded, everything.

Your blatant sinful, and idolatrous lifestyle is a spit in the face of Jesus, and he has cursed you.

Leviticus
26:17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

I think you have merely read what you wanted to read and are being spiteful because it suits you. Merely insulting me isn't going to achieve anything except to satisfy your ego in being a Christian. You can sit there and insult me all day but in the end you're not being helpful to your cause, the possibility of me converting to Christianity is not lost, unless you can predict the future. In which case that makes you God.

More to the point I was not born with a disability, either mental or physical, and as such am not retarded. What I have is an ailment of society.

[Rev. Edward Clement]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

What have I misunderstood?

Well, given that you are retarded, everything.

Your blatant sinful, and idolatrous lifestyle is a spit in the face of Jesus, and he has cursed you.

Leviticus
26:17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

It's not that I can't see the difference, I just can't see why they are mutually exclusive. If I had Faith in his existence that would imply I didn't have knowledge of his existence, which makes your statement correct. But if I knew of his existence I could have Faith in God. I think maybe I'm taking the definition of faith as in having complete and utter trust in someone.

I see where we are miscommunicating. Just as "kill" can have different meanings and connotations, so can "faith".

Yes, if you have "proof" of God's existence, you can have trust in Him.

However, by "faith" we mean as in Hebrews 11:1. (Just hover your mouse over the link to see the text.)

Hah, that's not entirely what I meant. Dysentery is only really found in extremely bad sanitation environs. And I mean seriously bad.

True. Usually people who are wholly ignorant of God or civilized life. And usually people ignored by the civilized world; so the lesson would be wasted.

If Snuffleupagus did inflict it on the child then it *could* have been out of sheer whimsy, or it might have had purpose. I don't know. But you can't really admonish my god for it, yours does it deliberately too. The whole thing is part of God's plan as far as you're concerned, right?

Exactly. But I would never assume that God tormented a child to teach someone else a lesson.

Not that He couldn't do so, of course. It just wouldn't be something I would reach for as a likely conclusion. I don't recall it being the case in the Bible.

Now, tormenting someone to win a bet, yes, He did that.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Ohhhh I get you, you mean I should be utterly destroyed? Is that correct?