[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Except the Bible says no such thing. Maybe you should try reading the Bible before telling us what it says, friend.

That was in response to Ezekiel Bathfire, who I think proposed the question as if I were Jewish, as he said 613 commandments, which appears in the Torah, not the Bible. What I said was not in reference to the Bible, but he Torah instead.

Nonsense. You have already denied Him. You have your own made-up "nature's god" nonsense, which happens always to agree with you.

Theoretically, and philosophically - and I hope this doesn't offend you - but consider the possibility that my Snuffleupagus is the same as your God. Like how you might know someone, you may know some guy called Jim as a normal guy, but to someone else he may be a motorcycling Christian rock star. They're not two different people, they're both Jim just with different personal perspectives for you and the other person. Again, I'm not trying to offend here, but it is my consideration that perhaps the god I believe relates or is even the same as a good for a religion. It's like if I had been born in a place that has no religion and stumbled upon god in my own way there, and then someone else came to where I was and told me of Christianity's God and my thoughts are that they are possibly one and the same.

Do you even know what it means to take His name in vain? Please explain.

To me it means not to use his name as a curse word, in foul language, or in a negative context. Like "Snufleupagus damn it!" or saying that he is at fault for something, or excusing yourself by saying it's god's fault. By definition an omnipotent god can't be at fault for anything.

Do you prepare your own food? That is laboring, and is forbidden.

Do you go out to eat? That is permitting someone else to labor, and is forbidden.

So, do you follow this commandment or not?

Hmm in this context you are right, that I don't follow it. I do prepare my own food but only because it doesn't dawn on me that it *is* work. It's simply life. If you're hungry, you make food. I could just as easily prepare it the day before. Mostly what I said stemmed from the fact that where I am Sunday is recognised as a day off, although unofficially written so, it is a general consensus.

How would God's Sabbath, and not having other gods, and not taking God's name in vain, and not having idols, be "instilled in everyone regardless of whether they follow religion"?

Why, for example, would an atheist (or a Deist) not work on the Sabbath? Why would an atheist put God before other gods, when the atheist believes in no gods? Why would the Deist, when he doesn't believe that Yahweh exists, but instead some unknowable "something"?

Well as said above, Sunday, the Sabbath day is usually a day off, although in context of what you said it's not usually taken so literally as "NO WORK". Even Catholic's and Protestant's over here will often have Sunday Roasts with their families. In the sense that you put it in, I suppose that's not abided by. I hadn't considered that perspective. As for not taking God's name in vain, if you didn't have a religion then the word "God" has no meaning to it, it wouldn't have a place in your vocabulary. If you followed a religion other than Christianity then your god is equally as held in reverence so why would you take his name in vain then? Even Hinduism gets away with it, saying that although they have a multitude of gods they are not SEPARATE. They are representations in parts of their supreme being, a divine being that encompasses each of them.

Why would someone with no religion (or a religion with no such concepts) equally have idol's depicting heaven, hell, god, God, Allah, Snuffleupagus, ad infinitum when they have no meaning to them. It would be like putting up a small statue of Vishnu in your home. To someone with the religion that follows it, it's a significant symbol. To you it's just a funny statue. It has no relevance to your religion at all, nor any weight or meaning behind it except what you might personally put on it, like if it had sentimental value as remembrance of you perhaps travelling to India. If you, however, KNEW it was a statue of a god featured in Hinduism you would not have it. Everything is about meaning to other people. To some it's a cool statue, to some it's a blasphemous piece of waste. It's like the video I saw on one of the threads here about the JFK airport being entirely phallic. You can choose to see what you want to see. You can either think to yourself "It looks like a phallus, it must be because they MADE it purposefully to look like one, with sinister and malicious intent." Or you can think it's just the way it is because it made sense, and that it's appearance of being phallic is just entirely coincidental and wasn't in mind at all in it's creation. Of course it's going to be what crosses your mind but it doesn't make it true. It's an assumption, not fact.


An atheist wouldn't put any god before anything. They have no god. They don't recognise any god. To them, all gods are imaginary and have no substance so to them it's the same as you putting my imaginary god up against your real God. But for them it's the idea of including something imaginary in their real lives.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

First part: Well yes, it's like any set of rules. You break one, you're guilty. You may as well have broken them all because it's not going to change your guilt.

Second part: I believe that has infinite power, to do anything he so pleases, but I don't fear him for it as power is not naturally good or evil, it is....a tool, would be the easiest way to describe it. So far Snuffleupagus hasn't destroyed my life or made me burst into flames so he must have a good head on his shoulders on what to do with his power. I mean he brought me here didn't he?

Third part: Jesus was sound in his teachings. Not one of them is violent or negative. A few are warnings of grave consequence but none order you to destroy a life or something as dire as that.

Fourth part: Sorry, misuse of words there. For any time I have written "writings of Jesus" or something similar, please assume I meant to say his sayings that were written.

Your first and third parts conflict.

Jesus said that all of the Law is still in effect. That includes stoning homosexuals and adulterers like Newt Gingrich to death. That includes exterminating anyone who attempts to lead Christians from their faith to any other, like Richard Dawkins or Tom Cruise.

But why, since you are a follower of the unknowable Snuffleupagus, do you care what the Bible says? You don't believe in God, so why would His Word matter at all to you?

This makes no sense to me. You might as well be a Hindu saying you wholeheartedly follow the Quran.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Omnibenevolence is not a Biblical concept. It is an invention of lying false-christian pastors who want to tell people happy lies so they will come back each week and give money.

Ahh thank you for clearing that up Reverend. That, I admit, is a mistake on my part and I apologise. Maybe it was a mistake for me to come here, but none the less I have enjoyed it, not because it has upset some of you - far from it. But the argument between you and I so far has been enjoyable for me.

Then don't call your imaginary "greater power" "God". That's the name of a specific deity, the Christian god is called "God". That's why it's capitalized; it's a proper noun. Call the figment of your imagination something else. "Conscience", maybe. "URL="http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._Snuffleupagus"]Snuffleupagus[/URL]" would work, as he's supposed to be imaginary.

Sorry, I guess the implication there was lost on me. I referenced my belief of god as God because, to me, not to you, he is a deity and has no name, but seeing as it is just me (as far as I'm aware at any rate) that has considered the topic like I have any name would do for him. I quite like Snuffleupagus though from henceforth it shall be named so.

So when He said that the entirety of the [Old Testament] Law was still in effect, and that someone guilty in one point was guilty of all, you believe Him?

When He said not to fear those with the power to kill, but rather to fear God who has power to kill and cast into Hell, you believe Him?

Your words in other posts conflict with your assertion that you "wholeheartedly follow" Jesus' teachings.

And friend, Jesus has no writings. The earliest Gospel was written several decades after His Resurrection.

First part: Well yes, it's like any set of rules. You break one, you're guilty. You may as well have broken them all because it's not going to change your guilt.

Second part: I believe that has infinite power, to do anything he so pleases, but I don't fear him for it as power is not naturally good or evil, it is....a tool, would be the easiest way to describe it. So far Snuffleupagus hasn't destroyed my life or made me burst into flames so he must have a good head on his shoulders on what to do with his power. I mean he brought me here didn't he?

Third part: Jesus was sound in his teachings. Not one of them is violent or negative. A few are warnings of grave consequence but none order you to destroy a life or something as dire as that.

Fourth part: Sorry, misuse of words there. For any time I have written "writings of Jesus" or something similar, please assume I meant to say his sayings that were written.

So you also do not believe His teaching that He and God are one, and that He would (and did) return.

How does that work with "wholeheartedly following" His teachings?

No that's not what I meant at all. I do believe that he had the spirit of God (in context of your religion) in him, but he was still in a mortal shell. He did die, and he rose again, but I assume he is dead now of natural causes perhaps - he was living in a human body, and although his power is infinite, if his purpose on Earth was not finished he would still be here - although it's impossible to say that he's not still here though. That does not mean to me God is dead at all, merely that he had his time on earth and spent it achieving what he came here to do, and now is back in his usual residence. So I do believe the holy trinity, all aspects. That he is the father of all creation, infinite in itself with no limits, that he is the son, Jesus, that he is the spirit - that which passed from his existence as God to his existence as his son Jesus. If I've misunderstood any of the holy trinity, please update me.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

While in Judaism there are 613 commandments, very many of them can be filtered down into a handful, for example they say "Do not have homosexual sexual relations." and "Do not have homosexual sexual relations with your father." and "Not to have homosexual sexual relations with your father's brother." but are all encompassed by the first, which is simply "Do not have homosexual sexual relations." which applies to all homosexuality regardless of who's involved, making the following rules superfluous.

Except the Bible says no such thing. Maybe you should try reading the Bible before telling us what it says, friend.

1. Thou shallt have no other god's before me.

This is hard for me to word properly. I do believe in god, but not the faith's attached to him. I don't worship God, god or Allah. To me this commandment still applies to my life as in my eyes the god I believe in could very likely be the same God you all believe in.

Nonsense. You have already denied Him. You have your own made-up "nature's god" nonsense, which happens always to agree with you.

2.Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

I would not make any idol's of heaven or hell, simply because I can't possibly know what they are like. A few envisage Heaven as pearly gates, sun rays and clouds, other's envisage it as likened unto the Garden of Eden, but these are all people's ideas, you can't know for sure. Even hell is spoke of as a place of eternal torment and damnation but are there walls? Is it an infinite place? What colour is the fire? Is there even any fire? Why should the torment be confined unto what hurts us in this plane of existence? I can't possibly make out an idea of these places and thus can not imagine them. I don't even know if the existence of your souls in either place has a shape.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

I would never do that.

Do you even know what it means to take His name in vain? Please explain.

4. Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

I don't work Sunday's. I widely recognise it as a day of rest.

Do you prepare your own food? That is laboring, and is forbidden.

Do you go out to eat? That is permitting someone else to labor, and is forbidden.

So, do you follow this commandment or not?

All of the commandments are within basic reason for any human being, with faith or without. They are nearly instilled in everyone regardless of whether they follow religion or not. There are a few exceptions who have been taught by example of depraved lives but then that is not their fault they did not have a good teacher.

How would God's Sabbath, and not having other gods, and not taking God's name in vain, and not having idols, be "instilled in everyone regardless of whether they follow religion"?

Why, for example, would an atheist (or a Deist) not work on the Sabbath? Why would an atheist put God before other gods, when the atheist believes in no gods? Why would the Deist, when he doesn't believe that Yahweh exists, but instead some unknowable "something"?

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Are you a Jew? They are weird - they refuse to accept Christ as God and commit the final unforgivable sin of denying the Holy Spirit. Personally, I think it is because they can't get their thick heads around the simple concept of The Holy Trinity being Three-In-One.Are the strictures of man or Of God?

No, I'm not Jewish. From an outside perspective I hope you understand that all religions appear weird, not to you because it *is* your faith, your belief and your life. But if you lived a life without a religion then religion as a foreign concept on your life is a foreign concept, different unto what you live. A lot of the Jewish strictures bear on things like not to eat pork, camel, rabbit or shellfish, that your mother MUST be Jewish in order for you to be Jewish and to study the Torah, the equivalent of the Bible for their faith, amongst other strictures. However in terms of the Holy trinity, Judaism forbids the worship of idols as gods, and as such Jesus is considered a false prophet as he claimed to be the son of god. That is not to say his teachings and sayings were not powerful and generally morally right, that is to say they did not recognise him as a being with the spirit of god - just a man with great teachings. But because of his claimed link to god he was cast as a false prophet as it clashed with the basic tenets of Judaism. *Please note that throughout this I used "god" with a lower case G to accommodate the distinguishment between the Jewish god and Christian God.

Yes, that's right, The Trinity is One... I said that. God uses His Servants (mankind) to do His Most Perfect Writing - He very rarely writes himself (you must have relatives like that) He did write the Commandments and on the Wall of Nebuchadnezzar's palace though.

Yes, I agree with the holy trinity that God himself was present in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, not that each were representations of him but that each WERE him, and not separate from him. What I don't understand is how it is determined that his Servants were speaking his word and not simply their own words? This is where my doubt comes into play as I can not be certain, having not known the people (impossible to do so) I can not make judgements on their integrity. It's like hearing something out of context, judgement can't be made until you know the whole story - at least for me.

As a consequence, you know that the 10 Commandments (all 613 of them) are actually God's Word. You say it is important to follow God's and not men's Word. If you follow the 10 Commandments, then you obey God and thus worship Him: so what's this crap about rejecting the parts of the Bible that you don't like?

While in Judaism there are 613 commandments, very many of them can be filtered down into a handful, for example they say "Do not have homosexual sexual relations." and "Do not have homosexual sexual relations with your father." and "Not to have homosexual sexual relations with your father's brother." but are all encompassed by the first, which is simply "Do not have homosexual sexual relations." which applies to all homosexuality regardless of who's involved, making the following rules superfluous. I suppose I am rejecting parts of the bible, but not because I don't like them - merely because they were written by men. I know that you said they were the servant's of God but I can't possibly confirm that whole heartedly other than blind faith - which is not in my personality to do. I am filled with curiosity, and must know these things for certain. I will always respect and abide by exactly what God has said and brought to us directly through his own hands. The 10 commandments in Christianity are completely applicable, they are wholly sensible, and are part of anyone's lifestyle.

Proof of God! It's just that savages are unable to grasp the whole message. Are you a savage?

To me, misunderstanding something does not make one a savage. It only takes time and patience for an enlightened man to convey the full message, and then there is no misunderstanding. Only your faith.

But Yahweh is the One True God? Yes? And He has a Son, Jesus? Yes?

To Jewish people Jesus wasn't the son of god, note the lesser G, he was a false prophet. Had he not said that he was the Son of God then his teachings would most likely have been wholly featured in the Torah, as such claims are considered idolatry, a major taboo in Judaism that goes against their scripture.

But if everyone agreed with you, they would be following your faith. Your faith is the Word of Man (i.e. you!). So you are following the Word of Man that you say you should not follow????

I suppose that is true, and I understand a few Free Mason's believe in the same vein as I. However my word is not "Don't believe in religion." I have no words. If someone were to ask me I'd say I believe in a god and that is it. As I understand it proof of god/God's existence is such that the world around us and it's creation is a magnificent thing that isn't probable to have existed by pure chance. It would have to have been created. That is a belief I share with Christianity. There's a difference between following the word of man and following your own words. I don't impress my beliefs upon others or ask that they follow it, it's not fair to do so. Some of you may say that I've done exactly that here, but in truth all I've done is explain my current position, I'm not asking or demanding any of you to change your beliefs at all - quite the opposite. I'm here to find out about your faith and how it came to be in your lives.

Don't bother with that, instead, tell me what you don't believe about God's Direct Words - The 10 Commandments.

1. Thou shallt have no other god's before me.

This is hard for me to word properly. I do believe in god, but not the faith's attached to him. I don't worship God, god or Allah. To me this commandment still applies to my life as in my eyes the god I believe in could very likely be the same God you all believe in.

2.Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

I would not make any idol's of heaven or hell, simply because I can't possibly know what they are like. A few envisage Heaven as pearly gates, sun rays and clouds, other's envisage it as likened unto the Garden of Eden, but these are all people's ideas, you can't know for sure. Even hell is spoke of as a place of eternal torment and damnation but are there walls? Is it an infinite place? What colour is the fire? Is there even any fire? Why should the torment be confined unto what hurts us in this plane of existence? I can't possibly make out an idea of these places and thus can not imagine them. I don't even know if the existence of your souls in either place has a shape.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

I would never do that.

4. Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

I don't work Sunday's. I widely recognise it as a day of rest.

5. Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

I love my parents regardless of the mistakes they've made in life, who would not?

6.Thou shalt not kill.

Living a military life it is hard to keep in line with this one, although I am an Engineer the machinery and weapons I work with ultimately wind up saving lives, even though their purpose may be death. If killing one man saves 10 other men, is it wrong? This is perhaps the only commandment I have difficulty with. In any other contextual lifestyle this is wholly applicable - to kill is a bad thing. Just in my field of work sometimes the lesser evil of killing can wind up saving people, doing a greater good. A lesser evil to achieve a greater good.

7.Neither shalt thou commit adultery.

I have seen what this has done in other's lives and it is a horrible thing to bear witness to, let alone experience yourself. To do this to another man or woman is a horrible thing indeed.

8. Neither shalt thou steal.

I believe that everything you have should have been earned. If you did not earn it through your own hard toil, blood, sweat and tears - then it has no value to you. It is easy to steal, and hard to earn something - As it should be.

9. Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

This is tantamount to lying, I would never incriminate anyone in a way that was not just. If someone did nothing wrong, they are innocent. If they are guilty of the crime, then they are guilty. It is simple.

10. Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.

The interpretation of this for me is that you should not envy your neighbour for what they have. They most likely earned every part of it through their own toils, and as such falls into the same category of explanation as commandment 8. They worked for what they have, so it is theirs. Likely you must work the same to earn the same, and thus because they have put more work into their lives, does not mean you should envy them because you did not.



In conclusion, I do not have any issue with the 10 commandments, even commandment 6 I understand completely and have no issue with, just my field of work and chosen lifestyle put me at odds with it at times. However I do not take death lightly, nor do I condone killing.

All of the commandments are within basic reason for any human being, with faith or without. They are nearly instilled in everyone regardless of whether they follow religion or not. There are a few exceptions who have been taught by example of depraved lives but then that is not their fault they did not have a good teacher.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Reverend Rodimer, thank you for taking the time to write an insightful reply, it is very much appreciated. I'm writing this off of my phone as we speak, so I can't use some of the forum features like the quote button. Still, bear with me:

You said in reply to me that if god did not want to torment me forever, he could just as easily find another way to deal with me (paraphrased) but if that is true then God can't be wholly good? To wish suffering on others is bad enough, but to damn them to eternal torment when he know's some will not follow him regardless seems a far throw from Good.

Omnibenevolence is not a Biblical concept. It is an invention of lying false-christian pastors who want to tell people happy lies so they will come back each week and give money.

I do believe in a God, and I suppose he does not have any defined rules because none have been established. This is in context to the bible which has stricture defining what you can and can not do. However that doesn't mean God has no play in my life. What I mean is that because I believe there is a greater power in the universe, it motivates me to do good and be the best that I can be.

Then don't call your imaginary "greater power" "God". That's the name of a specific deity, the Christian god is called "God". That's why it's capitalized; it's a proper noun.

Call the figment of your imagination something else. "Conscience", maybe. "Snuffleupagus" would work, as he's supposed to be imaginary.

I don't disagree with the bible . . . I wholeheartedly follow Jesus' writings, and I guess this sentiment arose when I took all of Jesus' sayings, just what he said, and then read them.

So when He said that the entirety of the [Old Testament] Law was still in effect, and that someone guilty in one point was guilty of all, you believe Him?

When He said not to fear those with the power to kill, but rather to fear God who has power to kill and cast into Hell, you believe Him?

Your words in other posts conflict with your assertion that you "wholeheartedly follow" Jesus' teachings.

And friend, Jesus has no writings. The earliest Gospel was written several decades after His Resurrection.

Jesus was just a man, with the true spirit of God. If he was not, then he would not have died.

So you also do not believe His teaching that He and God are one, and that He would (and did) return.

How does that work with "wholeheartedly following" His teachings?

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Well in all actuality I suppose the God depicted in the Torah is most similar unto my perceived God.

Are you a Jew? They are weird - they refuse to accept Christ as God and commit the final unforgivable sin of denying the Holy Spirit. Personally, I think it is because they can't get their thick heads around the simple concept of The Holy Trinity being Three-In-One.

However even there, the strictures of Judaism are binding much like other religions.

Are the strictures of man or Of God?

I suppose what I take to heart most from Judaism is YHWH, in that god is "one".

Yes, that's right, The Trinity is One... I said that.

If I look at most modern day religions and cut out the scripture placed by Men, all that is left is the word of God

God uses His Servants (mankind) to do His Most Perfect Writing - He very rarely writes himself (you must have relatives like that) He did write the Commandments and on the Wall of Nebuchadnezzar's palace though.

As a consequence, you know that the 10 Commandments (all 613 of them) are actually God's Word. You say it is important to follow God's and not men's Word. If you follow the 10 Commandments, then you obey God and thus worship Him: so what's this crap about rejecting the parts of the Bible that you don't like?

and there are surprising similarities in what he has directly said throughout multiple samples of religious cultures.

Proof of God! It's just that savages are unable to grasp the whole message. Are you a savage?

So the implication of YHWH to me is that no matter what religion you follow, God is God, universally the same just interpreted by different people at different times in different cultures.

But Yahweh is the One True God? Yes? And He has a Son, Jesus? Yes?

This is why I don't support a particular recognised faith of today, too much is muddied by the words of Men that the messages of God are often forgotten, belittled or manipulated in their interpretation amongst the myriad number of other articles of faith.

But if everyone agreed with you, they would be following your faith. Your faith is the Word of Man (i.e. you!). So you are following the Word of Man that you say you should not follow????

I shall have to work up a summary of God's direct teachings from multiple religions to compare them for scrutiny's sake.

Don't bother with that, instead, tell me what you don't believe about God's Direct Words - The 10 Commandments.

[Christianzionist]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Well in all actuality I suppose the God depicted in the Torah is most similar unto my perceived God. However even there, the strictures of Judaism are binding much like other religions.

I suppose what I take to heart most from Judaism is YHWH, in that god is "one". If I look at most modern day religions and cut out the scripture placed by Men, all that is left is the word of God and there are surprising similarities in what he has directly said throughout multiple samples of religious cultures. So the implication of YHWH to me is that no matter what religion you follow, God is God, universally the same just interpreted by different people at different times in different cultures. This is why I don't support a particular recognised faith of today, too much is muddied by the words of Men that the messages of God are often forgotten, belittled or manipulated in their interpretation amongst the myriad number of other articles of faith. I shall have to work up a summary of God's direct teachings from multiple religions to compare them for scrutiny's sake.

You shouldn't praise jooz so much, they are polytheists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekhinah#Sabbath_Bride

Clearly, God is three in one, like a six pack cut down the middle.

How is this difficult to understand?

[Didymus Much]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

...I believe in God and Jesus.
I do not believe in the words of Men...

By "the words of Men", I understand you mean the Bible.

If you discount the Bible, how do you even know of the existence of God and/or Jesus, let alone Their wills/wishes/requirements?

...Men are capable of being selfish and teaching what only THEY think SHOULD be taught...

Oooh, right back at ya.

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.



Another rugmunching atheist negress...there must be a factory somewhere.



Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Well that is rather odd, I'm rather certain it originally said welcome, not UNwelcome. Oh well, I guess I shall be on my way out then. I enjoyed the discussion while it lasted however, truly.

Still, I guess it is time to come clean. I'm actually black, a woman and a lesbian. And I am a Satanist too.



Regardless of such, those of you that took the time to write formal replies I do have the utmost respect of you, and my arguments made here were sincere and written without malice. As of such I have respect for you and your patience.

For the rest of you however, I think I'll be seeing you in hell, regardless of your beliefs.

A lying troll. I rest my case.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

It says "Unsaved Unwelcome" at the top of the screen.

It's common for Jesus-haters to read what they WANT to read.

Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

Well that is rather odd, I'm rather certain it originally said welcome, not UNwelcome. Oh well, I guess I shall be on my way out then. I enjoyed the discussion while it lasted however, truly.

Still, I guess it is time to come clean. I'm actually black, a woman and a lesbian. And I am a Satanist too.



Regardless of such, those of you that took the time to write formal replies I do have the utmost respect of you, and my arguments made here were sincere and written without malice. As of such I have respect for you and your patience.

For the rest of you however, I think I'll be seeing you in hell, regardless of your beliefs.

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

It says "Unsaved Unwelcome" at the top of the screen.

It's common for Jesus-haters to read what they WANT to read.

Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Scroll up to the top of your screen for the forums and read what it says in your header. That is the view of your church.

Yes, scroll up and read what it says at the very top of the page.

UNSAVED UNWELCOME

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

More to the point, I am not the kind of person to just be told things and accept them. I need to know why. Some things can't just be done that way. There has to be reasons.

And yes, I did just turn up here uninvited by any of you. None of you know me. But I am unwelcome? Scroll up to the top of your screen for the forums and read what it says in your header. That is the view of your church. What you have written is your personal view. If you don't like what I write, then don't read them.


Pastor Ed Lowman, thank you for replying honestly. I appreciate what you've said and it does connect with me, but just to clarify something - as I'm just as susceptible to misinterpretation - part of your faith is derived from fear of God? Again I'm not looking to incite argument with you - but the wording of what you wrote implies fear of God's wrath, which I can understand truth be told, but I don't understand how God can be considered wholly good when you can be afraid of him.