Re: Is it ONLY moral to rape your father if he's drunk?

Well, there are also verses in Leviticus condemning incest:

Leviticus Chapter 18:

6None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD. 7The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
8The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
9The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
10The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
11The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
12Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.
13Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.
14Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
15Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
16Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.
17Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
18Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.



It says nothing about the family member being drunk, however. Also, Leviticus comes after Genesis, so God could have changed the rules about incest. Daughters raping their fathers.. I'm not so sure that's OK with God..

Re: Is it ONLY moral to rape your father if he's drunk?

Well it seems God came up with an exception. I suppose that is why He is God; He's sees all these little "if" or "buts" that come up in life. It is seems we can paraphrase God here with;"If I kill of you your entire people, your wife and you are drunk then you are fair game for your daughters."

Re: Is it ONLY moral to rape your father if he's drunk?

Hmm that's true. But is there really a need for daughters to rape their fathers in this day and age? It seems that it's excusable only if it's in dire need; I don't think daughters today have a need to fornicate with their fathers.

Re: Is it ONLY moral to rape your father if he's drunk?

Perhaps the True History of Lot and his daughters is not often properly explained. Lot has had a hard day. He has Spoken with God, defended Angels from a screaming mob of homers, he has run uphill for a long way, he has seen his idiot wife turned into a block of salt and has had his house demolished. He had then found shelter in a cave and all he wanted was a drink to relax.

We see from the graph that as Job drank he at first was consumed by his own thoughts, leading him out of holiness but then as he had a few more pints, that fluency of thought that overtakes us all in such circumstances comes into its own and the problems of the world seem solvable.

So, once again in a position to be able to formulate a conversation with The Almighty, Lot clears his throat and starts on what is wrong with the world.

It is at this point that his daughters come in. I dare say they have had a few pints. Now, a woman is empty headed at the best of times, but a woman with alcohol fueled thoughts is dangerous.

But not to a man filled with holiness.

The idiot daughters do what they do whilst Lot is completely unaware of anything going on at all and he is beyond human thought; he is conversing with The Lord. It is no more than a fly buzzing around whilst you are deep in prayer; it is not a distraction.

You will note that Lot never actually passes the point of "maximum holiness". I hope this explains everything.

Re: Is it ONLY moral to rape your father if he's drunk?

Reality can be complex, so you have to work with general rules and specific rules to cover all possible situations. These were all anticipated by God. He designed us after all.

The question is: should a family without a mother go for the general rule or for the specific rule, provided that the situation bears many similarities?

In this particular case, incest was obviously moral: God was very fond of Lot and his daughters and He only allowed them to escape unharmed.

Re: Is it ONLY moral to rape your father if he's drunk?

It was to preserve the father's seed. The mechanisms of human procreation haven't changed since God designed us, so it's still applicable.

Re: Is it ONLY moral to rape your father if he's drunk?

Yes, it's a matter of circumstance I suppose. At that specific time, it was not an act of sin because they were spared from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. The thing I'm really not sure about, is whether holy people in todays day and age can commit the same act. What if a True Christian™ were to do something like this, when it was not even necessary? Would it be excused because they're on the same level of holiness as Lot and his daughters?

Re: Is it ONLY moral to rape your father if he's drunk?

Incest and rape are both sins. Levicitus 18:6-18 condemns incest (I won't post those passages here because they've already been posted). It was acceptable in that cirumstance because it occurred before the time of Moses and the book of Leviticus. In the time of Genesis, incest and rape were allowed. But now, we must follow the rules of the Bible that condemn rape and incest.

If that happened now, I'm sure that the daughters would have been damned to Hell.

Re: Is it ONLY moral to rape your father if he's drunk?

I do not wish to dwell on the rumors about Lot et al., but I will say that many alcoholics fall asleep fully dressed, even on top of the covers.

We do not know that any formal "uncovering" took place. Lot's robes or whathaveyou may have already been in disaray, and we may be talking about an instance of partial exposure rather than true nakedness.

Re: Is it ONLY moral to rape your father if he's drunk?

Thanks for that illuminating graph, Brother Bathfire.