[GOD=life]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

An alternative outcome in your example could be that the necklace is found and it turns that it was simply misplaced, so both were telling the truth that they hadn't stolen it.

True, multiple possibilities would be likely, they could even have stolen it together. That's why you have to frisk them to see what the lump is. Maybe it'll be a necklace, maybe something else, but you won't find out without getting down to it.

So that's why a Christian won't tell you "hey just believe without proof", no a Christian will say "read the 1611 KJV Bible and find out for yourself". It is our experience that if you read the entire KJV 1611 Bible, then you will begin to understand how the Bible should be regarded in terms of an absolute moral guideline. But you should read the WHOLE Bible, not just the happy-happy-hug-hug parts.

If you want to read a story about a muslim converted to Christianity, look at this inspirational story:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp

In the opinion of Muslims, that's a pretty good reason for believing that it is the Word of God, the Truth, etc.

Just because some claims are made in a book does not automatically mean they are true. Otherwise anyone could just make up stories and claim they are absolute truth. That would be ridiculous.

Ok, and I suppose you think Jesus would have worn trousers do you?

Jesus Christ is beyond reproach, so we do not concern ourselves with His clothing. If He were to wear improper clothing, then it is because He had a reason or wanted to make some kind of point. It is our task as members of His flock to find out what He is trying to teach us.

And they would say, "if America converts to a Muslim nation, then why would any harm have to come to them?"

Because God gave peace-loving America more bombs.

Let me get this straight, you believe women should stay at home, cook, clean and obey their husbands, but you want one particular woman elected PRESIDENT?

You have to see Sarah Palin like this: she has to solve the mess that Hillary Clinton created when she was (vacariously) President and later on when she tried to run for President without her husband (didn't turn out well). So now there are lots of women who think that a woman MUST become President. The women in America are jittery and restless.

But Sarah Palin is not just ANY woman, she is a Christian woman. When Sarah Palin is elected President, she will immediately introduce Biblical law and once that is secured, she will make the big announcement that she will step down as President and let her husband, Todd Palin, take over her job as President.

This will have a very good effect on the women in America because Sarah Palin is a big role model for them. So once they see how a Christian woman acts, they will feel more comfortable doing the jobs the BIble said they should do.

Only God could have taught of something that brilliant.

[noncognitivist]

Re: Noncognitivist's off-topic banter moved to its own thread

And we're sure you'll be quite at home in here with yourself.

Oh you're leaving? Ok, goodbye :-)

[Lost Sheep McUinnean]

Re: Noncognitivist's off-topic banter moved to its own thread

Oh you're leaving? Ok, goodbye :-)

Yes. We have more important things to attend to.
Keep working on the irony. If it's still too difficult at first, I suggest starting off with some tinny, then brassy first, before taking the leap to aluminny in readiness for the big I.

See ye later.

[noncognitivist]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

True, multiple possibilities would be likely, they could even have stolen it together. That's why you have to frisk them to see what the lump is. Maybe it'll be a necklace, maybe something else, but you won't find out without getting down to it.

Precisely. Except in my outcome, if the necklace was found somewhere completely different, where it had been misplaced, there would be no lump.

So that's why a Christian won't tell you "hey just believe without proof", no a Christian will say "read the 1611 KJV Bible and find out for yourself". It is our experience that if you read the entire KJV 1611 Bible, then you will begin to understand how the Bible should be regarded in terms of an absolute moral guideline. But you should read the WHOLE Bible, not just the happy-happy-hug-hug parts.

I have my own opinions of the reliability of the bible as a source of information, let's just leave it at that.

If you want to read a story about a muslim converted to Christianity, look at this inspirational story:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp

Oh what a lovely, inspirational story. I'm sure Muslims could come up with an equally lovely one about a Muslim who converts to Christianity.

Just because some claims are made in a book does not automatically mean they are true. Otherwise anyone could just make up stories and claim they are absolute truth. That would be ridiculous.

That's exactly my opinion of the Bible. Yes, anyone can just make up stories and claim they are absolute truth. And yes, people do.

Jesus Christ is beyond reproach, so we do not concern ourselves with His clothing.

Nice get-out clause. What about all His comtemporaries though?

If He were to wear improper clothing, then it is because He had a reason or wanted to make some kind of point.

Which point? That you should all wear long, loose clothing? Men in hot countries today still wear the sort of clothing that I assume Jesus would have worn because of the temperature and it has therefore become part of their culture. People in cold countries on the other hand wrap up warmly, so that they don't freeze to death. It's logical.

Because God gave peace-loving America more bombs.

A contradiction if ever I saw one.

But Sarah Palin is not just ANY woman, she is a Christian woman. When Sarah Palin is elected President, she will immediately introduce Biblical law and once that is secured, she will make the big announcement that she will step down as President and let her husband, Todd Palin, take over her job as President.

I had a feeling you would try to get around it like that. It's rather naive to think that a women would get a good education, go into politics and have the necessary intelligence and ability to make her way to the top, all the while intending to do so just to hand power over willingly to a man. However religious she may be, I can't quite see her slaving away in the kitchen like a good little wife from the 1950s, having her husband's dinner ready for him when he comes home. If, in the extreme case, she really does believe all of that "women should stay at home" stuff, it's probably just because it won't affect her - she'll be able to afford to pay for a cook, a cleaner, etc and she'll just spend her days with her feet up.
What you don't seem to realise is that women can think for themselves and they make up half of the population. They fought for the vote, they fought for equality, and they will continue fighting for as long as men try to oppress them.[/QUOTE]

[noncognitivist]

Re: Noncognitivist's off-topic banter moved to its own thread

Yes. We have more important things to attend to.
Keep working on the irony. If it's still too difficult at first, I suggest starting off with some tinny, then brassy first, before taking the leap to aluminny in readiness for the big I.

See ye later.

Now you're seeing irony where it wasn't even intended :-D. I assumed you wouldn't post on here anymore, as you told me I'd be on my own, so I just took the opportunity to say goodbye ;-).
All the best with your important things!

[GOD=life]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

I have my own opinions of the reliability of the bible as a source of information, let's just leave it at that.

As True Christians, we don't let our personal opinions get in the way of facts. Otherwise we'd all end up with completely different points of view. Some people would "feel" that apples fall to the ground, others would "feel" they fall to the sky. We all live in the same reality, so we deal with the same facts. Not opinions.

I'm sure Muslims could come up with an equally lovely one about a Muslim who converts to Christianity.

It would be excellent if mooslims start coming with conversions to Christianity themselves.

Yes, anyone can just make up stories and claim they are absolute truth.

Which is why we don't just trust anyone but God. And we don't follow any book, but the book that God wrote (or dictated like a boss to a secretary).

Nice get-out clause. What about all His comtemporaries though?

Admit it, as a woman, you are more inclined to want to talk about the clothes that men wear than what they have to say Would you like us to find out whether their clothes matched their shoes or something? Or where they got their mani-pedi?

A contradiction if ever I saw one.

Paradox, not contradiction. It's like learning martial arts: you learn to fight so that you don't have to fight. Same with bombs: if everyone knows you have them, you won't have to use them. The concept of mutual deterrence has been well-known for dozens of years now.

It's rather naive to think that a women would get a good education, go into politics and have the necessary intelligence and ability to make her way to the top...

Sarah Palin obviously does NOT have good education OR the necessary intelligence to STAY President. That's why she's perfect.

However religious she may be, I can't quite see her slaving away in the kitchen like a good little wife from the 1950s, having her husband's dinner ready for him when he comes home.

Then God will punish her; if she's Christian, she'll do precisely that. Just because YOU cannot imagine what it's like to be a Christian woman does not mean they don't exist. Besides, it's a tough job being President, so Todd Palin would certainly want some nice food on the table when he comes home.

What you don't seem to realise is that women can think for themselves and they make up half of the population.

It's irrelevant what our personal opinions might be, because the Bible is abundantly clear about the role of women in society. A Christian woman gives a Christian example. You respect it. So why do you want to force Sarah Palin to act against her beliefs?

If you're denying Sarah Palin the right to be Christian, then maybe YOU are the one who's oppressing women. Think about it.

They fought for the vote, they fought for equality, and they will continue fighting for as long as men try to oppress them.

[/QUOTE]
And that's EXACTLY why Sarah Palin needs to lead the fight to remove women's right to vote. You can't have men taking those rights way, it'll make the women in America feel upset. A woman has to take women's right away. And that woman is Sarah Palin.

[noncognitivist]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

As True Christians, we don't let our personal opinions get in the way of facts. Otherwise we'd all end up with completely different points of view. Some people would "feel" that apples fall to the ground, others would "feel" they fall to the sky. We all live in the same reality, so we deal with the same facts. Not opinions.

Ok, maybe in an attempt not to offend or insult, I haven't been expressing myself clearly enough. When I use the word opinion, I'm talking about something that I believe as a result of examining available evidence from a variety of sources and reflecting on whether those sources are likely to be accurate. You're absolutely right that we all live in the same reality, and in theory, yes, we all deal with the same facts. However, different people have different opinions, or beliefs, or convictions of what those facts are. There are many reasons for this, for example not everyone interprets the same sources in the same way, and not everyone has the same sources available to them. People also differ in the amount of evidence that they personally require before they can believe that something is a fact. Our heated discussion should be indication enough that people have different ideas of what is fact, and what is not.

If you look back in history at the last few hundred years, you will see that people's perceptions of what is "fact" have continually changed as new discoveries about the world we live in have been made. For me, a "fact" is much more reliable if it has been debated, discussed, examined from all angles and challenged, than if it has just been passed down the generations unquestioned as something that is supposedly set in stone and beyond doubt.

It would be excellent if mooslims start coming with conversions to Christianity themselves.

Haha my mistake, I obviously meant it the other way around :-).

Which is why we don't just trust anyone but God. And we don't follow any book, but the book that God wrote (or dictated like a boss to a secretary).

I'm starting to feel that maybe I really should expand on my opinions (beliefs/convictions...) of the Bible, despite the risk of offending...

Admit it, as a woman, you are more inclined to want to talk about the clothes that men wear than what they have to say Would you like us to find out whether their clothes matched their shoes or something? Or where they got their mani-pedi?

That shows just how little you know about women and how unqualified you are to decide what's best for them (whatever the Bible may say). And wait a minute, if I remember rightly YOU were the one placing such a great importance on clothing! :-D

Paradox, not contradiction. It's like learning martial arts: you learn to fight so that you don't have to fight. Same with bombs: if everyone knows you have them, you won't have to use them. The concept of mutual deterrence has been well-known for dozens of years now.

Yes I know it perfectly well, but I'm not so sure that it works. One country stockpiles weapons to defend against attacks from other countries, while all the while declaring those other countries part of an "axis of evil" and talking about "wiping them off the map" unless they "convert". The other countries then see (and hear) what's going on, go on the defensive, and start stockpiling weapons themselves. Hostility builds up between the countries and eventually it leads to acts of terrorism or war.
Your martial arts example is a great illustration of your point, except for the fact that martial arts aren't generally used for attacking and people don't feel threatened when they see (if it is even in any way visible) that another person has a black belt in karate, for example. The ownership of guns on the other hand, is a good example of what I mean - the more acceptable it is to have guns, and the more people carry them around, the more likely it is that people will get shot. It may be an advantage to the individual to be able to carry a gun around, but not to society as a whole.

Sarah Palin obviously does NOT have good education OR the necessary intelligence to STAY President. That's why she's perfect.

I agree that she doesn't give the impression of being particularly intelligent, but that can only work against her. People are less likely to vote for her as president and more likely to ridicule her ideas of what's right for women. I can only welcome her presidency though, as it's bound to lead to a lot more atheists, as women who are still undecided in their beliefs turn away from her in disgust.

Just because YOU cannot imagine what it's like to be a Christian woman does not mean they don't exist.

Oh I'm sure they do, but fortunately the number of them who are still happy to stay at home playing the perfect housewife is decreasing constantly. Again, an extremist attitude about women can only backfire, as more and more women will prefer to turn away from religion rather than being told what to do.

A Christian woman gives a Christian example. You respect it. So why do you want to force Sarah Palin to act against her beliefs?

If you're denying Sarah Palin the right to be Christian, then maybe YOU are the one who's oppressing women. Think about it.

Sarah Palin can do whatever she wants, I just very much doubt that she will live up to that example by doing all the cooking and cleaning. Rich people pay others to work for them, fact. I don't mean that she'll necessarily go against her Christian principles, just that she'll justify it by saying she's busy doing God's work by paying important visits to hospitals and schools, or standing next to her husband looking angelic.

And that's EXACTLY why Sarah Palin needs to lead the fight to remove women's right to vote. You can't have men taking those rights way, it'll make the women in America feel upset. A woman has to take women's right away. And that woman is Sarah Palin.

Again, that can only backfire. There were women at the start of the 20th century who fought against the vote, often due to traditonal ideas of Christian values, but they didn't stand a chance when faced with the pace of change. Now that women have tasted freedom and realised (whatever certain men may still believe) that they can think for themselves and make their own way in the world, Mrs Palin has even less chance of success.

[GOD=life]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

When I use the word opinion, I'm talking about something that I believe as a result of examining available evidence from a variety of sources and reflecting on whether those sources are likely to be accurate.

According to dictionary.com, the definition of "opinion" is: judgment or belief not founded on certainty or proof. That's why I say we use facts.

However, different people have different opinions, or beliefs, or convictions of what those facts are.

It is a fact that your statement is true. But when you say "there is NO God" and God says "uhm, I'm right here.. I sent my only begotten son to die for you guys, remember..!?", then it is a good bet that God is right and you're not. You should see it this way: whenever you say something about the Bible or God, you're not actually you vs. a Christian, it's you vs. God. God is your partner in debate. As Christians, we can only in a way "channel" God by pointing out His Word. And, as a result, Christians are sometimes pejoratively called book salesmen.

But think about it this way: if someone says "noncognivist does NOT exist" and you're jumping up and down flapping your arms screaming "I exist, I exist!", whom should we believe.... ?

People also differ in the amount of evidence that they personally require before they can believe that something is a fact.

As simple human beings, NO ONE is capable of understanding everything. You have to be omniscient to say, conclusively, that there is no God. Since God is omniscient, we say: okay, let God give us the info.

For me, a "fact" is much more reliable if it has been debated, discussed, examined from all angles and challenged...

So then it's a fact that God exists. After all, the vast majority of Americans believe God exists and the topic has been debated, discussed and examined ad nauseam.

Haha my mistake, I obviously meant it the other way around.

You meant to do it and yet you didn't. That's God playing a little joke on you for our mutual enjoyment. God is watching this discussion. Prayerfully, God is pleased with the work of His humble servant.

Hostility builds up between the countries and eventually it leads to acts of terrorism or war.

I see your point, but the problem is that in a situation of mutual distrust, you have to assume that the other country will stockpile weapons anyway. They may say they don't for strategic reasons but do it anyway. International politics and diplomacy isn't trivial.

... and people don't feel threatened when they see

Exactly! People can see and recognize a gun and instantly know what they're up against. In the case of a ninja, they might not even see it coming until it's too late. Ninjas are trained to covertly sneak up on their targets and kill them silently. You can find more about the history of ninjas here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja

Sarah Palin can do whatever she wants, I just very much doubt that she will live up to that example by doing all the cooking and cleaning.

Yes, she can. But God would punish her in terrible ways, maybe disfigure her face or make her speak with a lisp. As a Christian, she knows that God in His wisdom can be what we as humans would mistake for cruel and sadistic.

There were women at the start of the 20th century who fought against the vote...

Yes, but NONE of them were President. That's the difference. And quite a big one at that.

Now that women have tasted freedom and realised...

And that's EXACTLY why they must get a taste of a woman being President. Now I can't tell you the details of God plan, I just think it's likely she will give up the presidency. You might call that an opinion or educated guess then. Another option would be that God would let Sarah Palin fail so that the women in America see that not all jobs should be done by women. In either case, Sarah Palin, as a role model to all the women in America, stands to make a great contribution to the Christian position of women in America.

Many women in America will experience an "aha-erlebnis" about what it means to be a woman in America.

[noncognitivist]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

I understand what you're saying, but all of it only has meaning from a Christian standpoint. I think it's therefore time that I explained my atheist standpoint to you. There didn't seem to be much point earlier when I was receiving not much more than continued pronouncements from all sides that I would burn in Hell, but we now seem to have reached a stage where we can at least have a mature discussion. So here it is:

As a child I went to church every week with my family and attended Sunday school. I had never heard the word "atheist" and it never occurred to me to doubt in the existence of God any more than I would have doubted in the existence of a member of my own family. However, I was a very inquisitive child, and there were many things that I wanted to know about the Bible and about God. When I questioned various aspects of Christianity that I found puzzling, I was told "God works in mysterious ways" or "we have no right to question God". That wasn't enough for me, what I wanted was facts! And certainties! Adults were supposed to know everything, so how could they not answer my questions in a way that would make sense to me! I didn't want to "just believe"!

When I was 12 and moved up to secondary school I became best friends with a girl in my class. When I mentioned God to her one day, she told me she was an atheist. I asked her what an atheist is, and said that she doesn't believe in God. I couldn't understand what she was saying. How could someone not believe in God?? I argued with her and told her that everyone believes in God, they can't all be mistaken can they? I refused to listen to what she was saying because I found it too absurd.

For me, it was very much like a situation a few years earlier when a child in the playground had told me Santa doesn't exist. I had laughed at him and told him that he had no idea what he was talking about, that everyone knows Santa insists. My parents had told me about him, and they wouldn't lie to me! Parents never lie and they know everything! If there was no Santa, who puts the presents in the stockings? Who eats the mince pie that I leave out and drinks the milk? I argued that I had read about Santa in books, seen him in films! All of the other children believed in him, and they couldn't all be mistaken could they?? In fact, one friend of mine had even heard Santa's footsteps in the middle of the night and seen his shadow as he put the presents in her stocking. All evidence!

After a while doubts started to surface. I had always wondered how Santa manages to deliver so many presents in one night, how he gets into houses that have no chimneys, how his reindeer are able to fly, how the presents all fit in his sleigh. Whenever I had asked such questions, I'd always been told "Santa is magic", "if you question Santa you won't get any presents", etc. – answers that had satisfied me when I was a very young child, but which were no longer enough by the time I reached the age of 8 or so. Gradually I started to think, maybe not all of the books and films about Santa are telling the truth. Maybe my friend had been mistaken about seeing Santa in the night. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Then suddenly it hit me – Santa really didn't exist! Instead of upsetting me, the revelation actually made everything clear in my mind. Finally the things I hadn't understood about Santa were irrelevant, and when I examined the topic from my new standpoint, the things I hadn't understood when told that Santa didn't exist could all be explained.

And that was exactly what happened to me a few weeks after I was told that God doesn't exist. I had an atheist epiphany! When I cast off my fears and thought about God and the Bible from that angle, everything made sense! I realised that belief in God is essentially based on the following paradox:
"The Bible says that God exists. God says in the Bible that everything in the Bible is true. Therefore God exists and everything in the Bible is true."

But what if not everything in the Bible is true, I asked myself. That would mean that God's existence would be called into question. And if God doesn't exist, then there's no super-human authority to tell us that everything in the Bible is true. Only humans, and humans can make mistakes, misunderstand facts, embellish facts, invent facts. No-one is perfect.

I wouldn't rule out the idea of God's existence 100%, but only to the extent that I wouldn't rule out the existence of a small teapot orbiting the sun (perhaps you're familiar with "Russell's teapot?") The fact that something can't be disproved doesn't make its existence and non-existence equally probable. And if the number of people who believe in something increases while the amount of evidence stays the same, that also doesn't make that thing any more true or even more probable.

If we leave aside subjective arguments, such as "I feel that God is all around me" and "I don't need evidence, I just know He exists", then the burden of proof falls to the Bible. But just how reliable is it as a source of information? First we have to ask ourselves, who wrote it and when? Were they objective observers or did they have their own agenda? How likely is it that they were mistaken? Etc, etc.

The Bible is full of inconsistencies. For example, Mathew gives 28 generations between David and Joseph, while for Luke, 41 generations separated them. Moreover, if Jesus really was the result of a virgin birth, then it is irrelevant who Joseph's ancestors were, as it would automatically mean that Jesus was not descended from David.

Another important aspect to consider is that the Bible was copied out in its entirety many times before the invention of printing, and it would have been very easy for mistakes to occur or well-meaning scribes to alter the story to make it more inspirational. Add to that the possibility of translation errors. When studying the ancient texts, historians have shown for example, that the Hebrew word for young woman ("almah") was mistranslated into Greek as "panthenos", which means "virgin". Bearing in mind that in Old English the word "virgin" simply meant "maiden", this is an easy mistake to make.

There were other points that I wanted to make (in fact, I could go on all day), but I've just noticed with astonishment how much I've written, so I'll "just" send this for now :-).

[Bible Student]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

I understand what you're saying, but all of it only has meaning from a Christian standpoint. I think it's therefore time that I explained my atheist standpoint to you. There didn't seem to be much point earlier when I was receiving not much more than continued pronouncements from all sides that I would burn in Hell, but we now seem to have reached a stage where we can at least have a mature discussion. So here it is:

As a child I went to church every week with my family and attended Sunday school. I had never heard the word "atheist" and it never occurred to me to doubt in the existence of God any more than I would have doubted in the existence of a member of my own family. However, I was a very inquisitive child, and there were many things that I wanted to know about the Bible and about God. When I questioned various aspects of Christianity that I found puzzling, I was told "God works in mysterious ways" or "we have no right to question God". That wasn't enough for me, what I wanted was facts! And certainties! Adults were supposed to know everything, so how could they not answer my questions in a way that would make sense to me! I didn't want to "just believe"!

When I was 12 and moved up to secondary school I became best friends with a girl in my class. When I mentioned God to her one day, she told me she was an atheist. I asked her what an atheist is, and said that she doesn't believe in God. I couldn't understand what she was saying. How could someone not believe in God?? I argued with her and told her that everyone believes in God, they can't all be mistaken can they? I refused to listen to what she was saying because I found it too absurd.

For me, it was very much like a situation a few years earlier when a child in the playground had told me Santa doesn't exist. I had laughed at him and told him that he had no idea what he was talking about, that everyone knows Santa insists. My parents had told me about him, and they wouldn't lie to me! Parents never lie and they know everything! If there was no Santa, who puts the presents in the stockings? Who eats the mince pie that I leave out and drinks the milk? I argued that I had read about Santa in books, seen him in films! All of the other children believed in him, and they couldn't all be mistaken could they?? In fact, one friend of mine had even heard Santa's footsteps in the middle of the night and seen his shadow as he put the presents in her stocking. All evidence!

After a while doubts started to surface. I had always wondered how Santa manages to deliver so many presents in one night, how he gets into houses that have no chimneys, how his reindeer are able to fly, how the presents all fit in his sleigh. Whenever I had asked such questions, I'd always been told "Santa is magic", "if you question Santa you won't get any presents", etc. – answers that had satisfied me when I was a very young child, but which were no longer enough by the time I reached the age of 8 or so. Gradually I started to think, maybe not all of the books and films about Santa are telling the truth. Maybe my friend had been mistaken about seeing Santa in the night. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Then suddenly it hit me – Santa really didn't exist! Instead of upsetting me, the revelation actually made everything clear in my mind. Finally the things I hadn't understood about Santa were irrelevant, and when I examined the topic from my new standpoint, the things I hadn't understood when told that Santa didn't exist could all be explained.

And that was exactly what happened to me a few weeks after I was told that God doesn't exist. I had an atheist epiphany! When I cast off my fears and thought about God and the Bible from that angle, everything made sense! I realised that belief in God is essentially based on the following paradox:
"The Bible says that God exists. God says in the Bible that everything in the Bible is true. Therefore God exists and everything in the Bible is true."

But what if not everything in the Bible is true, I asked myself. That would mean that God's existence would be called into question. And if God doesn't exist, then there's no super-human authority to tell us that everything in the Bible is true. Only humans, and humans can make mistakes, misunderstand facts, embellish facts, invent facts. No-one is perfect.

I wouldn't rule out the idea of God's existence 100%, but only to the extent that I wouldn't rule out the existence of a small teapot orbiting the sun (perhaps you're familiar with "Russell's teapot?") The fact that something can't be disproved doesn't make its existence and non-existence equally probable. And if the number of people who believe in something increases while the amount of evidence stays the same, that also doesn't make that thing any more true or even more probable.

If we leave aside subjective arguments, such as "I feel that God is all around me" and "I don't need evidence, I just know He exists", then the burden of proof falls to the Bible. But just how reliable is it as a source of information? First we have to ask ourselves, who wrote it and when? Were they objective observers or did they have their own agenda? How likely is it that they were mistaken? Etc, etc.

The Bible is full of inconsistencies. For example, Mathew gives 28 generations between David and Joseph, while for Luke, 41 generations separated them. Moreover, if Jesus really was the result of a virgin birth, then it is irrelevant who Joseph's ancestors were, as it would automatically mean that Jesus was not descended from David.

Another important aspect to consider is that the Bible was copied out in its entirety many times before the invention of printing, and it would have been very easy for mistakes to occur or well-meaning scribes to alter the story to make it more inspirational. Add to that the possibility of translation errors. When studying the ancient texts, historians have shown for example, that the Hebrew word for young woman ("almah") was mistranslated into Greek as "panthenos", which means "virgin". Bearing in mind that in Old English the word "virgin" simply meant "maiden", this is an easy mistake to make.

There were other points that I wanted to make (in fact, I could go on all day), but I've just noticed with astonishment how much I've written, so I'll "just" send this for now :-).

So what you are saying is that as an adult you continue to think like a child?

As to the last paragraph, what does Old English have to do with the Jacobean/Elizabethan English of the 1611 King James Bible? You haven't read many threads in this forum have you? Just a couple of days ago I squashed that ridiculous idea that the 1611 King James Bible was written in Old English replete with examples.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

I think it's therefore time that I explained my atheist standpoint to you.

Which part of "Unsaved Unwelcome" did you not get? And we are very aware of the atheist standpoint promoting anal sex, child rape and killing innocent Christians.

[noncognitivist]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

And we are very aware of the atheist standpoint promoting anal sex, child rape and killing innocent Christians.

You've demonstrated perfectly without any help from me that you're not aware of the atheist standpoint. :-)

[noncognitivist]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

So what you are saying is that as an adult you continue to think like a child?

Not at all. We atheists don't usually refer to ourselves as "children of..." anything/anyone.

As to the last paragraph, what does Old English have to do with the Jacobean/Elizabethan English of the 1611 King James Bible? You haven't read many threads in this forum have you? Just a couple of days ago I squashed that ridiculous idea that the 1611 King James Bible was written in Old English replete with examples.

You seem to have misunderstood me. I was simply using the example of the English word "virgin" to illustrate that in old texts it can easily be misinterpreted. I could equally have taken the German language to illustrate the traditional proximity of the concepts "virgin" and "maiden": The Germans call a young woman a "junge Frau" and a virgin a "Jungfrau".



If those were the only points you could find to criticise, I must have done an even better job of presenting my standpoint that I thought. :-)

[Cursed]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

You've demonstrated perfectly without any help from me that you're not aware of the atheist standpoint. :-)

No, you've demonstrated perfectly with some help from Cranky Old Man that you're not aware of the true atheist standpoint, and that you've been suckered by the public relations front.

Many simple-minded people are deceived by their atheist overlords. The Holy Bible warns the wise of their wicked ways.

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. ~2 John 1:7

[Bible Student]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

Originally Posted by Bible Student
So what you are saying is that as an adult you continue to think like a child?

Not at all. We atheists don't usually refer to ourselves as "children of..." anything/anyone.

What kind of malarkey is that? Unfortunately in my work I am forced to have with atheists [they are forever trying to convert me to their religion]. Most of them tell me they have parents. Some even talk about when they were children. Children of whom, do you suppose?

Originally Posted by Bible Student
As to the last paragraph, what does Old English have to do with the Jacobean/Elizabethan English of the 1611 King James Bible? You haven't read many threads in this forum have you? Just a couple of days ago I squashed that ridiculous idea that the 1611 King James Bible was written in Old English replete with examples.

You seem to have misunderstood me. I was simply using the example of the English word "virgin" to illustrate that in old texts it can easily be misinterpreted. I could equally have taken the German language to illustrate the traditional proximity of the concepts "virgin" and "maiden": The Germans call a young woman a "junge Frau" and a virgin a "Jungfrau".

Maiden in German can be either Maedchen or Jungfrau. Not much help there.

But my point was that you thought the 1611 King James Bible was written in Old English and now you are trying to weasel out of that obvious prevarication.

Since you seem to think you are a know it all, how about answering a question. How many virgins are there in the Virgin Islands?

If those were the only points you could find to criticise, I must have done an even better job of presenting my standpoint that I thought. :-)

They weren't the only ones. But your other "errors" (to be polite) were addressed by others. We try not to stutter here.