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During a discussion with an unsaved heathen where I was reviewing the proof that gays choose to be sodomites, Brother Hutchins reminded me of the apparent conflict with my logical proof where God appears to punish people for the sins of relatives. (See the referenced thread for the full discussion.)
While I was writing my response, I thought it might make a good stand-alone thread. As such, here is my logic proving that gays choose their deathstyle and an analysis of the "sins of the father" issue. I request that our Pastors let me know if I have this right!
Here is my proof that gays CHOOSE to be sodomites:
1. God sends unrepentant sinners to Hell
2. To be a sodomite is to sin
3. Ergo: Unrepentant sodomites will be sent to Hell by God
4. God is perfect
5. A perfect being would never send someone to hell for something that that person had no control over.
6. Ergo: God doesn't send people to Hell for things that they have no choice in.
Combining #s 3 and 6 we get:
7. Unrepentant sodomites will be sent to Hell by God
8. God doesn't send people to Hell for things that they have no choice in.
9. Ergo: Homo's MUST choose to to be gay.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum
Brother Hutchins wisely reminded me of some scripture that MAY APPEAR to conflict with this logic to the unsaved:
I want to thank him for bringing up this advanced theological concept. (I tried to keep it simple for the heathen's sake.) Brother Hutchins is 100% right. Just look at the concept of "original sin" to see an example of something that ON THE SURFACE appears to be God punishing people who had no choice in the matter. For you heathens, the concept of original sin is that because Eve ate the apple, all humans are born into a state of sin because of what Eve did. If one does not ask for forgiveness for being born a lowly human, you will go to Hell.
However, what we all know is that God gives each of us a glorious gift: The internal knowledge of God's glory. Because of this, we all have the ability to kneel before our universal Master and ask forgiveness for being born in this lowly state. (Incidentally, this is how we know that all atheists are liars. We ALL have the gift of God's love in our hearts. Atheists KNOW God is real, but hate God for bad things that they have experienced and so lie about not being able to feel God.)
As for Brother Hutchins' citation toward the "Sins of the Father" concept, he is 100% correct to point it out. However, he forgot that he was dealing with an unsaved heathen that may not be as well versed in advanced theology as he is. Below, I reference some relevant scriptural references that indicate that God SEEMS to punish people for sins that their relatives committed. HOWEVER, there is a way that people have the free will not to be subjugated to this, as we will discuss later on.
Verses that indicate SOME SORT of punishment for sins of relatives:
This SEEMS to violate the "God wouldn't send someone to Hell if that person had no control over the sin" concept, doesn't it? Well, there are TWO problems with that. FIRST, note that these are all from the Old Testament, before God gave us the gift of Hell. Back then, these just meant that if you were in a sinful family, God would make life a little rougher on you than other families. This was his incentive for families to stay on the straight and narrow. That said, these can NOT be used to support the idea of God sending someone to Hell for sins that they had no control over, because there WAS NO HELL THEN.
Next, God clarifies in BOTH the Old and New Testaments that the sins of the Father will NOT be visited upon the sons:
Clearly, God has clarified that he does not kill people for sins of their relatives. Even in the New Testament he clarifies that we can't consider original sin without ALSO recognizing that Jesus will save us all if we just ask.
Finally, note that there is a very simple way to use your God-given free will to avoid even RISKING having a tougher life due to being in a sinful family: disown them as Jesus taught us to do:
In conclusion, in the NEW Testament (the only time when Hell exists), God never says he will send anyone to Hell for sins of his family AND he clarifies in both the New and Old Testaments that he doesn't do that AND when in doubt, just leave your family (as Jesus tells us to do) to avoid inheriting sin.
Our all-Loving God created the eternal torture of Hell, but only for those who refuse to follow these simple instructions.
What could be clearer?
While I was writing my response, I thought it might make a good stand-alone thread. As such, here is my logic proving that gays choose their deathstyle and an analysis of the "sins of the father" issue. I request that our Pastors let me know if I have this right!
Here is my proof that gays CHOOSE to be sodomites:
1. God sends unrepentant sinners to Hell
2. To be a sodomite is to sin
3. Ergo: Unrepentant sodomites will be sent to Hell by God
4. God is perfect
5. A perfect being would never send someone to hell for something that that person had no control over.
6. Ergo: God doesn't send people to Hell for things that they have no choice in.
Combining #s 3 and 6 we get:
7. Unrepentant sodomites will be sent to Hell by God
8. God doesn't send people to Hell for things that they have no choice in.
9. Ergo: Homo's MUST choose to to be gay.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum
Brother Hutchins wisely reminded me of some scripture that MAY APPEAR to conflict with this logic to the unsaved:
Originally posted by James Hutchins
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However, what we all know is that God gives each of us a glorious gift: The internal knowledge of God's glory. Because of this, we all have the ability to kneel before our universal Master and ask forgiveness for being born in this lowly state. (Incidentally, this is how we know that all atheists are liars. We ALL have the gift of God's love in our hearts. Atheists KNOW God is real, but hate God for bad things that they have experienced and so lie about not being able to feel God.)
As for Brother Hutchins' citation toward the "Sins of the Father" concept, he is 100% correct to point it out. However, he forgot that he was dealing with an unsaved heathen that may not be as well versed in advanced theology as he is. Below, I reference some relevant scriptural references that indicate that God SEEMS to punish people for sins that their relatives committed. HOWEVER, there is a way that people have the free will not to be subjugated to this, as we will discuss later on.
Verses that indicate SOME SORT of punishment for sins of relatives:
Deuteronomy 5:9
"Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,"
Exodus 34:6-7
"6And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation."
Exodus 20:5
"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"
"Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,"
Exodus 34:6-7
"6And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation."
Exodus 20:5
"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"
Next, God clarifies in BOTH the Old and New Testaments that the sins of the Father will NOT be visited upon the sons:
OLD TESTAMENT
Deuteronomy 24:16
"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
Ezekiel 18:20
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."
NEW TESTAMENT
1 Corinthians 15:22
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
Deuteronomy 24:16
"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
Ezekiel 18:20
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."
NEW TESTAMENT
1 Corinthians 15:22
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
Finally, note that there is a very simple way to use your God-given free will to avoid even RISKING having a tougher life due to being in a sinful family: disown them as Jesus taught us to do:
Luke 14:26
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."
Our all-Loving God created the eternal torture of Hell, but only for those who refuse to follow these simple instructions.
What could be clearer?
I only wish I could make tortillas! As you know, my name was changed and the avatar was put there by one of your mods. It's fine by me as I love all my Mexican friends, even the ones I haven't met yet!
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