[Samuel Coleridge]

Re: Rev. Jim educates a misguided False Christian on the Bible

Levi, I completely agree with once saved always saved. However, I also believe the devil is a master deceiver. If you believe yourself to be saved, and in fact you are not truly saved, as you said, then the devil has nothing to worry about with you. You can quote all the scripture you want, but God knows your heart. I spoke with Jim about what love is and how it looks and defining features. Honestly, I have seen very little displayed here on this site. More people jump to calling people 'unsaved trash' than listening to anything anyone new has to say.

I have quoted scripture to back up everything I have said. If you dont want to listen or turn a deaf ear to my information, I suppose that is your choice. But I would examine what I was telling you if I were you, rather than just write it off as gibberish. That is an arrogant thing to do. And again, love is not arrogant!

You say my 1 John argument is 'flimsy'? Uh, ok. I guess you are calling the Bible a 'flimsy' book then. Anyhow, Im done arguing. I have said what I have come here to say. I have demonstrated my peace and my rebuke alike. And again, I do not need, nor does anyone need, THIS CHURCHES little trademarked 'true christian' stamp of approval to know that I am a true child of God. I know my life and what Ive been through. I know the personal experiences I have had. And you know me not. And if you know me not, then you may judge me not. I pray that you all would come to realize what love really is. And what has been done for you. Not so you would be so blazingly arrogant about it. Humble Yourselves! I pray so hard that God will yet open your eyes to His unyielding mercy, and His UNCONDITIONAL love. He is the beginning and the end! Praise be to God for that. God bless.

Indeed there is much truth in what you say against these misguided fellow believers. They preach that they are the "called". That they are forever Saved no matter what they do. Apparently, you do as well.

I knew you had more in common with them than you thought.

When you are done being overly emotional about the subject, I strongly suggest what sort your priorities are in a Savior and what you believe in and don't. Go through the Bible with two highlighters of different colors. Mark all the parts that make sense to you with one color. Mark the ones that you disagree with in another!

Now, you have your own Personal Savior!

You realize I could make just as long of an argument of why the halfwit Levi is wrong in favor of works? I would, but he would just post back an equally long wall of text telling me why I was wrong.

Read my posts sometime before I get thrown in quarantine again. I'm a sweet and loving Christian socialist.

Your true friend in Christ,
Sam

[GOD=life]

Re: Rev. Jim educates a misguided False Christian on the Bible

I really don't see where all this animosity comes from. Rev. Jim and others have been very patient in explaining Christianity to a misguided individual and yet he insists that we are all wrong and he alone is right.

The first thing you have to accept as a Christian is that God wrote the Bible, not you. So many Christians have the attitude "but it's not convenient, so I'll just ignore it" and are convinced they they truly believe in God. In reality, the Devil pulled a fast one on them.

See my signature for a scenario that will happen with many false Christians.

Please reconsider your stance. There is a LOT at stake for you. Also for the people you preach false Christianity to. Wouldn't you rather be a FULL Christian, knowing that you WILL go to Heaven?

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: Rev. Jim educates a misguided False Christian on the Bible

You say my 1 John argument is 'flimsy'?

The first chapter of I John is about what we are like before we get saved. The second chapter is about the urgency of becoming saved. The third chapter is about what we are like after we get saved. Finally, the fourth and fifth chapters explain how to become saved.

When you cited verses from the first chapter of I John to bolster an argument that saved Christians continue to sin after they get saved, you took those verses completely out of context. That's why Brother Levi said that your I John argument was "flimsy".

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Follow Him]

Re: Rev. Jim educates a misguided False Christian on the Bible

Thank you Sam. And thank you Pastor Reuben. I appreciate your words truly. I ask that you would continue to pray for me, as will I for you. I think we need more of this in life. I also would like to respond to your comments, however I don't have a Bible in front of me at the moment. I am at work right now, but when I get home later, I will read the epistles of John in successive order, and post back here. But again, I really appreciate your attitudes towards me and towards wanting to further educate me on the Bible for things I may not see with my own eyes. I would also like to express to you that this is exactly what I was trying to do for you as well. God bless.

[InvisiblePinkUnicorn]

Re: Rev. Jim educates a misguided False Christian on the Bible

And I will be the first to admit I dont understand the entire Bible.

Psssst.... I am not favored around here, but here is a dirty littel secret: Nobody understands the bible. EVERYONE has to interpret it since it contains over 600 contradictions. (Here is a sampling.)

Now, as all of these good people know, I look at the ENTIRE CONTENTS of this book (not just the bits and pieces my church tried to convince me were the 'important parts') and *I* conclude that such a book, written by desert-dwelling men who would have thought of the wheelbarrow as a stunning engineering acheivement and who didn't know to keep their food away from their toilets, and where the EARLIEST parts of the book that discuss jesus were written about 100 years after he died, is simply a book of bronze-age mythology.

BUT, if you are going to close your eyes and jump in with both feet and believe that 1) there is a god, 2) that of all the thousands upon thousands of god throughout history, the 'real' one is is the mono-theistic god of the abrahamic religions, and 3) that it is the god espoused by the semi-historical figure known as Jesus, then what is the best way to read these desert-scribblings?



These folks at LBC are taking the single most reasonable approach: Anything NOT labeled as a metaphore is literal.

This still leaves tons of contradictions, as you two have talked about and demonstrated, but at least it is a SANE way of interpreting this. YOUR way "I see something I don't feel like god would say so I will go with what my heart tells me" means that you WANT to believe in the god your parents raised you with (or whomever brought you to jebus) you just don't want to have to deal with all the "yucky stuff" that makes you uncomfortabel or goes against what someone TOLD you the Bible was all about.

Your "God" killed millions of what any sane person today would classify as innocent people. He instructed soliders to rip babies from their mothers' wombs and "dash them upon rocks" and, get this, god says that people who do such things should be "happy!" As you consider that and all the other horrible things that god is supposed to have done, monitor your brain. Is it, even now, searching for a rationalization? "There MUST be a way I can take God's order to rip babies out of their mother's wombs and dash them upon the rocks as 'love.' How can I spin this?" Also ask yourself this, "How is it that I can worship a god that did such things a long time ago while denying that he could do them now?" What makes NOW so special? There is one of two possibilities: 1) there is no god and this book is a batch up made-up fairy tales, OR 2) it is true, god is NOT all-loving, and I am going to hell along with people like you. I chose the former due to this and a TON of other reasons to believe that there is no god. LBS has chosen the latter. People like YOU can't choose and just sit on teh post trying to create a whole new god to worship.



Do you really think that your god left the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT MESSAGE FOR MAN as a Jumble Puzzle? Do you seriously think that god created the single worst concept in the history of everything (the eternal burning fire and torture of hell) and then gave us a Blue's Clues puzzle to see if we can figure out how to avoid it? You seriously believe that those that think they have it, believe in their heart of hearts that they have figured out the "Da Vinci Code To End All Da Vinci Codes" but who simply chose the wrong "interpretation" are going to burn in hell forever? Then what if it is YOU that has it wrong? As you have said, Satan is the great deceiver. How will you tell the difference between your "gut" and the "right" interpretation of the Bible? If you say "Well, *I* will know" then you are the single most arrogant person I have met, and I am friends with a TON of theists and atheists alike.

I dont understand how it perfectly works! I do believe it does, however.

And there you have the concept of blind faith. "I don't know about the details of the Bible, but I believe that it is the perfect word of God."

It has opened my eyes to how strong my Faith really is.

Here is what the sane world hears: "I so desperately want to feel like I am loved by a magic sky daddy that I will jump on board the most popular myth in my local community and 'believe' it. I want to feel like I will live forever so I cling to anything that gives me hope. Chirstianity is what was at hand so I went with that." You want more examples of your arrogance? Answer this: "Wouldn't you have been a muslim if you were bron in an Islamic country?" Deep down inside you said "No!" didn't you? That is laughably conceited of you.

You asked how do I know the verses arent meant to be taken literally? I couldnt prove to you that they arent, but neither could you prove to me that they are.

Here is where the LBC has it right: THE METAPHORES ARE LABELED! What is so hard about that? Let me guess, even when Jesus says "The following is not a metaphore" and then says something that you DON'T believe, you will decide that it MUST be a metaphore? Right? Don't believe me? Try this on for size:

In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:
For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

Let me guess, you think this was a metaphore. Right? Everywhere else when Jesus is using parables, it says "And jesus told of the parable of X." Everywhere else when jesus says "truely" (translated from "verily" meaning "seriously...I am not kidding here...") you believe that he speaks the truth. Why don't you think THIS is true then? Maybe this is a one-time mistake, then?

Oh wait:

Jesus says something similar in Matthew 21:21:

I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

Hrm.... OK Maybe TWO mislabeled parables? Wait....

In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it.

This is getting awkward. I guess Jesus just plain lied. Unless you think that all prayers are granted (Jesus didn't say he would "answer" prayers so don't give me that "Sometimes the answer is 'no' or 'wait'" BS! Read the scripture. He promises to GRANT prayers SIX time in the Bible) to every true believer who prays for them?

I can only follow what God has laid on my heart. I can only believe what God has opened my eyes to see. I was once without Christ, and I have since found Him.

What if it is Satan who has put these beliefs in your heart? Oh that's right... YOU would know while OTHERS would be deceived. Got it.

I know that God is a vengeful and wrathful God, but I truly believe that God longs for all of us to turn to Him and surrender all to Him.

1) Is vengefull and wrathfull your definition of LOVE? If not, then you were wrong to say god is all-loving. If so, you have a screwed up definition of love and you were WRONG for criticizing pastor Zeke for his tough love.


2) How can an omnipotent god "long" for anything? He knew before he created the universe taht he would end up creatign billions of people that would choose poorly and go to hell. Why? Why did he do that? He COUDL have created a universe where peopel had free will but the only people he created would be people who would choose to do right and end up in heaven...or he could have just not created hell...or he could simply expose himself so there would be no question... yet you still believe that god knowingly created BILLIONS of people he KNEW would got to hell.... What an absolute monster this god of yours is. It is disgusting.

Think about that for a moment...what it means to surrender all to Him...amazing to think about.

I have. the language you tehists use is always one of a malicious tyrant demanding worship upon therat of eternal torture. Is THAT love?

Ok...but to believe what you are saying is to say that the Bible contradicts itself. Because in 1 John 1:8 it says...again...

'If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.'

So if what you say is true, then I guess the Bible simply contradicts itself...in the short span of 3 chapters...unless....John is talking about living in constant, habitual sin...never changing, never conforming to the heart of God. Just the same person you have always been except for the fact that you said a prayer once asking Jesus into your heart. To believe what you say to be true, to me, is mind-boggling.

The Bible contains over 600 self-contradictions. Has your priest/pastor not told you this? Or have you swallowed what OTHER people say about the bible and not read it for yourself. Have you never simply used Google?


So, speaking as an atheist, I can say i think you are all insane. However, if we grant the premise that teh bible is teh word of god, then LBC is the most sane and you are just a child looking for love in a cold universe.

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: Rev. Jim educates a misguided False Christian on the Bible

I don't have a Bible in front of me at the moment.

Yes you do.

[InvisiblePinkUnicorn]

Re: Rev. Jim educates a misguided False Christian on the Bible

I don't have a Bible in front of me at the moment.

Or perhaps this one? It has a lot of information your pastor won't point out!