[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Yes, but you are not sufficiently spiritually high to be trusted with such an awesome power.
I bet you get paint everywhere. Are you in an institution? Do you also do cutting out paper?

Ha Ha yes that could be true. I mostly do digital art these days. On the computer. So I have 2 to 3 programs opened for painting at one time.
Then for the bible stuff I have about 2 or 3 programs.
Short attention span I guess. Jumping from one to another.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I am going to reply to this misleading post simply because it is so misleading.

You seem to think that "return to dust" means "turning into dust". Unless you are a foreigner, there is no excuse for this misunderstanding.

"and unto dust shalt thou return." simply says that we will be buried in the earth from which we were made, i.e. dust.

There are no contradictions in the Bible.

Yes we are make of the dust of the ground, and we return to dust when we die.

Genesis 2:7 (King James Version)

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
We are made from the dust of the ground, and we became a living soul. We were not given a soul we are a soul.

So when we die that is it. Nothing lives on.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 (King James Version)

19For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

This is telling us and it agrees with the scriptures I mentioned earlier about the condition of the dead. That man and animals are the same in death. Non existence.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Revelation 20: 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Do you remember when I said the bible interprets itself.
Well ...this is one of those times. The bible tells us that the lake of fire is the second death. And the bible also told us what death is. ( no thinking no knowledge, we are the same as the animals.) There is no soul that lives on. The only chance we have after we die, is that if God remembers us and he resurrects us. If he doesn't remember us , then we stay dead. ( no life) (The second death)

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Yes we are make of the dust of the ground, and we return to dust when we die.

Genesis 2:7 (King James Version)

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
We are made from the dust of the ground, and we became a living soul. We were not given a soul we are a soul.

Our body is dust, our soul was breathed into us. Two separate things.

So when we die that is it. Nothing lives on.

Again?

Acts 24:15 and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

John 5:28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice

John 5:29 and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 (King James Version)

19For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

Death comes upon all God's creatures; in this manner, we are all alike. However, Solomon makes a distinction just a few verses later, asking, "Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?" (Ecclesiastes 3: 21)

This verse simply states that like animals, humans die. It doesn't say that it is final.

The reader interested in the context of a verse will quickly note the deathblow to the argument you make in Ecclesiastes 3:21. How on earth the you can rank these verses under “Yes, death is final” is beyond my limited brainpower. Solomon makes the opposite argument actually. He argues that both man and beast die, no difference here. But what is not seen is the difference: a beast has no eternal soul, his spirit dies with him. But the soul of man goes upward to meet his Maker. Because everyone will have to give account, Ecclesiastes 12:14. And it is clear it does not happen in this life, but it will happen says Solomon, when the soul of man goes upward.

This is telling us and it agrees with the scriptures I mentioned earlier about the condition of the dead. That man and animals are the same in death. Non existence.

No, wrong again.

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Matthew 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

If Angels can be destroyed, why didn't God destroy Satan and the fallen angels? When in the Bible is an angel destroyed?

The reason that God did not destroy Satan and his angels, was because he was the ruler of the earth, and God had appointed him until the end of the rest day. Also Satan raised the issue, that men will only stay loyal to God for what they can get out of him. So Satan said that if a man is in fear of losing his life he will abandon God. ( that is the account at Job.) Even some angels followed Satan, this shows this is also an issue with the angels.
Armageddon is the battle between God and Satan where he is held in bondage for the 1,000 years.


Revelation 20:1-3 (King James Version)

Revelation 20

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


Armageddon is the battle with Satan where he is bound for a thousand years.


Revelation 20:7-10 (King James Version)

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The bible told us the lake of fire, was the second death. Which means totally destroyed , no longer in existence.
So God is going to kill Satan and his followers, the angels and humans. So that they no longer exists

And torment that is mentioned.Can be compared to the words we use today.
If a man has died and he has a son that is causing problems, and brings a bad name on his family. People say today, 'his father would roll over in his grave if he knew what his son is doing." We take that to mean that the father is not alive, but if he was alive he would be tormented, by the actions of his son.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Our body is dust, our soul was breathed into us. Two separate things.

Ezekiel 18:4 (King James Version)

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
The soul is not something other than the body. If the body dies there is nothing that continues on.


The Jewish Publication Society of America issued a new translation of the Torah, or first five books of the Bible, the editor-in-chief, H.*M. Orlinsky of Hebrew Union College, stated that the word “soul” had been virtually eliminated from this translation because, “the Hebrew word in question here is ‘Nefesh.’” He added: “Other translators have interpreted it to mean ‘soul,’ which is completely inaccurate. The Bible does not say we have a soul. ‘Nefesh’ is the person himself, his need for food, the very blood in his veins, his being.”—The New York Times, October 12, 1962.

The difficulty lies in the fact that the meanings popularly attached to the English word “soul” stem primarily, not from the Hebrew or Christian Greek Scriptures, but from ancient Greek philosophy, actually pagan religious thought. Greek philosopher Plato, for example, quotes Socrates as saying: “The soul, .*.*. if it departs pure, dragging with it nothing of the body, .*.*. goes away into that which is like itself, into the invisible, divine, immortal, and wise, and when it arrives there it is happy, freed from error and folly and fear .*.*. and all the other human ills, and .*.*. lives in truth through all after time with the gods.”—Phaedo, 80, D, E; 81, A.


The teaching that the soul lives on, comes from pagan worship, and has infiltrated Christianity.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

And torment that is mentioned.Can be compared to the words we use today.
If a man has died and he has a son that is causing problems, and brings a bad name on his family. People say today, 'his father would roll over in his grave if he knew what his son is doing." We take that to mean that the father is not alive, but if he was alive he would be tormented, by the actions of his son.

A preposterous interpretation that you put forth just because you dislike what the Bible says. It's a pity.

[crown33]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

It's truly a myth that religion and logic does not go together. It goes together because the Bible has been confirmed by archeology many times in the past.

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

It's truly a myth that religion and logic does not go together. It goes together because the Bible has been confirmed by archeology many times in the past.

A lot of myths of some basis of truth. That doesn't mean I'm going to accept the legend of Troy or something. There's plenty of mistakes in the Bible.

Historical Errors in the Bible

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

In Genesis 1:1 in the beginning God created the heavens and earth.

That includes the earth and everything else including the sun, moon and stars.

Many consider the word “day” used in Genesis chapter 1 to mean 24 hours. However, in Genesis 1:5 God himself is said to divide day into a smaller period of time, calling just the light portion “day.” In Genesis 2:4 all the creative periods are called one “day”: “This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day [all six creative periods] that God made earth and heaven.”

So does that mean all the creative days, are to fit in just one day? If you take this literally, then you have a contradiction, and the six creative days were not days at all but just a part of one day. What the bible is telling us that these we ages or time periods when things were done.

Now for the light.

Genesis 1:14 (King James Version)

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:


First 'Day'
“‘Let light come to be.’ Then there came to be light. And God began calling the light Day, but the darkness he called Night. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a first day.”—Genesis 1:3,*5.
Of course the sun and moon were in outer space long before this first 'day,' but their light did not reach the surface of the earth for an earthly observer to see. Now, light came to be visible on earth on this first “day,” and the rotating earth began to have alternating days and nights.
The light came in a gradual process, extending over a long period of time, not instantaneously as when you turn on an electric light bulb. The Genesis rendering by translator J. W. Watts reflects this when it says: “And gradually light came into existence.” (A Distinctive Translation of Genesis) This light was from the sun, but the sun itself could not be seen through the overcast. Hence, the light that reached earth was “light diffused,” as indicated by a comment about verse*3 in Rotherham’s Emphasised Bible.—See footnote b for verse*14. This is like a overcast day we get on the earth today.

Now on the Fourth 'Day'
Genesis 1:14-16 (King James Version)

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

The Hebrew word there used for “light” is ’ohr, meaning light in a general sense. But on the fourth 'day,' the Hebrew word changes to ma‧’ohr′, which means the source of the light. Rotherham, in a footnote on “Luminaries” in the Emphasised Bible, says: “In ver. 3, ’ôr [’ohr], light diffused.” Then he goes on to show that the Hebrew word ma‧’ohr′ in verse 14 means something “affording light.” On the first “day” diffused light evidently penetrated the swaddling bands, but the sources of that light could not have been seen by an earthly observer because of the cloud layers still enveloping the earth. Now, on this fourth 'day,' things changed.

Now, had there been an earthly observer, he would be able to discern the sun, moon and stars, which would serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years. (Genesis 1:14) The moon would indicate the passing of lunar months, and the sun the passing of solar years. The seasons that now “came to be” on this fourth 'day' would no doubt have been much milder than they became later on.—Genesis 1:15; 8:20-22.

So God did not create the sun or moon twice, or did he create the sun after the earth. I was created when he created the heavens and the earth.

I'll get to the Hell, question.

That's a pretty amazing rewrite of Scripture there, dear friend. When Genesis 1:16 says that God made the lights, it doesn't mean that they had been made a while back and that only at the later time did they become visible from the earth. Rather, "and God made" means "and God made." Any other reading is just wishful thinking.

Please explain how the verb in the original Hebrew (וַיַּעַשׂ, which is a finite form of עָשָׂה) can mean passively allowing something that was there earlier to mainifest itself. (By saying this, I am not detracting from the Divine preservation of the King James Bible; I am simply producing additional evidence for my point.)

Dear friend, it appears to me that you are the sort of "Christian" who decides a priori what to believe and then adapts Scripture to fit. Instead, you should start with God's Word and then adapt your beliefs to fit.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

A preposterous interpretation that you put forth just because you dislike what the Bible says. It's a pity.

Why would God torture, people forever? Is that rational?
The bible does not teach that. It is religions that teach that.
He will get rid of people that are against him, but he does not torture them.
And the goal is that God want's perfect people, to fill the earth just like he said , with Adam and Eve. Nothing has changed. It is going to happen and just like he said with Adam and Eve. So at the end of God's rest day Jesus will hand the earth and mankind back to God in the condition he said it would be. And in the same time frame. ( that is what the 1,000 years are for.) At the end of that , the bible says new scrolls will be opened, so a whole new purpose will be told to man. And where is the limit in that?

Man was created for the earth, this is not just a testing ground, because Satan was in the heavens and failed, so did some angels.

This is rational, this is what we see, and this has always been the purpose for man. It's just that most don't want it. Just like in Noah's time, 8 people out of about 1 million survived.

Any way , if any one wants a specific question answered, I will try to do that, but , if not , I'll slip away.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

That's a pretty amazing rewrite of Scripture there, dear friend. When Genesis 1:16 says that God made the lights, it doesn't mean that they had been made a while back and that only at the later time did they become visible from the earth. Rather, "and God made" means "and God made." Any other reading is just wishful thinking.

Well I gave the explanation for that, in my post.
If I create a robot, and then made it jump up and down. I can say I made it do that, but it doesn't mean I recreated it. God made the light more visible by clearing the atmosphere, so he made the sun and moon and stars visible from earth.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

A lot of myths of some basis of truth. That doesn't mean I'm going to accept the legend of Troy or something. There's plenty of mistakes in the Bible.

Historical Errors in the Bible

I went through with you many questions you asked and I answered them.
I have been through these types of questions , with people who want to try anything, to prove the bible wrong.
The reality is, how many questions answered, does it take you to realize that 'evolution' is just a myth. Do you still believe in 'evolution'?
If you do, then is it rational for me to go to the trouble of answering these questions , will it get you anywhere, in your thinking?
And there are no errors in the bible. Not everything is totally answered, but then it doesn't need to be.
I have come across people that have lists of supposed problems with the bible and have answered all so far. My confidence level is very high when it comes to things like this. These come from people who have not done their homework, and spread them around the internet.

I mean the scientists believe in 'evolution' and they no answers for anything.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Well I gave the explanation for that, in my post.
If I create a robot, and then made it jump up and down. I can say I made it do that, but it doesn't mean I recreated it. God made the light more visible by clearing the atmosphere, so he made the sun and moon and stars visible from earth.

You've explained nothing. That verse does not say that God made the light more visible by clearing the atmosphere. It says that He made the lights.

Let's continue with your analogy of the robot. If on the fourth day you made a pre-existing robot jump up and down, would you say, "And on the fourth day I made the robot"? I'm sure we can agree that that would be inexcusably sloppy writing.

What's more, the next verse says that He set them in the firmament of the heaven. Why would He have had to do that if they'd been there all along?

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Dear friend, it appears to me that you are the sort of "Christian" who decides a priori what to believe and then adapts Scripture to fit. Instead, you should start with God's Word and then adapt your beliefs to fit.

If I can't back it with scriptures that don't contradict, each other, then don't listen to me. God meant the bible to be understood. And all the scriptures are inspired.
It is a contradiction to say on one hand the dead have no knowledge , or work or any thoughts , or memory and on the other hand say, he lives on. Being tortured some place. The bible said we are the same as the animals in death. So are the animals being tortured, some place after they died?