[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

The reader interested in the context of a verse will quickly note the deathblow to the argument the author of the SAB makes in verse 21. How on earth the author of the SAB can ranks these verses under “Yes, death is final” is beyond my limited brainpower. Solomon makes the opposite argument actually. He argues that both man and beast die, no difference here. But what is not seen is the difference: a beast has no eternal soul, his spirit dies with him. But the soul of man goes upward to meet his Maker. Because everyone will have to give account, chapter 12:14. And it is clear it does not happen in this life, but it will happen says Solomon, when the soul of man goes upward.

The bible very plain in this that when the animals die man has the same death.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 (King James Version)

19For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

Ezekiel 18:4 (King James Version)

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

This is the death the bible teaches us. There is no difference from us to the animals in death. And the the life ( soul) also is dead.

There is nothing that lives on after death. these scriptures are clear in that. To say anything else is in contradiction of this.
Now if God wants to resurrect us that is something different

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

The bible very plain in this that when the animals die man has the same death.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 (King James Version)

19For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

Two verses later.

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

There is nothing that lives on after death. these scriptures are clear in that. To say anything else is in contradiction of this.
Now if God wants to resurrect us that is something different

You sound like the Sadducees. They didn't believe in life after death either. If there is no spiritual life after death, then what was Jesus talking about?

Luke 20:7 But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

[Tea_Party_Minister]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

The bible very plain in this that when the animals die man has the same death.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 (King James Version)

19For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

Ezekiel 18:4 (King James Version)

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

This is the death the bible teaches us. There is no difference from us to the animals in death. And the the life ( soul) also is dead.

There is nothing that lives on after death. these scriptures are clear in that. To say anything else is in contradiction of this.
Now if God wants to resurrect us that is something different

You obviously cannot read and understand this simple scripture. This is why reading the Bible (KJV) is left for scholarly True Christians.

This bible verse means that if you are a sinner, you will go to Hell and that no one will enter heaven without God. There is no point in quoting scripture if you do not understand what you are quoting. Stop crying and start praying.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Two verses later.

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?



You sound like the Sadducees. They didn't believe in life after death either. If there is no spiritual life after death, then what was Jesus talking about?

Luke 20:7 But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

Ecclesiastes 3:19-21 (King James Version)

19For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

20All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

21Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?


There is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.
Who is there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward to the earth?” (Because of the inheritance of sin and death from Adam, humans all die and return to the dust, as animals do. But does each human have a spirit that goes on living as an intelligent personality after it ceases to function in the body? No; verse 19 answers that humans and beasts “all have but one spirit.” Based merely on human observation, no one can authoritatively answer the question raised in verse 21 regarding the spirit. That is why it is in the form of a question.
But God’s Word answers that there is nothing that humans have as a result of birth that gives them superiority over beasts when they die. However, because of God’s merciful provision through Christ, the prospect of living forever has been opened up to humans who exercise faith, but not to animals. For many of mankind, that will be made possible by resurrection, when active life-force from God will resurrect them .)

Psalm 37:9-11 (King James Version)

9For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

10For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

11But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.


Also many humans are resurrected to the earth. So there is nothing that goes to heaven for those ones.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

This bible verse means that if you are a sinner, you will go to Hell and that no one will enter heaven without God. There is no point in quoting scripture if you do not understand what you are quoting. Stop crying and start praying.

The bible says you return to the dust of the ground , the same as the animals.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Also many humans are resurrected to the earth. So there is nothing that goes to heaven for those ones.

You're talking about before Jesus died and opened the gates to Paradise. Before then the spirits were in a sort of jail, a "limbo of the fathers". Jesus opened the gates to heaven, starting with the thief he promised would be with Him in paradise that day.

[Pastor William Nathaniel Sampson]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

The bible says you return to the dust of the ground , the same as the animals.

The Bible says Jesus went and preached to the souls in their prison of those who died after His death.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

You're talking about before Jesus died and opened the gates to Paradise. Before then the spirits were in a sort of jail, a "limbo of the fathers". Jesus opened the gates to heaven, starting with the thief he promised would be with Him in paradise that day.

What 'limbo of fathers'?

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

The Bible says Jesus went and preached to the souls in their prison of those who died after His death.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Actually it doesn't say they died after his death. It just says he preached to the spirits in prison. And the word 'spirit' is used not souls.

1 Peter 3:15-20 (King James Version)

15But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

16Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

17For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


Luke 8:30-34 (King James Version)

30And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.

31And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.

Into the 'deep' means the abyss ( Satan and his demons know that they are going to be put in prison bonds)

2 Peter 2:4 (King James Version)

4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

In this case the word hell is used, for a prison, and it is in darkness ( spiritual darkness)

Jude 1: 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


The the spirits here are the Demons.

[Pastor William Nathaniel Sampson]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Actually it doesn't say they died after his death. It just says he preached to the spirits in prison. And the word 'spirit' is used not souls.

It says they died before Jesus. The way Jesus was able to minister to them was His own temporary death.

Reading comprehension is really not your strong suit.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

This is saying Jesus died for us ( the unjust ) then it says he ( Jesus ) is put to death, but rises as a spirit , because of that he also went and talked to the spirits ( demons) .

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

This is saying Jesus died for us ( the unjust ) then it says he ( Jesus ) is put to death, but rises as a spirit , because of that he also went and talked to the spirits ( demons) .

Jesus preaching to demons makes no sense in the context of 1 Peter 3. He brings up the days of Noah, and how God waited patiently for them to listen, and how they did not manage to get saved on Noah's Ark, so are now trapped. He then goes on to say that we can avoid this fate if we get baptized and believe.

Adding demons in there makes no sense whatsoever.

Now, can I say. According to the Bible, we the righteous dead are resurrected, it will not be in the old bodies, but new bodies. Now, if there is no soul, and its a new body, how can it be said to be the same person that is rising?

1 Corinthians 15: 42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Jesus preaching to demons makes no sense in the context of 1 Peter 3. He brings up the days of Noah, and how God waited patiently for them to listen, and how they did not manage to get saved on Noah's Ark, so are now trapped. He then goes on to say that we can avoid this fate if we get baptized and believe.

Adding demons in there makes no sense whatsoever.

Now, can I say. According to the Bible, we the righteous dead are resurrected, it will not be in the old bodies, but new bodies. Now, if there is no soul, and its a new body, how can it be said to be the same person that is rising?

1 Corinthians 15: 42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

“Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.” Noah’s faith, expressed in the constructing of the ark, resulted in preservation for himself and his family. In a corresponding way, those who, on the basis of faith in the resurrected Christ, dedicate themselves to God, get baptized in symbol of that faith, and continue to do God’s will are saved and are granted a good conscience by God.—3:4, 7, 10-12,*18.
What this is saying is that in Noahs time he put faith in God that made possible the preservation for himself and his family.
So now our faith in what Jesus did, can save our lives.
The reason Jesus ministered( declared) to Satan and his demons, was because , Jesus bought back the perfect life, that Adam lost. It wasn't up until this time that , that Satan was proved a liar. So from now on the future for Satan and his demons, was the abyssing ( prison) and then the final destruction of death, to those ones.
Before Jesus died, their( demons) future was uncertain.

Now when Jesus was resurrected from the dead.

John 20:11-18 (King James Version)

11But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,

12And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

13And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my LORD, and I know not where they have laid him.

14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.

15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

16Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

So even when Jesus was resurrected he materialized to Mary, but she did not recognize him.
This saying that a new body will be given to the ones that are resurrected to the earth. It is not the old body, as it is gone. But your personality, and thinking will be the same. If you think about it the resurrection to earth is a direct creation of the individuals. The bible says God even saw the embryo of a prson. So he knows the make up of that person.
But as for spiritual ones ( 144,000 the seal number) that go to heaven, to rule the earth with Jesus, will become spirit creatures.

Most of the bible is written for the ones that go to heaven , even though by far, most will be resurrected to the earth. But all follow Jesus in the same manner. So the information is the same for both groups.

[CWCSonichu]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I whole-heartedly agree with this post. Jesus suffered and died for our sins, and we repay him with "rational thinking"? In order for us to get into heaven, we need to have no doubt and serve the lord blindly, always.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I whole-heartedly agree with this post. Jesus suffered and died for our sins, and we repay him with "rational thinking"? In order for us to get into heaven, we need to have no doubt and serve the lord blindly, always.

Rational thinking is the only way to prove that God deserves our trust. So our faith is not blind, it is based on knowledge, and reason. Our following there after is based on experience of many that came before us. That is why the bible tells us about these ones. It's about what happens if you do good and what happen if we don't. So to follow Jesus is not blindly following him but is based on experience and the trust, that he wants the best for us.
It is based on rational thinking.