[John Bois Ward]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Sorry, no such luck. I will never reject science. I just don't automatically believe anything that sounds remotely scientific. I know it may seem so to you uneducated folk, but math and science aren't just a bunch of random numbers and equations thrown together in an attempt to look smart. Believe it or not, those numbers and equations are derived from observations, and they actually mean something! If you could give me an equation that proves the existence of god and explain to me how you derived it, I would open-minded. That "proof" wasn't science. It was a random equation thrown together in an attempt to appeal to us scientists.

Really? Mathematic equations are nothing but tautologies based purely on analytical a priori knowledge – the predicate is already contained in the subject and is independent of experience. While, your sciences are nothing but assumptions based on limited experiences. And when it comes to a science like physics, the world around us is ultimately reduced to poetry – wave-particle duality, multiverse, Schrodinger’s cat, entanglement, etc. So professor why don't you take at look at your own assumptions before attacking the faith of others.

[Hieronymous Bosch]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Oh, yes, utterly convincing. Oh, so convincing, a badly made video with text flashing one person's opinion. If you accept such as proof, then give me a bit of time and I'll show you 'proof' that the president's wife is actually a baboon. (It's already been proven many a time that he himself bears a close resemblance to our apelike ancestors).

Well, Sister. Just because Michelle looks a little like a Baboon doesn't mean that she is one. After all Darwin looked like an albino Gorilla, and had about the same amount of brains, but that doesn't mean that Darwin was one... does it?

[Hieronymous Bosch]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Sorry, Lizzy. Seems to me like you are the uneducated one here. According to you matter can not be created or destroyed. Well here is a little math that disproves that: E = MC^2.
You don't need to reject science. There is 'good' science, provable science out there. Rejecting God is not science. You cannot prove that there is no God no matter how hard you try. If you don't know why ask me and I will give you philosophic reasoning from atheists like yourself that will prove why you cannot disprove God.
Believing that evilution is a fact is not science either. Macro evilution has never, and never well be (my opinion), proven in a laboratory. All species are very well defined and all very much different from each other. If evilution were true these species, it seems to me, would be blurred. Until scientists create life under laboratory conditions the prime premise of evilution is very much in question. That is that life can come from non-life. Until this is proven the entire theory of evilution is not even a good theory. Anyone that believes otherwise is not a true scientist. It is unfortunate that most scientists are also atheists. Even worse they are atheists that are so unsure of their position that they are afraid to question any part of it lest they come face to face with an angry God. That is why in the early 19th century Science bought into the 'rags to rats' theory. When Pastuer disproved this, and all other spontaneous life theorys the atheists were overjoyed that Darwin gave them something they can hang onto.
Actually, it wouldn't bother me too much if scientists would confine their sloppy science just to evilution. Now, they have let it boil over into other, more important, areas. In the 1970s scientists were saying that 'global cooling' was just around the corner and the next ice age was imminent. hmmmm. The moron, Sagen, predicted that if oil fields burned disaster would happen within 2 or 3 years. Well, the oil fields burned but instead of global cooling we have global warming. What happened Karl? Another stupid theory shot to pieces?

[kyle82]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

i simply believe the bible, its discussions about the creation of the world and how revelations tell us about the last days. without this proofs and so, my faith goes strongly with the belief of God, none of us, may it be through science and discoveries, can actually prove something that our minds are just capable... we are limited... as God intented us to be.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

i simply believe the bible, its discussions about the creation of the world and how revelations tell us about the last days. without this proofs and so, my faith goes strongly with the belief of God, none of us, may it be through science and discoveries, can actually prove something that our minds are just capable... we are limited... as God intented us to be.

Well said. Believe the Bible, every word, and nothing can go wrong.

Please make a thread of your own in the "introductions" section and tell us how you came to find Christ.

[MidwestCatLady]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

I am a clinical researcher and know that science provides many wonders for mankind as well as horrors. This year after a seven year ordeal, I learned nothing can take the place of blind faith. Without it we are all lost. In fact, I no longer think of America's recent economic crisis as a financial issue as the Wallstreet wizkids would have you believe, but it is a spiritual crisis of monumental proportions. A loss that miracles are everywhere. Demons are a real threat.

I know very little about the Bible even though I own three and have read them - nothing sticks in my mind anymore but is forever burned into my heart or perhaps my soul. I know the darkness vanished from my being and I feel no fear of death, no fear of life, my life belongs to a higher power . . . a power that knows what is inside each of us intimately. We all must make amends here on Earth or be damned. I was given physical proof of the divine but the story is too weird to tell you. You would not care for the variation from traditional religious belief.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

I am a clinical researcher and know that science provides many wonders for mankind as well as horrors. This year after a seven year ordeal, I learned nothing can take the place of blind faith. Without it we are all lost. In fact, I no longer think of America's recent economic crisis as a financial issue as the Wallstreet wizkids would have you believe, but it is a spiritual crisis of monumental proportions. A loss that miracles are everywhere. Demons are a real threat.

I know very little about the Bible even though I own three and have read them - nothing sticks in my mind anymore but is forever burned into my heart or perhaps my soul. I know the darkness vanished from my being and I feel no fear of death, no fear of life, my life belongs to a higher power . . . a power that knows what is inside each of us intimately. We all must make amends here on Earth or be damned. I was given physical proof of the divine but the story is too weird to tell you. You would not care for the variation from traditional religious belief.

If you hate Jesus, then why are you here?

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

[MidwestCatLady]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

I may not know the Bible verses nor all the history. I studied religion and science and never said I did NOT believe in Christ. My way to him was simply not a traditional path but it was nevertheless a brutal journey that He opened to me. My suffering was a gift. I think each person alone in the dark is given an opportunity to find a way back. Not all of us are going to open the bible when we are looking at blowing our brains out. Some of us get lucky and are sent a true miracle that changes us forever.

Is this not written somewhere? My experience reminds me of the Footsteps in the sand prayer.

If only people who can recite the Bible are welcome on your site, then perhaps you are right - I do not belong. If only the saved are welcomed at your side - then how can any of us have a meaningful calling in this age of secularity? I mean no offense but you asked and I enjoy a good debate.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

I may not know the Bible verses nor all the history. I studied religion and science and never said I did NOT believe in Christ. My way to him was simply not a traditional path but it was nevertheless a brutal journey that He opened to me. My suffering was a gift. I think each person alone in the dark is given an opportunity to find a way back. Not all of us are going to open the bible when we are looking at blowing our brains out. Some of us get lucky and are sent a true miracle that changes us forever.

Is this not written somewhere? My experience reminds me of the Footsteps in the sand prayer.

If only people who can recite the Bible are welcome on your site, then perhaps you are right - I do not belong. If only the saved are welcomed at your side - then how can any of us have a meaningful calling in this age of secularity? I mean no offense but you asked and I enjoy a good debate.

Friend, this is not a debate site. Please read THIS thread, designed specifically for new posters like you. It explains in simple terms our Church doctrines.

If you are interested in learning, then you are welcome to stay and post respectfully. You need to start by reading the Holy Bible, not making things up to suit your current mood. God never changes.

Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not.

See what I mean?

[MidwestCatLady]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

I agree God never changes but words do have various meanings and I always wondered what gets lost in translation. I meant no offense but have no interest in reading more than what I have already read which includes a wide range of relgious literature including the Bible. (None of it changed my life. In fact, at one point, debating religion drove me deeper into despair.) So, debate was probably the wrong word - opinion a better choice. My interest is in writing/documenting my story before I die which might not be far off. Telling the story especially for the unfaithful and the lost is all that matters to me now. I feel driven. Nothing in my life has ever been this important or seemed so clear. My job is meaningless compared to the story. My illness a gift. Standing on the abyss, a place few ever get the misfortune to experience.

Perhaps you might agree that many, many people today are more touched by a true story than are willing to pick up the Bible in their darkest hour. They are more likely to read M Scott Peck or C S Lewis or hide and take some antidepressants or drink. I wish that were not true but the lost are a hard group to reach by any traditional method of preaching. Prayer- maybe. I am not an expert in your realm but a voice from the other side. Is there a place in between?

My thought was you good folks might enjoy a secular persepective and how a sinner was sent Proof - physical proof from an angel that God exists. I actually wondered if others have heard the voice and can verify the sound like a tuning fork singing from a billion miles away in melodic song only very direct. My story is interesting enough to bring people who hear it to tears. It changes them. But then again, many lost souls get their own symbol, their own journey to find a way back. I do not think God wants to see any of his creation burn in the fires of Hell. But we all are certainly given that choice.

However, if I have stumbled upon a group whose only interest is Bible study/facts, then I will leave. Although your site is very well organized with lots of interesting topics. (Some a little odd.) I just wondered if anyone here is remotely interested in a personal experience of PROOF? (That is what caught my eye tonight.) What would a group like yours think. Did you folks find the book THE SHACK a good book? You must read other books or does this belong on another thread or not at all on your site?

Thanks.

[John Bois Ward]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

I agree God never changes but words do have various meanings and I always wondered what gets lost in translation. I meant no offense but have no interest in reading more than what I have already read which includes a wide range of relgious literature including the Bible. (None of it changed my life. In fact, at one point, debating religion drove me deeper into despair.) So, debate was probably the wrong word - opinion a better choice. My interest is in writing/documenting my story before I die which might not be far off. Telling the story especially for the unfaithful and the lost is all that matters to me now. I feel driven. Nothing in my life has ever been this important or seemed so clear. My job is meaningless compared to the story. My illness a gift. Standing on the abyss, a place few ever get the misfortune to experience.

Perhaps you might agree that many, many people today are more touched by a true story than are willing to pick up the Bible in their darkest hour. They are more likely to read M Scott Peck or C S Lewis or hide and take some antidepressants or drink. I wish that were not true but the lost are a hard group to reach by any traditional method of preaching. Prayer- maybe. I am not an expert in your realm but a voice from the other side. Is there a place in between?

My thought was you good folks might enjoy a secular persepective and how a sinner was sent Proof - physical proof from an angel that God exists. I actually wondered if others have heard the voice and can verify the sound like a tuning fork singing from a billion miles away in melodic song only very direct. My story is interesting enough to bring people who hear it to tears. It changes them. But then again, many lost souls get their own symbol, their own journey to find a way back. I do not think God wants to see any of his creation burn in the fires of Hell. But we all are certainly given that choice.

However, if I have stumbled upon a group whose only interest is Bible study/facts, then I will leave. Although your site is very well organized with lots of interesting topics. (Some a little odd.) I just wondered if anyone here is remotely interested in a personal experience of PROOF? (That is what caught my eye tonight.) What would a group like yours think. Did you folks find the book THE SHACK a good book? You must read other books or does this belong on another thread or not at all on your site?

Thanks.

And how do you know it was Jesus talking to you and not some demon, meant to lead you astray? If the Bible is His Word and the message you received is different than His Word, shouldn't you question the message or perhaps your mental health?

[MidwestCatLady]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

There was only one request I had and only God or perhaps Satan (as you think) knew it. However, if my request was left unanswered I would have taken my own life - Satan wins! I had already been locked in a battle with the beast for seven years. Believe me, I know what it looks like. The request was a name for a cat but the meaning behind the name was an answer to a prayer and the seven year ordeal. It was an answer to justice and freedom, to my family, my home, to our hearth and happiness. Not being religious, I would not have HEARD a religious message. Hopefully, you understand at least this. People who are nonbelievers are NOT going to read the Bible and have a moment of awe. I do not think that rules them out for salvation or at least discovery. The message was the only one that would have made a difference to ME. It set me straight and simply let me know I was never alone, not even in my darkest hour. The angel said: Why don't you call me Hester - the name of a rescued cat that saved my life as I saved hers.

How is that evil? I am sure you guys will have some strange ideas but when you feel all your anger and hate leave your heart and all revenge vanish. When this singular act becomes the turning point where divine justice takes the place of a failed court system and all the people who were at fault fall on their own swords - it can be no other. When you feel your heart turn toward understanding and acceptance, to love for Christ and all he suffered. . . need I say more.

The Story is called the Fireplace Cat - because I firmly believe that all people lost in the darkness are sent a gift, a simple symbol to help them find a way back out and into the light. Some might be sent to you. I was not. Not everyone opens a bible when they are thinking of killing monsters and themselves. Happy people who already know have no idea what a demon really looks like. I have seen them and know they are here among us. I also know only God or one of his angels can battle a demon and they did. All I can do is trust in His timing and wisdom. Just like you. My battle is over and I did not lift a finger - all I did was feed a stray cat and pray for guidance. The guidance was to let go.

[Professor Tyeisha X]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

There was only one request I had and only God or perhaps Satan (as you think) knew it. However, if my request was left unanswered I would have taken my own life - Satan wins! I had already been locked in a battle with the beast for seven years. Believe me, I know what it looks like. The request was a name for a cat but the meaning behind the name was an answer to a prayer and the seven year ordeal. It was an answer to justice and freedom, to my family, my home, to our hearth and happiness. Not being religious, I would not have HEARD a religious message. Hopefully, you understand at least this. People who are nonbelievers are NOT going to read the Bible and have a moment of awe. I do not think that rules them out for salvation or at least discovery. The message was the only one that would have made a difference to ME. It set me straight and simply let me know I was never alone, not even in my darkest hour. The angel said: Why don't you call me Hester - the name of a rescued cat that saved my life as I saved hers.

How is that evil? I am sure you guys will have some strange ideas but when you feel all your anger and hate leave your heart and all revenge vanish. When this singular act becomes the turning point where divine justice takes the place of a failed court system and all the people who were at fault fall on their own swords - it can be no other. When you feel your heart turn toward understanding and acceptance, to love for Christ and all he suffered. . . need I say more.

The Story is called the Fireplace Cat - because I firmly believe that all people lost in the darkness are sent a gift, a simple symbol to help them find a way back out and into the light. Some might be sent to you. I was not. Not everyone opens a bible when they are thinking of killing monsters and themselves. Happy people who already know have no idea what a demon really looks like. I have seen them and know they are here among us. I also know only God or one of his angels can battle a demon and they did. All I can do is trust in His timing and wisdom. Just like you. My battle is over and I did not lift a finger - all I did was feed a stray cat and pray for guidance. The guidance was to let go.

Sister, I write published papers on post-modernism and deconstructionalism, and even I don't even know what you are babbling about!

[MidwestCatLady]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Sister, I write published papers on post-modernism and deconstructionalism, and even I don't even know what you are babbling about!

Sorry Professor. I was trying to answer the other poster without telling the story since everyone will most likely bash it based on the reaction already. I had hoped for a better response from the Christian community.

Here is the condensed version. I found myself divorced and alone in my forties wishing for a prince to rescue me, for love and fresh start. I wanted my American Dream back. Finally, meeting a wonderful man we married after only knowing each other for a few months and we bought our Dream Home. Neither of us had ever lived in a really nice neighborhood. This one was just like a storybook with a magnificent fireplace and a manicured yard. Unfortunately, no one came to our door. No one came to welcome us and we wondered why. Soon we figured out our neighbors were actually evil monsters hell-bent on making our lives miserable. They turned their yard into a racetrack and we were the first to fight back. We got their riding enjoined. They went ballistic and, unbeknown to us, were friends with the police and the State’s Attorney. They threatened to kill us and had us falsely arrested. We spent the next three years battling for our freedom as they attacked us like a swarm of angry bees. When our case was dismissed for the fourth time and came back again and the police tried to illegally search our home, we knew we had to flee. We lost everything; All of our retirement, our home, our beloved dreams. The court time cost my husband his job. At fifty years old, we were virtually broke. After working hard and being honest all of our lives, we had nothing.

My husband and I had been brought together by our common love of cats and rescuing these small creatures. Eventually, we found ourselves in a new home which we built by ourselves. Exhausted and broke, the angry neighbors found us and attacked our new home. I fell apart and was hospitalized with PTSD. I wanted to kill them. My anger and hate were so consuming it is all I thought about. We actually won a settlement but they simply followed by filing bankruptcy.

We had been attracted to the first home because of its hearth and when my father died we purchased an antique one to take with us to our construction. It was a spectacular piece from the 1800s with all the original ironwork and the face of gentle maiden in the center. Despite all these wonderful things, I could not live with my anger and hate, with the loss of all my money and my dreams. Unpacked boxes had become my symbol. I decided to end my life. I was not a believer of any kind but with my last sane breath I begged the Universe to send me a simple sign that this house, this home was where my husband and I belonged, that we would be safe and happy in this new home. A simple request, I’m sure you’ll agree.

The next day, my last day, I walked by our front door to see all my cats lashing their tails and a beautiful starving stray white cat positioned at my tall front porch window. The cat looked terrible. It would cry a soundless squeak begging to come in from the cold. It had no voice. After all my years of cat rescuing I could not believe this coincidence. I remember actually laughing at the Universe. I am sick and dieing, insane and medicated and you send me a FIFTH CAT? It was a joke.

I kept the cat and hoped it was my symbol but never even bothered to name it because of my depression. My anger and hate at not being able to collect a dime where overwhelming. How could this cat be my symbol and yet I was still so miserable? My doctor told me to think of something else besides revenge. I tried to find a Greek or Roman name for my cat. But none came to mind.

In the shower one morning, I thought, “What am I going to name Number Five?” And I felt a rift open in my mind and like the beam of a laser a tiny distant female voice, melodic and beautiful, quickly said, “Why don’t you call me Hester.”

I hated the name. I was not even sure I heard the voice and thought perhaps I was finally insane. I called her Hester and found out when I typed in “Greek Goddess Meaning” she was Goddess of the Home and Hearth. Well, well, that was surprising. However, I still did not get better. Not even a little. I did not get better until my cat came to my bedside and lay upon my legs. The voice came one more time and said, “Help me I’m dieing.” With that, my cat collapsed. I felt I had killed her by ignoring my gift. My fate was sealed.

Rushing Hester to the vet resulted in a long, long journey where I spent my last 3K – all the money I had left to save her, to save an insignificant creature. She needed a feeding tube and six different medications. She is the only cat to this day in my vet’s twenty year practice to ever survive her disease. I had to tube feed my symbol, my cat, for five long months every two to four hours around the clock. I got an ulcer and nearly lost my job. Justice was still not served. My life was horrible.

Then one day Hester got better and so did I. I had no idea why. It was amazing and gradually as though we were joined. Her tube was removed and she ate. At work one morning, I stopped outside an operating room to read their bulletin board and found a story called a Cherokee Prayer: The Tale of Two Wolves. I discovered that day that feeding Hester was the gift. All the time, effort, money and energy spent feeding this cat I loved saved my life. Only God would have known. He would have the wisdom to send me a cat. Only He knew I would not let the animal die. No human could have helped me. I was too far gone. When I looked up her name’s full meaning. I discovered that Hester is really Hestia and she is a powerful Olympian Goddess. (You have never heard of her, I know.) Hestia was the daughter of the God of Time and sister to Zeus. She valued peace and harmony in the community and justice above all else. When Apollo and Poseidon both demanded her hand in marriage, she refused fearing a war on Mt. Olympus. Pleased with his sister’s decision, Zeus gave her the keys to the family estate where she tended to the hearth and home. She cooked and cleaned and entertained her bothers and sisters. She was the most revered Goddess but no one knows of her anymore because she rarely spoke and when she did, she had a very quiet voice. Just like my cat. Any new couple that wanted their home blessed, would travel to the fires of Olympus and take the flame while listening to quiet Hestia. In doing so, they were granted peace, comfort and joy in their home forever. Later in life, her image appears on many community buildings representing justice and harmony.

I let go of my hate and slowly watched as all the people that had done us wrong lost everything. They lost elections, lost their homes, lost their marriages and their finances. A few lost their freedom. Divine justice was swifter and more perfect than anything our court system could have provided. Hester lived and I was free. She will forever be my Fireplace Cat. I believe everyone who cannot see God, is given a sign, something to light the way. Gifts from the heavens come in all shapes and sizes. Mine was a cat, named by an angel with a meaning from deep in my heart that only God knew. In the end, I discovered there is only God. No prince, no American Dream, no Knight in Shining Armor just faith. It is the only thing that can light the way in the dark. Vengeance is mine said the Lord and He means it.

So, that is my miracle. My proof is only mine. Yet, everday I get to come home a touch the top of Hester's sweet head and know I am not alone. I am loved and their is justice in an unfair world.

[James Hutchins]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Look lady, people put in race tracks for a reason. Just because you are a prude and unable to drive or ride does not mean you can force your narrow minded principles on others. You admitted you are trailer trash, having never lived in a decent neighborhood. In the Po' part of town, people cannot afford race cars or motorcycles and therefore do not have tracks. If you had a problem with where you lived, you should of moved back to shanty town. Your neighbors where there first.
The fact you are a cat person is very bad. Everyone knows cats wait till you are sound asleep and then they try to suffocate you. Best thing you can do is swing them by the tail and let them rip off a cliff. That is, unless you have dogs. Then you can toss a few cats in the cage. It is better than TV sometimes. Stories like yours make me want to puke. God is very, very disappointed you are such a flake.
We have the KJV1611 Bible. It is the Book about God and His teachings. How could you possibly need more proof than that? Been around a lot longer than a pointless stinky cat. Reading is Fun-demental.