[joe707]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Ok friend, what exactly is your point or your question here? You will have to excuse Brother Smith, he is currently on emergency virtual retreat.

I am sorry to hear he is unwell. When he is back I would like to hear his thoughts on the matter. My question was whether hearing the word is enough? It seems not.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

But is it because of sin that their hearts are waxed gross?

Absolutely. I'm not sure why you seem to think that the passage you quoted says otherwise. That passage goes on to explicitly state that it is our sin, and only our sin, that causes us to become corrupted.

Mark 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Mark 7:22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Mark 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

So yes, it is because of sin.

In that passage, Jesus was confronting some Pharisees who where all up in arms because Jesus didn't wash his hands before he ate. In a nutshell, Jesus told them that we aren't corrupted by anything that enters our bellies, but by the sin that comes out of our hearts.

My question was whether hearing the word is enough? It seems not.

Of course merely hearing the word is not enough. Even the Devil hears the word. It's the hearing the word (John 5:24), repenting of sin (Luke 13:5), becoming born again (John 3:3), and obeying the word (Matt 7:21) that makes one saved.

You seem to be making a big deal out of "understanding". That's not important now. You don't have to understand everything first.

What's important is being willing to give up sin. Once you are ready to admit that you are a sinner and you are willing to give up your sin, God will send the Holy Ghost to live inside of you and you will become born again. Once you have the spirit of God living inside of you, doing God's will comes naturally, and you will no longer sin (1 John 3:9).

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[joe707]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Ok, that’s clearer. Yes, I can see now it is more involved than just following the word. It needs to take place at the root level, not just with superficial acts and deeds and following words. It’s what comes from within that defiles the man, good.

Understanding is a big deal. Could you even repent, fully, truly, without knowing what that was about? Otherwise it might be partial, might be just a join-the-dots type of salvation. A quick fix. Which I'm sure you have seen going on in the world.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

[...]Understanding is a big deal. Could you even repent, fully, truly, without knowing what that was about? Otherwise it might be partial, might be just a join-the-dots type of salvation. A quick fix. Which I'm sure you have seen going on in the world.

Without prejudice to anything Pastor Bill-Reuben might add, your question about understanding is relative.

In your class at school, there were doubtless those who excelled in math and those who didn’t. Likewise, in faith there will be those who hold it on a simple and may be erroneous level and those who strive to attain a complete understanding.

The person confronted in real life with a calculation beyond him, has few places to turn. The faithful, in questions of understanding, have the pastor. It is thus imperative that you chose a church with a pastor who knows the bible and does not interpret it in any other way than is laid out in KJV 1611 – none of these homer marriages, women preaching, tolerance of worshipping other gods, etc.

Your question now is, “Yes, but if they arrived on the short-bus, when will they know that they are wrong, and thus, at what point will they know that they approach the pastor?”

This, in itself boils down to, “At what stage does being irredeemably stupid become a fatal liability to entrance to Heaven?” The answer to that has puzzled sages throughout time; the line is fuzzy but you’ll recognize them when you see them.

Christ talks of childlike innocence and, When I was a child, I thought like a child and when… etc. As a child, there is something that lets you know what is right and what is not – but that feeling is imperfect – it may well be right to evict a poor family, but a child will not understand this. Jesus clearly expects some mature thought from those capable of it, but sees why the dim may not make it as they become men.

So, the only way forward is to obey every word blindly. Make your peace with Jesus and follow His every Word. When called upon to explain yourself, this will be your prayer; that you thought it was a good idea at the time and that there is scripture to support your action.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Understanding is a big deal. Could you even repent, fully, truly, without knowing what that was about? Otherwise it might be partial, might be just a join-the-dots type of salvation. A quick fix. Which I'm sure you have seen going on in the world.

The only things we really have to understand are the facts that we are depraved sinners, that nothing we can do on our own is ever good enough to please God, that our sin makes God hot with anger, and that we need to stop sinning if we want God to accept us.

That's why the "self-esteem" movement is so dangerous. It teaches people to be happy with who they are. Well, if "who we are" is a bunch of sinners, and we're happy with that, then we aren't going to feel the need to repent and get right with God. That's why we don't mollycoddle the various pagans, fornicators, and homos we get on this forum looking for tolerance. If they receive tolerance, then they aren't going to change their ways, they aren't going to give up their sin, and they are going to end up in Hell. I love them too much to practice tolerance.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[JACKKKKASSS]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

you do realise that this video is a mickeytake?

'its the 21st century- science and reason have no place in our lives, we have to live them through the words in a very old book'

i cant believe that you are all taking this video seriously

it just shows how your ready to belive anyone who says the word holy and virgin often enough.

[Nobar King]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Of course it's just a video. The real proof of God is in the Bible. You have one of those, don't you?

[joe707]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Without prejudice to anything Pastor Bill-Reuben might add, your question about understanding is relative.

In your class at school, there were doubtless those who excelled in math and those who didn’t. Likewise, in faith there will be those who hold it on a simple and may be erroneous level and those who strive to attain a complete understanding.

The person confronted in real life with a calculation beyond him, has few places to turn. The faithful, in questions of understanding, have the pastor. It is thus imperative that you chose a church with a pastor who knows the bible and does not interpret it in any other way than is laid out in KJV 1611 – none of these homer marriages, women preaching, tolerance of worshipping other gods, etc.

I agree with you, my question about understanding is relative. Confronted with a calculation of math, I would turn to an expert for teaching. Confronted with a calculation of faith, maybe I would turn to an expert for advice. But as in all things, neither will actually be able to do the understanding for me. And it’s not like some math puzzle; cleverness is not the issue. Ultimately it is up to you. No one will do the job for you. In the end you have to make the jump on your own.

So, the only way forward is to obey every word blindly. Make your peace with Jesus and follow His every Word. When called upon to explain yourself, this will be your prayer; that you thought it was a good idea at the time and that there is scripture to support your action.

Yes, we can only do what each of us is ready to do, we can only draw on what resources are available to us. But my prayer is now, I am called to explain myself now.

[joe707]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

The only things we really have to understand are the facts that we are depraved sinners, that nothing we can do on our own is ever good enough to please God, that our sin makes God hot with anger, and that we need to stop sinning if we want God to accept us.

That's why the "self-esteem" movement is so dangerous. It teaches people to be happy with who they are. Well, if "who we are" is a bunch of sinners, and we're happy with that, then we aren't going to feel the need to repent and get right with God. That's why we don't mollycoddle the various pagans, fornicators, and homos we get on this forum looking for tolerance. If they receive tolerance, then they aren't going to change their ways, they aren't going to give up their sin, and they are going to end up in Hell. I love them too much to practice tolerance.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

For me it is more than that, and I still think understanding can only be good. Many things lead one to repent - by recognising something is lacking in you, through guilt, through love and devotion, or through fear of punishment for example. There are other ways.

Tolerance can be the most devastating thing - sometimes much more so than intolerance. It can bring about true, profound change. Again...... sometimes. Isn't it fundamental what you believe or understand the nature of God to be – the God that you are repenting for? The God that you would turn your life over to?

[thatguy]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

This video's a tough one, all right. I'm still trying to guess whether this is a big satirical joke, or if he was being serious. If he was then wow. He insinuates that because the Bible is old, then it must be believed. Ok, so does that mean that a spell book from the Ancient Egyptians is to be believed as well? Maybe I'll just go whip myself up a few spells by mixing a cat's ear and a dog's tail. And for those of you who will go "Woah, he said something about spells, he's definitely a wiccan!" well... don't. Just don't. Anyway, you also insinuate that the Bible is written by God. Prove it. And no, you're not allowed to use scripture, because the only you could justify that is by saying God wrote it, which is what you'd be trying to prove. It's a vicious circle.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

This video's a tough one, all right. I'm still trying to guess whether this is a big satirical joke, or if he was being serious. If he was then wow. He insinuates that because the Bible is old, then it must be believed. Ok, so does that mean that a spell book from the Ancient Egyptians is to be believed as well? Maybe I'll just go whip myself up a few spells by mixing a cat's ear and a dog's tail. And for those of you who will go "Woah, he said something about spells, he's definitely a wiccan!" well... don't. Just don't. Anyway, you also insinuate that the Bible is written by God. Prove it. And no, you're not allowed to use scripture, because the only you could justify that is by saying God wrote it, which is what you'd be trying to prove. It's a vicious circle.

That is is easy

There are two logical possibilities with The Bible

• If the Bible was written by God since is beyond our comprehension The Bible would be difficult to understand
  
• If the Bible was written by people it would be carefully edit to clearly present its agenda to its audience so all could understand it.

Since The Bible is an confusing mess, skipping from topic to topic randomly. Contains bizarre ideas and events that border on the surreal and only the most dedicated of scholars can understand it clearly it was created by God.

And it is very, very old.

[Nobar King]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

. Ok, so does that mean that a spell book from the Ancient Egyptians is to be believed as well? Maybe I'll just go whip myself up a few spells by mixing a cat's ear and a dog's tail. And for those of you who will go "Woah, he said something about spells, he's definitely a wiccan!"

You don't have any ancient Egyptian texts. If you did, the spells wouldn't work. That just proves that they were wrong.

BTW, you're not a stupid wiccan, are you?

[joe707]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

You don't have any ancient Egyptian texts. If you did, the spells wouldn't work. That just proves that they were wrong.

BTW, you're not a stupid wiccan, are you?

Much as that point about antiquity is a pretty good one, I've got to say that was a good joke, Nobar! Well, it made me laugh.

[Ivan Jellicle]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Well I can totally see where you guys are coming from, and I think you're doing a great job, Praise the Lord!

I am proud to say that I too have a bible, and it is a mighty tome, dedicated to 'The Most High And Mighty Prince James, by the Grace of God', etc., etc., with lots of really thin pages and with illustrations and pictures of mummies, and Egyptian stuff, and plates of squiggly writing and maps at the back and everything. It is heavy, and surely it would be most suitable for smiting the heathen, and the vast majority of other sinners who don't believe it or even read it - but I'm happy to let God do the judging and smiting, and I'm sure he makes a better job of it than I ever would.

But I have concerns, and one is about Heaven - because I mean, God knows I don't want to go to Hell - that would be, well, just Hell, and I'm pretty determined I'm not going to... but I really don't know if I could last forever with those happy-clappy, turn-the-other-cheek, soft Christians with their tambourines, weedy voices, and out of tune guitars, and those smug ones who are always baking cakes (God, they are a pain!) . So does Heaven have suitable gated communities where we can hang out to avoid these types? maybe with sound-proofing? Or maybe they just won't get into Heaven - is there some door policy on sandals with socks?

Can you allay my doubts and reassure me? I don't want a brochure or anything dumb like that, it's just that I'm a bit confused - as a right-thinking blind believer in the Word of the Holy Book, I think I tick all the right boxes, but I really don't want to feel a little nauseous and irritable for all eternity...

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Mr Jellicle,
We can know little directly of Heaven. However, all right-thinking people accept that it is the place to be. I should imagine that it is like life in the 1950s before Godlessness got hold of the world. Freckled boys and girls selling lemonade and delivering newspapers! Newspapers filled with good news – none of this drink, drugs, sex, civil rights, and rock and roll.

I, at one time, shared your concerns about “happy-clappy, turn-the-other-cheek, soft Christians” but then a pastor explained that these are the people who create a god in their own image and that we True Christians™ would have a grandstand seat, watching them being judged – apparently the expression on their faces as they crack the gates of Hell open, will be a sight to behold!

Now to business: you seem like a good Christian, why not cut across to the Introduction Forum and tell us about yourself?