[GOD=life]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

I'm not going to waste my personal time on people who believe there is a magic man in the sky who created disabled people on purpose.

How about you stop wasting your personal time on us altogether and leave us in peace? You are the one joining a Christian forum to bash the members there. Do we come to your atheist forum? No. Just leave us in peace.

On your way out, please do feel absolutely free to pick up one of those "stupid" KJV 1611 Bibles.

[Indica~]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Indica, huh? Are you some kind of dope-fiend?

Pastor Billy-Reuben

Not at all sir, Indica is my name in real life. Yes my crack-smoking secular mother named me that before she died and was sent to the fires of hell.

I carry it as my symbolic cross and a reminder that I must walk in the good light to be saved.

Praise be to Jesus.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

To post links which explain how you're wrong. Read them, and it's shown. I'm not going to waste my personal time on people who believe there is a magic man in the sky who created disabled people on purpose.

Your links use assumptions rather than actual observations to make their claims. One uses an assumed value for the distance to the moon, and the other uses an assumed value for the distance to Venus. With that sort of "rigorous methodology", you can say the sun is whatever distance away you want.

My calculation uses measured values, rather than an assumed values. That's why my calculation gives a different result than theirs. They are assuming their conclusion, which is a logical fallacy known as "Begging the Question".

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

To post links which explain how you're wrong. Read them, and it's shown. I'm not going to waste my personal time on people who believe there is a magic man in the sky who created disabled people on purpose.

Oh so you think disabled people are that way because its their fault for making the wrong prenatal choices in gens friend? Not very compassionate, are you friend.

[Jamesy]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Oh so you think disabled people are that way because its their fault for making the wrong prenatal choices in gens friend? Not very compassionate, are you friend.

...No, I don't. I think disabled people who were born that way are that way because of genetic problems. Christ, you lot are thick. Yes, I said Christ, I blasphemed, big deal.

[MarkHenry]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Ok since there are some misunderstanding about the math, formulas and the numbers used in general I took some time to calculate out the distance to the sun using a heliocentrical world model and a geocentrical, lastly the method I present to you can be used with either world model.

The effective temperature of a planet can be calculated by equating the power received by the planet with the power emitted by our Sun of temperature T.

Take our case of a planet at a distance D from the star, of luminosity L.

Assuming the star radiates isotropically and that the planet is a long way from the star, the power absorbed by the planet is given by treating the planet as a disc of radius r (geocentrical, biblically correct) , which intercepts some of the power which is spread over the surface of a sphere of radius D (the part of the sphere that the earth covers, is proportional to the energy the sun emmits). We also allow the planet to reflect some of the incoming radiation by incorporating a parameter called the albedo. An albedo of 1 means that all the radiation is reflected, an albedo of 0 means all of it is absorbed.The expression for absorbed power is then:


The next assumption we can make is that the entire planet is at the same temperature T, and that the planet radiates as a blackbody. The Stefan–Boltzmann law gives an expression for the power radiated by a body:

Power radiated= 4(pi)r²σT^4

Equating these two expressions and rearranging gives an expression for the effective temperature:




ALBEDO OF EARTH IS 0.367
Temperature of earth is on average: 287 K
Luminosity of the sun is found by:

It has been shown that the luminosity of a star L (assuming the star is a black body, which is a good approximation) is also related to temperature T and radius R of the star by the equation:



where σ is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant.

OK HERE IS THE BIG GAP AND BREAK WHERE WE "plug in" VALUES FOR R, THE RADIUS OF THE SUN. Equatorial radius of sun lets assume 6.955×105 km
SUN's SURFACE TEMPERATURE IS 5,778 K
Thus the Luminosity of the sun is 3.839 × 10^26W.

Lets sum it up:
Luminosity of the sun is 3.839 × 1026W L
Albedo of theearth is 0.367 A
Temperature of earth is on average: 287 K T
Stefan-Boltzmann constant

If we rearrange the formula to find D (distance to the sun) we obtain:

(I'll rearrange the formula fo all to follow)
[(T^4)x16x(pi)x(σ)] / [(L)x(1-A)] = 1/D²
1/D² = 7.89^-23
D²=1.26x10^22
D= 1.125x10^11 meters ~ 112,500,000,000meters = 112,500,000 km


COMCLUSION:

This is a result if we plug in R as a radius of the sun. I could have gone over another method about absolute/apparent magnitude but seing as this would not be understandable for anyone I left it out. Last remarks being:
Errors: The average surface temperature of the earth influences the reesults greatly, as it is to the power of 4. Just for show:
288^4 - 287^4 (one degree difference) = 95054975. If the temperature flunctuates slightly, the result shoots up or down tens of million of kilometers.

Overall the results are all in order. I used a geocentrical world view but modern math and still turned out the same. Questions? ask them but precisely and only about math and not religious aspects of math.

Also please don't rip at me for "the radius of the sun was plugged in" because if you go with a smalle radius = smaller sun = less luminosity = less power radiated = temperature of our planet is too low. Its all correct.

[Jamesy]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Ok since there are some misunderstanding about the math, formulas and the numbers used in general I took some time to calculate out the distance to the sun using a heliocentrical world model and a geocentrical, lastly the method I present to you can be used with either world model.

The effective temperature of a planet can be calculated by equating the power received by the planet with the power emitted by our Sun of temperature T.

Take our case of a planet at a distance D from the star, of luminosity L.

Assuming the star radiates isotropically and that the planet is a long way from the star, the power absorbed by the planet is given by treating the planet as a disc of radius r (geocentrical, biblically correct) , which intercepts some of the power which is spread over the surface of a sphere of radius D (the part of the sphere that the earth covers, is proportional to the energy the sun emmits). We also allow the planet to reflect some of the incoming radiation by incorporating a parameter called the albedo. An albedo of 1 means that all the radiation is reflected, an albedo of 0 means all of it is absorbed.The expression for absorbed power is then:


The next assumption we can make is that the entire planet is at the same temperature T, and that the planet radiates as a blackbody. The Stefan–Boltzmann law gives an expression for the power radiated by a body:

Power radiated= 4(pi)r²σT^4

Equating these two expressions and rearranging gives an expression for the effective temperature:




ALBEDO OF EARTH IS 0.367
Temperature of earth is on average: 287 K
Luminosity of the sun is found by:

It has been shown that the luminosity of a star L (assuming the star is a black body, which is a good approximation) is also related to temperature T and radius R of the star by the equation:



where σ is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant.

OK HERE IS THE BIG GAP AND BREAK WHERE WE "plug in" VALUES FOR R, THE RADIUS OF THE SUN. Equatorial radius of sun lets assume 6.955×105 km
SUN's SURFACE TEMPERATURE IS 5,778 K
Thus the Luminosity of the sun is 3.839 × 10^26W.

Lets sum it up:
Luminosity of the sun is 3.839 × 1026W L
Albedo of theearth is 0.367 A
Temperature of earth is on average: 287 K T
Stefan-Boltzmann constant

If we rearrange the formula to find D (distance to the sun) we obtain:

(I'll rearrange the formula fo all to follow)
[(T^4)x16x(pi)x(σ)] / [(L)x(1-A)] = 1/D²
1/D² = 7.89^-23
D²=1.26x10^22
D= 1.125x10^11 meters ~ 112,500,000,000meters = 112,500,000 km


COMCLUSION:

This is a result if we plug in R as a radius of the sun. I could have gone over another method about absolute/apparent magnitude but seing as this would not be understandable for anyone I left it out. Last remarks being:
Errors: The average surface temperature of the earth influences the reesults greatly, as it is to the power of 4. Just for show:
288^4 - 287^4 (one degree difference) = 95054975. If the temperature flunctuates slightly, the result shoots up or down tens of million of kilometers.

Overall the results are all in order. I used a geocentrical world view but modern math and still turned out the same. Questions? ask them but precisely and only about math and not religious aspects of math.

Also please don't rip at me for "the radius of the sun was plugged in" because if you go with a smalle radius = smaller sun = less luminosity = less power radiated = temperature of our planet is too low. Its all correct.

Nice one for proving them wrong. Win.

[MarkHenry]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Equatorial radius of sun lets assume 6.955×10^5 km


mistakethe program doesn't let me write powers so i have to put a "^" every time for powers larger than 3.

[MarkHenry]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Nice one for proving them wrong. Win.

Not really. It doesn't change their faith. I respect their faith, I just hope they respect my math. Math is absolute, if god had a language it would be math, since there can only be one possible way to interpret numbers. Language is ambiguos, numbers are exact and perfect.

[Jamesy]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Not really. It doesn't change their faith. I respect their faith, I just hope they respect my math. Math is absolute, if god had a language it would be math, since there can only be one possible way to interpret numbers. Language is ambiguos, numbers are exact and perfect.

No, I meant proving them wrong about the distance to the Sun.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Also please don't rip at me for "the radius of the sun was plugged in" because if you go with a smalle radius = smaller sun = less luminosity = less power radiated = temperature of our planet is too low. Its all correct.

I'm sorry, but I must.

If the sun is smaller, the temperature of the planet is not too low if the sun is close enough. You can make your formula give you any distance you want by changing your assumption for the equatorial radius of the sun. What happens if you assume the equatorial radius of the sun is 60 kilometers, leaving everything else the same?

Nice one for proving them wrong. Win.

There is no possible way that you evaluated what he wrote and understood if and how it proved me wrong in two minutes. Anything that looks complicated with all the numbers and squiggly lines and funny symbols and whatnot and says Pastor Billy is wrong must automatically be true to you. Must be easier than thinking, I guess.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[MarkHenry]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Pastor, we have something called absolute and apparent magnitude of the sun. This is based on how humans see the sub's brightness with their eyes. Using this magnitude and a logarithmic scale you can come back to the luminosity of the sun. I just did not want to go there seing as people without a university degree in some sort of mathematical science would not understand a word.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Pastor, we have something called absolute and apparent magnitude of the sun. This is based on how humans see the sub's brightness with their eyes. Using this magnitude and a logarithmic scale you can come back to the luminosity of the sun. I just did not want to go there seing as people without a university degree in some sort of mathematical science would not understand a word.

Many of us have university degrees. Let's see it, friend. If you show your work then I'm sure most people will be able to follow along.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Jamesy]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

There is no possible way that you evaluated what he wrote and understood if and how it proved me wrong in two minutes. Anything that looks complicated with all the numbers and squiggly lines and funny symbols and whatnot and says Pastor Billy is wrong must automatically be true to you. Must be easier than thinking, I guess.

...No, I read it. I'm a fast reader, maybe you're shitslow at reading but I'm not.

[Nico de Vries]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

You can make your formula give you any distance you want by changing your assumption for the equatorial radius of the sun. What happens if you assume the equatorial radius of the sun is 60 kilometers, leaving everything else the same?

This is a very good point.

Seems to me some geometry might be helpful here. By measuring the angle of the sun relative to the ground at two different locations we should be able to determine it's distance to Earth.