[GOD=life]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

It is ridiculous that you need to come with scientific proof for what is readily apparent to anyone with common sense.

Anyone who has any knowledge about how the human eye works knows that we can NOT see objects at a far distance. We are not eagles, for instance. Now to claim that the naked human eye can see an object millions of miles away? Preposterous.

But I guess that you have to stoop down to their level sometimes with scientific hocus pocus to make them see the light (pun intended).

[MarkHenry]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Praise the Lord! He has shown me how to prove scientifically that the sun is no more than 500 miles overhead.

Here is the proof:

To start off with, the sun is hot enough to glow yellow, so we can use Wein's Displacement Law to determine the temperature.

Wein's Displacement Law:
Peak Wavelength in meters = displacement constant / temperature in Kelvin

Yellow light has a wavelength between 570nm and 580nm, so we'll solve for 575nm. Since we are working with nanometers rather than meters, we'll simplify the math by multiplying the displacement constant by 10^9.

575 = 2897768.5/T
575 * T = 2897768.5
T = 2897768.5/575
T = 5039.6° K (8611.6° F)

So the sun is about 5039.6° Kelvin.

Now, the average temperature of the earth is 59° F, or about 288° K. The mean temperature gradient of the troposphere is 6° K/km, so let's solve for the distance.

d = (5039.6 - 288)/6
d = 791.9 km (491.1 miles)

There you have it. The sun is roughly 491.1 miles overhead. Depending on the exact shade of yellow (whether it's closer to 570nm or 580nm), this figure could be off by as much as 5 miles. However, I don't have a spectrometer handy, and I'm willing to live with an uncertainty of ±5 miles. It's not like I'm planning to visit anytime soon -- my shoes would melt .

The LORD is so good to me. Praise the sweet name of Jesus.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

Dear brother Pastor Billy-Reuben

Your approach WOULD BE valid if for only 1 single mistake in your calculations.
For all that are not willing to accept tools such as a thermometer, a measuring tape, a weight scale, do not read on.
You have assumed a mean temperature gradient of the troposphere of 6° K/km. Ok.
2 versions of this:
Biblical: Sun cannot be that far away, you are right.

Modern: There is a loooooot of empty space between the sun and the earth. The light from the sun is not disturbed when it travels through this empty space. Much like a bullet that is stopped by a wall, but flies far through the air. This way the light from the sun can cover an immens distance without loosing the heat it brings us. Now this is where yourcalculations, Pastor, come into effect. When light (a form of energy) enters our atmospeher which contains matter (Oxygen, carbondioxide, nitrogen etc.) it heats up the air and the ground making it warm here.

[Thors-Hammer]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

I have heard that the sun is closer to the Earth during winter than in summer. I suspect that the opposite is true.

How would the sun know when winter is, anyway?

The idiocy in this post is astounding.

[John Scopes]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Deleted

Deleted

If you are both here to make some sort of point you are wasting your time. I have been doing research here for months. It is certainly a fascinating place but if you seek some sort of deep intellectual conversation you will both be sorely disappointed.

However, do not let me dissuade either of you.

[Reuzegom]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Dear brother Pastor Billy-Reuben,

I find your calculations really great, and of course if God himself showed you how to prove it, then this must be right!

Of Course, I am not as good in this mathematics, but reading this post, I had only one question:

If I go 500 miles away from the sun, would i then be 1000 miles away from the sun?
This probably won't be right, because as told before, math is not my strongest thing, but can u then give me a scaled drawing of the relation between sun and earth?

I don't try to offend you, This was only a question that came to me as I was trying to understand and learing from you!

[John Scopes]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Dear brother Pastor Billy-Reuben,

I find your calculations really great, and of course if God himself showed you how to prove it, then this must be right!

Of Course, I am not as good in this mathematics, but reading this post, I had only one question:

If I go 500 miles away from the sun, would i then be 1000 miles away from the sun?
This probably won't be right, because as told before, math is not my strongest thing, but can u then give me a scaled drawing of the relation between sun and earth?

I don't try to offend you, This was only a question that came to me as I was trying to understand and learing from you!

Fascinating question, I will suspend reality for a moment to respond.

It depends on your point of reference, if you are going 500 miles away from earth in a direction opposite the sun then yes you would be 1000 miles away.

If however you acknowledge that the Earth is a blackbody that re-radiates the energy it absorbs and that energy is sent back to the sun, then in that case we are also 1000 miles away accounting for the round trip of the energy.

[Reuzegom]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

I do not mean 500 miles away from the earth either...

So we are about 600 miles away from the sun. If I turn my back to the sun, and start walking for 500 miles (while still on earth), will i then be 1000 miles away from the sun? (and actually still be on earth).
If you find this a stupid question, then I am sorry, I am not good in math, but can you then please make a scaled drawing of the sun and earth?

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Yeah, it's a stupid question. First you couldn't walk 500 miles, I suspect you are fat and unfit. Next, it would take you more than a day to walk 500 miles - something you didn't think of when you started posting. Third, your distance from the sun is, at all times much the same; you do a scale drawing if you are so interested.

(I am appalled at the way you think you can march in here and order people about!)

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

I'll be back online later this afternoon and I'll let you know what Gerry said.

That rascal! He confessed to me today that he never could figure out how to work the spectrometer, so he just downloaded that spectrometer output image file from the internet and got that 501nm figure from Wickapedia.

Runman, you said my mathematics was sound and you seem to know what you're talking about, so I'll tell you what. Why don't you tell me what figure I should use for the peak wavelength and I'll plug that into the formula.

So we are about 600 miles away from the sun. If I turn my back to the sun, and start walking for 500 miles (while still on earth), will i then be 1000 miles away from the sun? (and actually still be on earth).

No, the math doesn't work like that. Since the sun is overhead, and you are walking along the ground, you won't be walking directly away from the sun but rather you will be walking at an angle to the sun, so you'll have to measure that angle and apply the Pythagorean theorem to calculate the distance. Do you have a sextant? Also, the sun will be moving across the sky as you are walking, and I'm sure it will take you many weeks to walk 500 miles, so you'll have to take that into account as well. Even so, I think you'll find that you haven't moved very far away from the sun at all.

The only way to move directly away from the sun would be to dig, and you can't dig a 500 mile deep hole, because once you get about 12 or so miles down you will hit Hell.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Reuzegom]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Oh I see, thanks for that clearance Pastor Billy-Reuben!

But that didn't exactly cover my whole point.

What if I have a friend that lives 500 miles away from me.
Now I tried to look up this 'Pythagorean' formule, but all i get is:
A² + B² = C², so euhm, I didnt quite inderstand until I looked it up further.

So the sun is right above me (+- 600 miles away) and my friend lives 500 miles away from me, so that the angle made is 90° exactly.

I guess that then that guy lives euhm
500*500 = 250 000
600*600 = 360 000
Square root of 610000 = 781.0249675906655 (if I can believe the internet ofcourse, because those calculations are made by the internet, I could not have done them myself).

My friend lives then about 781 miles away from the sun?

I do not try to offend you in any way Pastor, I was just thinking silly perhaps

[MarkHenry]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Ok here is one for the people who did not fail math or are afraid of numbers.
The Topic starter said

Now, the average temperature of the earth is 59° F, or about 288° K. The mean temperature gradient of the troposphere is 6° K/km, so let's solve for the distance.

This means you can go around 48 km from where you do your calculations and you will be at 0°K. It is impossible to go below 0°K. So basically you say the worls is a disk with radius of 48 km...

Dear topic starter i will show you your mistake:
You assumed the temperature was linearly linked to the distance traveled from the sun. You just destroyed your own logic, becasue well... I guarantee you everyone knows how small 48 KM (24 miles) are? The world is not a disk of 24 miles radius.

comment on this

[Reuzegom]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

That can not be right!

Pastor please explain to him where he is wrong!

[-JustSayin]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Praise the Lord! He has shown me how to prove scientifically that the sun is no more than 500 miles overhead.

Here is the proof:

To start off with, the sun is hot enough to glow yellow, so we can use Wein's Displacement Law to determine the temperature.

Wein's Displacement Law:
Peak Wavelength in meters = displacement constant / temperature in Kelvin

Yellow light has a wavelength between 570nm and 580nm, so we'll solve for 575nm. Since we are working with nanometers rather than meters, we'll simplify the math by multiplying the displacement constant by 10^9.

575 = 2897768.5/T
575 * T = 2897768.5
T = 2897768.5/575
T = 5039.6° K (8611.6° F)

So the sun is about 5039.6° Kelvin.

Now, the average temperature of the earth is 59° F, or about 288° K. The mean temperature gradient of the troposphere is 6° K/km, so let's solve for the distance.

d = (5039.6 - 288)/6
d = 791.9 km (491.1 miles)

There you have it. The sun is roughly 491.1 miles overhead. Depending on the exact shade of yellow (whether it's closer to 570nm or 580nm), this figure could be off by as much as 5 miles. However, I don't have a spectrometer handy, and I'm willing to live with an uncertainty of ±5 miles. It's not like I'm planning to visit anytime soon -- my shoes would melt .

The LORD is so good to me. Praise the sweet name of Jesus.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

That's got to be some of the most Bullcrap I've seen posted, anywhere... LOL

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

So the sun is right above me (+- 600 miles away) and my friend lives 500 miles away from me, so that the angle made is 90° exactly.

Where are you that the sun is directly overhead? Given the time of day you posted it and the time of year I'm guessing you must be somewhere in the southeast Pacific, maybe Easter Island. Is that right? Do you know the angle to the sun from where your friend is? Does he have a sextant? Have you measured the distance and are you certain that your friend is exactly 500.000 miles away as the crow flies? Is he at the same altitude as you, or is he up or down hill?

Dear topic starter i will show you your mistake:
You assumed the temperature was linearly linked to the distance traveled from the sun. You just destroyed your own logic, becasue well... I guarantee you everyone knows how small 48 KM (24 miles) are? The world is not a disk of 24 miles radius.

comment on this

Dear topic replier, you obviously haven't read the whole topic, because if you had you would have seen that someone else has already brought up this exact same objection. In response, we conducted a second experiment with a pyranometer, where we measured solar radiation from various elevations and used the inverse squares law to calculate the distance to the sun, and the results were confirmed.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[MarkHenry]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

i'm sorry for missing this reply i will go look it up imediately. SOrry for posting alreadly posted debate material, but i'll be back with more