[StarrKingGrad]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

So, a couple of questions... if the earth is flat, where is the end of the earth? if it's at the horizon then what if there is land up to the point of the horizon? if there is a set edge of the world, do you know where it is and how much room around the known world does it give?

It's always good to ask questions, but I don't think we should rush to throw out the flat Earth hypothesis. Many of my parishioners in the Unitarian Universalist church are flat-Earthers, and I think we can all gain something in our own quests for spiritual knowledge by looking at the world in a way that radically differs from our preconceived notions.

According to one of my congregants, who is a well respected theoretical physicist, there is considerable evidence (based on the thermodymics of black holes) that the universe is indeed two dimensional, with the third dimension serving merely as an illusion. This is known as the holographic principle, and plays an important role in many formulations of string theory. I wouldn't dismiss the Biblical view of a 2D universe as silly when many of the world's top physicists consider it to be a very real possibility.

[Ahimaaz Smith]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

But your explanation doesn't make sense. It is more logical to presume that the universe has always existed rather than some magic, supernatural force outside space and time suddenly decided to create it.

That's like saying it's more logical to presume that I always existed rather than my parents suddenly decided to create me. Anyway, the current consensus among the scientists is that the universe suddenly popped into existence in a Big Bang. We Christians agree.

This is a picture of photons being emitted in a coherent beam from a laser.

I don't dispute that light exists. What I dispute is that light consists of photons. If light is made of particles, then why can a prism bend it as if light were a wave? If you have a picture of a single photon, I'd love to see it, but a picture of a light illuminating some smoke proves nothing about the composition of light.

The laws of thermodynamics suggest that there is in fact no point of creation and that the universe has always existed. Before you try and say that this idea is stupid, do not forget that you believe God has always existed.

Again, both the religious and the scientists agree that the universe has not always existed. Only you seem to believe that it's always been here.

You are no doubt referring to the First Law of Thermodynamics, which states that no energy can be created or destroyed. That was determined by experiments that all took place within the last 150 years, so they have no validity whatsoever to the moment of creation.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics says that disorder (entropy) always increases. If that law is true, and the universe has an infinite age, then at some point in time (call it T) there must have been no entropy whatsoever. But that means that there must have been no increase in entropy from any earlier time to time T, so the Second Law could not be correct! If anything, termodynamics proves that the universe was created. You might want to read up on the subject before you go around making a fool of yourself talking about it.

As for God, since He is omnipotent, laws of thermodynamics do not apply to Him. In fact, those laws were also His creations.

When I hook a lightbulb up to an electrical circuit and switch the circuit on, provided there are no faults in the circuit and there is an adequate power source connected, the light bulb will light up. That is not God creating light, that is the light bulb creating light.

God does not create light every time you flip a switch. God created light in Genesis 1:3. Your lightbulb merely liberates the light that He already created, which was hiding in the lightbulb all along. It's like a wayward heifer--you poke it with a cattle prod, and the electrical shock will cause it to move. That's also why lightbulbs burn out--there is a limited supply hiding in the bulb, and once that's depleted, no more light. A light bulb no more creates light than a cattle prod creates cattle.

If I build a brick house with no windows and go inside, it will be dark. When I open the door, and it is light outside, light will come in.

It is more logical just to accept that the sun casts light. The sun is made of gas going through continous reactions.

That's not more logical at all. The fact that light shines into your house when you opent the door has nothing whatsoever to do with how that light was created. Just like a lightbulb, the Sun releases light that God placed inside it. See Genesis 1:14-16:

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night. And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day...

We can observe gas going through a reaction and producing light by looking at fire. Can we look at God producing light? Can we go up to heaven and find god playing with his giant flashlight? Of course not.

Where in Genesis does it say God has a giant flashlight? That is the logical fallacy of the straw man--you put words in our mouths that we never uttered, then shoot them down. God created the light in the beginning, and he created the processes in the Sun and in wood that release that light for our use. He doesn't wait for you to open your door to create the light.

Where exactly is the edge of the world? Has anyone ever seen it? Do you know anyone who has fallen over the edge?

What do you think explains all of the Bermuda Triangle disappearances? I'm sure it's been seen, but if you get close enough to see it, you'll get sucked over the edge by the falling water and atmosphere. So nobody who has seen it has lived to tell the tale.

I have seen it. In a Disney film.

Ridicule is another logical fallacy; you can't win an argument with ridicule around here.

How can we prove the Earth is round? Simple logic, maths and of course going into space and actually looking at it. When Mars comes enough close to Earth, we are able to see it with the naked eye and it is round.

We are able to see Mars with the naked eye at all times except when it is behind the Earth, the Moon, or the Sun, not just when it is "close enough." The astronomers all say that, too. Only you seem not to believe that.

Mars is a planet, just as Earth is.

You have no proof of that (in fact, Mars is a star, as clearly described in Genesis). Anyway, again you raise a non-sequitur. Whether Mars is round or not has nothing to do with whether Earth is round. Mars has no liquid water on its surface. Does that mean that there are no oceans on the Earth?

When you look through a telescope, you can see the other planets, which are also round.

This is very simple: most celestial objects are round, that doesn't mean that the Earth is round. You can claim optical illusions all you want, but we can observe with our own eyes that light simply does not bend enough to create an illusion of that magnitude.[/quote]Of course you can't--what you see with your own eyes has been bent, so it isn't the true shape. That's why it's an optical illusion. We had to wait for Einstein before we understood the true nature of light. If you want to prove that light can't bend that much, then please show us the relativistic differential equations to prove it.

The fact that the moon is sometimes visible duing the day is yet more evidence of an imperfect design. If God set the moon to rule over the night, why would he allow light to bend so that the moon could be seen during the day?

If God had fixed the position of the Moon relative to the Sun, then there would be no phases of the Moon, so there would be no calendars, so how would the ancient men have known when to plant their crops?

It was an analogy. You know what an analogy is right? If not, look it up.

You seem to use an awful lot of non-sensical analogies in your arguments. Don't you have any direct evidence to substantiate your claims?

So, Sacha, how's that list of papers on global warming coming along? I'm looking forward to our informed, scientific debate.

[Sacha-DG]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

No, that's just a goth dancing in a techno club. We weren't born yesterday, you know!

That's a very clever way of looking at that picture .
But no, its a member of the US army doing an experiment. you know the UD army right? The ones that travelled to the otherside of the world to fight in the middle-east. Oh wait, they should have fallen over the edge. My bad.

So you're saying the earth is a cube now?

It was an analogy. You know what an analogy is right? If not, look it up.

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

I'll do better than that, I'll show you a picture


This is a picture of photons being emitted in a coherent beam from a laser.

No, that's just a goth dancing in a techno club. We weren't born yesterday, you know!

Well if I cut up a piece of paper then it will all fit back together and be flat too. A roadmap is just like the net of a cube. Put it together and it becomes a cube, but unravel it and it looks 2D.

So you're saying the earth is a cube now?

[Sacha-DG]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

[quote=Ahimaaz Smith;135601]

So you admit that you don’t understand it, but still you think it’s OK to knock down the only explanation we have that makes sense. Illogical.

But your explanation doesn't make sense. It is more logical to presume that the universe has always existed rather than some magic, supernatural force outside space and time suddenly decided to create it.

First of all, light is not a particle and these photons are myths. Has anyone ever seen a photon? No (if you have, then, pray enlighten us by drawing a picture). Anyway, every object attracts everything, light and particles, in exactly the same way—Einstein proved that.

I'll do better than that, I'll show you a picture


This is a picture of photons being emitted in a coherent beam from a laser.

This is very simple to understand--when it is daytime in Australia it is nighttime in the UK. As you correctly pointed out, day and night (created on the first day, Genesis 1:5) existed before the Sun existed (created on the fourth day, Genesis 1:14). God made the sun to rule over the daytime, so of course you can't see it at night. You generally only see the Moon at night for the same reason (God set it to rule the night). The fact that sometimes you can see the Moon in daytime is proof that light is bent by the Earth’s gravity.

The fact that the moon is sometimes visible duing the day is yet more evidence of an imperfect design. If God set the moon to rule over the night, why would he allow light to bend so that the moon could be seen during the day?

The laws of thermodynamics have been worked out and tested only in a post-creation world. To apply them to the moment of creation is ridiculous, since there is no way to test what happened at the moment of creation except to read the Book written by the only eyewitness. Anything more isn't

science, it’s mere speculation.

The laws of thermodynamics suggest that there is in fact no point of creation and that the universe has always existed. Before you try and say that this idea is stupid, do not forget that you believe God has always existed.

How do you know that world isn’t really all dark, except for the parts where God removed the dark, which are now light?

When I hook a lightbulb up to an electrical circuit and switch the circuit on, provided there are no faults in the circuit and there is an adequate power source connected, the light bulb will light up. That is not God creating light, that is the light bulb creating light. When I remove the power source, the light will turn off.
If I build a brick house with no windows and go inside, it will be dark. When I open the door, and it is light outside, light will come in. Nothing has changed except the door's position. God did not change it, I did.
It is more logical just to accept that the sun casts light. The sun is made of gas going through continous reactions. We can observe gas going through a reaction and producing light by looking at fire. Can we look at God producing light? Can we go up to heaven and find god playing with his giant flashlight? Of course not.

(2) Because there are waves and hills between you and the ship. The farther away the ship is, the higher the highest wave or hill in between will be, as a matter of probability. It's more likely there's a 20 foot wave--enough to block your view of the hull, but not of the mast, of most ships--between you and a ship hundreds of miles offshore than between you and a ship only one mile offshore, so you're more likely to see the hull of a nearby ship than of one that is far off. An intervening wave will block your view of the entire ship long before a ship reaches the falls at the edge of the world.

(3) It does disappear if it falls off the edge, but that's a long, long way away.

That is an optical illusion. If you do the calculations, you’ll see that the apparent curvature of the Earth is completely explained by the tendency of the Earth’s gravity to bend light from far away more than it bends light from a nearby source.

Where exactly is the edge of the world? Has anyone ever seen it? Do you know anyone who has fallen over the edge?
I have seen it. In a Disney film.

How can we prove the Earth is round? Simple logic, maths and of course going into space and actually looking at it. When Mars comes enough close to Earth, we are able to see it with the naked eye and it is round. Mars is a planet, just as Earth is. When you look through a telescope, you can see the other planets, which are also round. You can claim optical illusions all you want, but we can observe with our own eyes that light simply does not bend enough to create an illusion of that magnitude.

The proof of a flat Earth by maps is easy enough--take roadmap map and carefully cut it into smaller pieces. When you put the pieces back together, they will fit together perfectly.

If the Earth were spherical, the pieces of these small maps couldn't possibly fit together (since the map is flat, but we're assuming that the Earth is spherical). So the Earth can't be spherical.

Well if I cut up a piece of paper then it will all fit back together and be flat too. A roadmap is just like the net of a cube. Put it together and it becomes a cube, but unravel it and it looks 2D.

[Stranger]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

A moderator had changed my post, my intention was not biblegateway.com. It was flatearthsociety.com

thank you LingBling for the clarification.

[Stranger]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

so upon reading about the flat earth theory, i would like to pose another question to the Pastors of the Landover Baptist Chruch. are these beliefs an accurate representation of your own? or do your's differ in some respects?

[LyingDingDong]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

www.biblegateway.com

that means nothing to me.

A moderator had changed my post, my intention was not biblegateway.com. It was flatearthsociety.com

[LyingDingDong]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

flatearthsociety.org

I'm sorry, flatearthsociety.com

[Stranger]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

www.biblegateway.com

that means nothing to me.

[LyingDingDong]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

So, a couple of questions, i know answers may be repeated, but please answer them

if the earth is flat, where is the end of the earth?

if it's at the horizon then what if there is land up to the point of the horizon?

if there is a set edge of the world, do you know where it is and how much room around the known world does it give?

i just need some clarification.

https://www.biblegateway.com

[Stranger]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

So, a couple of questions, i know answers may be repeated, but please answer them

if the earth is flat, where is the end of the earth?

if it's at the horizon then what if there is land up to the point of the horizon?

if there is a set edge of the world, do you know where it is and how much room around the known world does it give?

i just need some clarification.

[Ahimaaz Smith]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

"Well of course the earth isn't shaped like a penis because if it was then America would be covered in hair."

Why do you hate America? Are you one of those damned US haters from the penis-shaped country of Sweden?

Or maybe one of the Godless Finns from the--well, you get the idea.

Those people turn to a supernatrual explanation because it is not something we are currently able to explain.

So you admit that you don’t understand it, but still you think it’s OK to knock down the only explanation we have that makes sense. Illogical.

I stated that light is composed of photons, particles of zero resting mass. I also made the point that gravity is the attraction between two masses. Explain how an object of mass, such as the Earth, attracts particles of no mass via gravity.

First of all, light is not a particle and these photons are myths. Has anyone ever seen a photon? No (if you have, then, pray enlighten us by drawing a picture). Anyway, every object attracts everything, light and particles, in exactly the same way—Einstein proved that.

if it's by the whole gravity is the force of attraction between two objects, then if you fell off one side of a flat earth, wouldn't you just end up on the other side?

You'd wind up in Hell. In your case, you might as well jump right now.

An arc minute is equal to one sixtieth of one degree. As we know, there are 60 seconds in a minute, so a second is one sixtieth of a minute. Therefore, an arc second is equal to one 3600th of a degree.

That means that the length of one arc second of a circle exactly equals 1/3,888,000th of the circle's diameter. Got it.

While the sun shines in Australia, it does not shine on the the UK.

This is very simple to understand--when it is daytime in Australia it is nighttime in the UK. As you correctly pointed out, day and night (created on the first day, Genesis 1:5) existed before the Sun existed (created on the fourth day, Genesis 1:14). God made the sun to rule over the daytime, so of course you can't see it at night. You generally only see the Moon at night for the same reason (God set it to rule the night). The fact that sometimes you can see the Moon in daytime is proof that light is bent by the Earth’s gravity.

Even though would have been impossible, not only due to the laws of thermodynamics, but largely to the fact that there was no light source to give off light, and you cannot create darkness, only remove light.

The laws of thermodynamics have been worked out and tested only in a post-creation world. To apply them to the moment of creation is ridiculous, since there is no way to test what happened at the moment of creation except to read the Book written by the only eyewitness. Anything more isn't science, it’s mere speculation.

How do you know that world isn’t really all dark, except for the parts where God removed the dark, which are now light? I don’t have time to go into the quantum physics involved (you can read about it here), but trust me, there is no difference in the equations between a dark world with light and a light world with darkness.

If the Earth is flat, as you mormons proclaim, why is it that when a ship sails into the horizon, it slowly disappears. First the ship itself then the mast until it is completely out of sight? If it were flat, it would disappear suddenly as it fell of the edge.

(1) We are not Mormons.

(2) Because there are waves and hills between you and the ship. The farther away the ship is, the higher the highest wave or hill in between will be, as a matter of probability. It's more likely there's a 20 foot wave--enough to block your view of the hull, but not of the mast, of most ships--between you and a ship hundreds of miles offshore than between you and a ship only one mile offshore, so you're more likely to see the hull of a nearby ship than of one that is far off. An intervening wave will block your view of the entire ship long before a ship reaches the falls at the edge of the world.

(3) It does disappear if it falls off the edge, but that's a long, long way away.

Have you guys gone up in a plane? you can actually see the curviture of the earth.

That is an optical illusion. If you do the calculations, you’ll see that the apparent curvature of the Earth is completely explained by the tendency of the Earth’s gravity to bend light from far away more than it bends light from a nearby source.

This is all explained in Dr. Ernest Ville’s excellent fourteen volume monograph, Creation Science: Convergence of Evidence and Faith.

I've read that the words' latin roots stem from the fact that during the time of the Roman Empire, men were required to hold their "male bits" when they gave a testimony

Ridiculous. The English language was created at the Tower of Babel, just like all other languages. God sometimes reused parts from one language to fill in blanks in another, leading to coincidences like this:

See Genesis 11:9: Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

(Confound means that there are overlaps.) Assuming your puerile story is true, which I highly doubt.

Are you retards really arguing if earth is really flat or not?... Idiots.

Who's the bigger retard, the retard who argues an idea, or the retard who feels compelled to jump into an argument that he believes is retarded to tell everyone else how retarded they are? However, I agree with you, the debate has been settled, and the Earth is unequivocally flat.

if the earth is flat, then why can't cartographers create a to-scale replica of the earth on a piece of paper?

Because the Jews who control the publishing industry won't let them print a realistic atlas.

The proof of a flat Earth by maps is easy enough--take roadmap map and carefully cut it into smaller pieces. When you put the pieces back together, they will fit together perfectly. If the Earth were spherical, the pieces of these small maps couldn't possibly fit together (since the map is flat, but we're assuming that the Earth is spherical). So the Earth can't be spherical.

Are you one of these hippies who think the Bible is mostly symbolic? If that is so, then how do you judge which verses are "metaphors" and which ones are literal?

A good question, which nobody seems to have bothered to answer, because they can’t.

[Stranger]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

Gravity bends light, right? Ask any Physicists this Snotty, they'll confirm this. So if the earth was round the light would just bend around the earth and we would have daylight even in the middle of the night.

Yes gravity bends light, but the object has to be very dense to cause light to bend, and the earth is not dense dense enough to cause light to bend in on itself to create eternal daylight.

Now if we go off the pretense that the earth is flat, how do you explain gravity? and if it's by the whole gravity is the force of attraction between two objects, then if you fell off one side of a flat earth, wouldn't you just end up on the other side?

also if the earth is flat, then why can't cartographers create a to-scale replica of the earth on a piece of paper?

I would like to know what you think.

[sokrateez]

Re: Flat Earth? Hell Yes!

this is just hilarious, first of all you think the world is flat and you beleive there is actually a god...............NICE!!!!!!