[crazychick]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

Of course, not every word or deed was written. Only the parts necessary for Salvation®.

I won't pretend like I know anything about the bible, but I must say this post of Levi really confuses me. Why would things be left out of a book you all claim to live word by word? What if important things were left out? Would that not make your christianity "faulty" and wanting!?

[Sacred Heart]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

Of course, not every word or deed was written. Only the parts necessary for Salvation®.

The Bible does not make this claim. You assume it.

Even if it did, I return to the paradox of my little piece of paper, which makes the same claim.

Luke fully admits his writings are not first hand accounts. There may have been information he didn't know at the time of writing Luke that he learned later by the time of Acts.

Luke 1:1-3
Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

Wouldn't it be terrible if he learned something after writing Acts as well? Of course, how would you know? You don't have anything but the Bible.

This should show you that this was a well known saying of Christ. Yet, it was not included in any of the Gospels.... hmm...

The passage is worded as a reminder, "...and keep in mind the words of the Lord Jesus who himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'" Any early Christian would have already known this saying of Christ. But how could they if they were practicing Sola Scriptura?

Really?

Ephesians 4:11-14

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Your idiocy always brightens my day

This verse clearly says that Jesus gave "apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers" for the purpose of perfecting of the saints, for the work of ministry and for edifying the body of Christ. It does not say that he provided them with a Bible or a written Word. In fact, it would seem to say that these teachers alone are enough keep us from false doctrines and evil teachings, does it not?
[/QUOTE]

I won't pretend like I know anything about the bible, but I must say this post of Levi really confuses me. Why would things be left out of a book you all claim to live word by word? What if important things were left out? Would that not make your christianity "faulty" and wanting!?

This is true, that with just the Bible alone, Christians are at a loss of the full teachings of Christ. However, through the unbroken succession of the Priesthood, the Catholic Church bears ALL teachings of Christ; those absolutely necessary for salvation, such as Baptism, and those that are simply gonna happen to you anyway, like purgatory.

Haha, will I have a laugh when you landovers die and end up in Purgatory and have no idea what's going on!!!

[Levi Jones]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

The Bible does not make this claim. You assume it.

I assume nothing. It is an established fact. Your "church" does things that directly contradict the Word and asserts its primacy over the Bible. Your leaders even refuse to accept prima scriptura. That's how jealously they still cling to their power over their members.

That's not a Church, friend. That is a cult.

Wouldn't it be terrible if he learned something after writing Acts as well? Of course, how would you know? You don't have anything but the Bible.

You know people living from the time of Christ? You are honestly asserting that my LORD would allow his inerrant Word to man to be flawed? That's your excuse

This should show you that this was a well known saying of Christ. Yet, it was not included in any of the Gospels.... hmm...

What is your point? It was written down in another book of the Bible.

A few pages back, you were arguing that we don't follow all the Bible i.e. the deuterocanon. Now you think we should be limited to the Gospels? What kind of self contradictory whack job are you?

The passage is worded as a reminder, "...and keep in mind the words of the Lord Jesus who himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'" Any early Christian would have already known this saying of Christ. But how could they if they were practicing Sola Scriptura?

This is the most idiotic point you have brought up yet. Luke learned the saying directly from one of the Apostles. Early Christians could have just gone and seen the Apostles or spoken to someone who just did.

Besides, who is God going to speak to in this day and age? Little Adolph Benedict on his gilded throne? Last time he spoke through a simple carpenter.

This verse clearly says that Jesus gave "apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers" for the purpose of perfecting of the saints, for the work of ministry and for edifying the body of Christ. It does not say that he provided them with a Bible or a written Word. In fact, it would seem to say that these teachers alone are enough keep us from false doctrines and evil teachings, does it not?

It clearly says to not be blown by the wind of doctrine lest they become fooled by devious men (like the pope.) It's clearly says to stick with what they had been taught. I see your reading comprehension skills are as poor as your debating skills.

This is true, that with just the Bible alone, Christians are at a loss of the full teachings of Christ. However, through the unbroken succession of the Priesthood,

There was nothing that even was close to a unified Church until the romans talked the Franks into killing off the Arians and other rival Christian factions. There was not even an idea of making rome the headquarters of the Church until the lecherous murderer Damasus came up with the idea.

The blood of millions is on hands of the cult you have the audacity to argue in favor of on a Christian forum.

the Catholic Church bears ALL teachings of Christ; those absolutely necessary for salvation, such as Baptism, and those that are simply gonna happen to you anyway, like purgatory.

And many that directly contradict Scripture. I can't believe you can sit there and argue in favor of the word of man overriding Biblical authority. Will you stick with the catlick church when it decides to start ordaining woman and homosexuals?

Haha, will I have a laugh when you landovers die and end up in Purgatory and have no idea what's going on!!!

Purgatory, another catlick invention 1000+ years after Christ.

I haven't seen a catlick take a beating like this since the notre dame football team last season.

Another flawless victory for Jesus.

[James Peter]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

Haha, will I have a laugh when you landovers die and end up in Purgatory and have no idea what's going on!!!

Hey they brother! Fellow Catholic here, I have gone through the same attempts at arguing with these people as you have, it's always great to see another REAL Christian in here. But I was a bit disturbed by this comment to say the least.

Nobody in Landover will end up in Purgatory! The teaching of our Church is quite clear - only Catholics can be saved, and everyone in Purgatory will eventually get out. All non-Catholics, including Protestant so-called Christians (they are not really Christian) are going straight to hell. Of course, I will be laughing as God All-Mighty tortures those heathens forever

[Levi Jones]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

Hey they brother! Fellow Catholic here, I have gone through the same attempts at arguing with these people as you have,

You are just another catlick greasestain statistic for Jesus like your contemporary.

At least, you have a few redeeming qualities, I will reluctantly concede.

[Lola Handcock]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

Hey they brother! Fellow Catholic here, I have gone through the same attempts at arguing with these people as you have, it's always great to see another REAL Christian in here. But I was a bit disturbed by this comment to say the least.

Nobody in Landover will end up in Purgatory! The teaching of our Church is quite clear - only Catholics can be saved, and everyone in Purgatory will eventually get out. All non-Catholics, including Protestant so-called Christians (they are not really Christian) are going straight to hell. Of course, I will be laughing as God All-Mighty tortures those heathens forever

Christians will end up where ?
And the catlick butt pirates will be where ?

Get serious Jesus does not love homer catliks its off to hell for ya.

[Levi Jones]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

I won't pretend like I know anything about the bible, but I must say this post of Levi really confuses me. Why would things be left out of a book you all claim to live word by word? What if important things were left out? Would that not make your christianity "faulty" and wanting!?

Do you really need to know every single thing our LORD did? Of course not!
Do we need to know every time our LORD went to the privy room? Maybe they should have written down his conversations about the weather with his Apostles.


Besides, John the Greek, wrote his Gospel nearly a century after our LORD ascended to heaven. While it has the most beautiful prose of all the Gospels, it too, was not a firsthand account. Though, there can be no doubt it is Holy inspired truth!

[Lola Handcock]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

Brother Levi.

Is Faith what these sinners are missing ?

[Levi Jones]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

Brother Levi.

Is Faith what these sinners are missing ?

Naturally, Sister Lola. They just need faith in the Holy KJV1611. Then, and only then, can the Holy Spirit can truly enter them and wash them clean as the white white snow. Praise Jesus!

After that, they must immediately get into a congregation of fellow True Christians™ and set up a tithing plan as our Lord commands us to.

You aren't going to deny Jesus his cut, Ms. Lola.

[Sacred Heart]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

I assume nothing. It is an established fact.

Yet, you sadly offer no evidence. Zero. I would have right to declare your argument crushed underfoot right here, right now. As you have nothing to offer but your own false presumptions. Do not waste my time.

Nowhere does the Bible claim that it is the only Word of God. It is an unbiblical creation of Martin Luther.

You know people living from the time of Christ? You are honestly asserting that my LORD would allow his inerrant Word to man to be flawed? That's your excuse

I define the "innerant Word" to include the teachings of the Church. When it is all put together, it is inerrant. But just as you cannot have a religion based solely off the Gospel of John, you cannot have a "true Christian" religion without the teachings of the Church. Otherwise, you deny half of God's word.

If you continue to fail to offer any evidence whatsoever, yet you still rise up here to "debate" you are simply making a fool of yourself.

What is your point? It was written down in another book of the Bible. A few pages back, you were arguing that we don't follow all the Bible i.e. the deuterocanon. Now you think we should be limited to the Gospels? What kind of self contradictory whack job are you?

Did you actually read my whole post?

The point, friend, is that not one of these writers saw that they must include everything saying of Christ in their writings. And the reason is that these teachings were primarily passed on by ORAL. SPOKEN. WORD.

The Bible does not teach sola scriptura. You have yet to even try to defend it. Because you know that it is not taught by scripture. And the sooner you admit that, the sooner we can move on

This is the most idiotic point you have brought up yet. Luke learned the saying directly from one of the Apostles. Early Christians could have just gone and seen the Apostles or spoken to someone who just did.

I would just like to quote you again because you support so beautifully the idea of Sacred Tradition

"Early Christians could have just gone and seen the Apostles or spoken to someone who just did" -Levi Jones, Biblical Imbecile.

That's exactly what the early Christians would have done. Sought out the spoken word of those entrusted with His Word, such as the Apostles or their early successors. They would not have picked up their KJVs and tried to personally interpret scripture. Neither would the apostles or their early successors. It was all Oral Tradition.

Besides, who is God going to speak to in this day and age? Little Adolph Benedict on his gilded throne? Last time he spoke through a simple carpenter.

God's commandments are also in the Doctrines and Dogmas of the Catholic Church.

Acts 15:28 - Apostles speak with the voice of the Holy Spirit
1 Timothy 3:15 - Church is called the "pillar and foundation of truth"

It clearly says to not be blown by the wind of doctrine lest they become fooled by devious men (like the pope.) It's clearly says to stick with what they had been taught. I see your reading comprehension skills are as poor as your debating skills.

Stick with what they had been taught????

Do you need me to read it to you?

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be nomore children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; (Ephesians 4:11-14)

This clearly says that Jesus "GAVE" us "apostles... prophets... teachers" etc. "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ"... "[SO] THAT we will no longer be children, tossed to and fro" and etc.

Note: He did not give us any written Word, but Apostles and teachers to SPEAK the Word to us. That is the single meaning behind this verse.

I have simply used the quote itself to refute your pathetic argument.

The sooner you admit this, the sooner we can move on.

***Off-Topic attempts to change the subject, deleted ***

As soon as you come up with some REAL defense of Sola Scriptura, then we'll talk. Don't post until then please.

[Lola Handcock]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

Amen
Brother Levi ,You sir are an inspiration to all!


Praise Jesus for he is the LIGHT in my life.

[Levi Jones]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

Yet, you sadly offer no evidence. Zero. I would have right to declare your argument crushed underfoot right here, right now. As you have nothing to offer but your own false presumptions. Do not waste my time.

My own presumptions? Only the ones backed up by the greatest thinkers of the Renaissance. The first people to break free from the catlick imposed Dark Ages.

Nowhere does the Bible claim that it is the only Word of God. It is an unbiblical creation of Martin Luther.

You claim this, yet you still can't find any credibility for the authority of your Little Adolph Benedict. There is none. You can't even defend that point without launching into a non sequitur tirade on Luther or sola scriptura.

You can't defend the fact that your leaders insist on traditions that fly in the face of Scripture!

We don't need anymore kicking and screaming rants from you. You have done nothing but pout and whine throughout this entire thing.

Just answer the question, papist scum.

When the papists start ordaining female and homosexual priests, will you still follow them?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

TIA

[James Peter]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

Christians will end up where ?
And the catlick butt pirates will be where ?

Get serious Jesus does not love homer catliks its off to hell for ya.

Haha, Protestants are not Christians. You are all children of the devil, and yes, you will be going to hell along with the five billion other non-Catholics, and a large percentage of fallen Catholics who die with unconfessed mortal sins! GLORY TO GOD IN THE HIGHEST!

[Sacred Heart]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

My own presumptions? Only the ones backed up by the greatest thinkers of the Renaissance.

Oh goody. So we get your presumptions, along with the presumptions of some of the most confused people in history? Why can't you offer some facts? Hint: They don't exist!!

Allow me to show you some of the reasoning behind one of your great "thinkers":

"You tell me what a great fuss the Papists are making because the word 'alone' does not appear in the text of Paul. If your Papist makes such an unnecesary row about the word 'alone', say right out to him: "Dr. Martin Luther will have it so", and say: 'Papists and asses are one in the same thing.' I will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is reason enough. I know very well that the word 'alone' is not in the Latin or Greek text, it was not necessary for the Papists to teach me that." - Martin Luther

You claim this, yet you still can't find any credibility for the authority of your Little Adolph Benedict. There is none. You can't even defend that point without launching into a non sequitur tirade on Luther or sola scriptura.

I have in fact, already answered this question. However, my post was infracted and deleted.

Just for you, Levi, I will attempt to explain this again. However, should this post be edited I will assume this as a failure on the part of your landover theology to rebuke the claim.

The first thing we must recognize is that Scripture alone is paradoxical. Scripture itself cannot claim that is the Word of God.

For instance, if Scripture is all we have, then we must rely on its own opinion that it is the Word of God. Furthermore, if we rely on Scripture alone, there is no way of knowing what is indeed the Word of God, as there is no “Inspired Table of Contents”. Thus, if you dug up this manuscript saying:

“This is the Holy Word of God. You must do as this says, because it is the Word of God. You know that this is the Word of God, because you are supposed to believe what the Word of God says, this is the Word of God, and I am telling you that I am the Word of God, and because you are supposed to do what the Word of God says, you must do as I say, because this is the Word of God and believe that I am the Word of God, because that is what I, the Word of God, has just told you that I am.” (Paradox of Sola Scriptura 1:1)

That is what you claim Scripture tells you. That it is the Word of God, so you must do what it says. Factually, paradoxically, logically and biblically this is errant. There must be something outside of Scripture to tell you that it the Word of God. There must be an equally inspired Word of God to tell you that the Bible is the Word, otherwise you have developed an unbelievable paradox. You need the spoken Oral Tradition, an equally inspired Word of God, passed on by the Apostles to declare that this is the Word of God. You need a Church, established by Christ to infallibly declare that this is the Word of God. There is only one Church that fits all the criteria of Christ’s Church listed in the Bible, the Roman Catholic Church.

As Bobby_Joe said, it is an act of faith. It is the foundation for our religion. There is nothing else that stands to this day that could bear the claim that, "We were there when Scripture was compiled" or in fact, "We compiled it".

The early Church was not thinking about establishing a bible. Furthermore, they could not gather publicly as they would all be killed by the Romans. So they had all these writings floating around including many genuine Christian writings but also forgeries preaching gnostic ideas. So when the Roman Persecutions ended, the Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church. It is by their stamp of authority that you know the table of contents of your NT and by NONE OTHER. Their canon is the official Word of God, determining alone what books are to be included in the Bible.

Oral Tradition and Sacred Scripture are like two legs supporting the same body. They do not contradict each other. However, they are not completely identical either, each legs bears a few freckles that vary from the other, and are both necessary for the Church to stand. One cannot exist without the other. They work together to establish the One True Church.

For example, here is the Scripture supporting the infallibility of the Church:

Matthew 28:20 - Jesus tells them: I am with you always
Luke 10:16 - speaks with Christ's own voice
John 14:26 - Holy Spirit is to teach and remind them of everything
John 16:13 - guided by the Holy Spirit into all Truth
Acts 15:28 - Apostles speak with the voice of the Holy Spirit
1 Timothy 3:15 - Church is called the "pillar and foundation of truth"
1 John 2:27 - anointing of the Holy Spirit remains in you

And here, the Church supporting Sacred Scripture:

CC 111 But since Sacred Scripture is inspired...
CC 124 "The Word of God, which is the power of God for salvation to everyone who has faith, is set forth and displays its power in a most wonderful way in the writings of the New Testament" which hand on the ultimate truth of God's Revelation.

Thus the paradox of Sola Scriptura is removed.

Believe for a moment, that the Catholic Church and the Priests are indeed the successors of the Apostles. Would not their authority be the one to trust?

You can't defend the fact that your leaders insist on traditions that fly in the face of Scripture!

No doctrine of faith contradicts Scripture, they work together.

Just answer the question, papist scum.

When the papists start ordaining female and homosexual priests, will you still follow them?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

No to ordaining female ministers. But their are clearly already homosexual priests. However, the ones that live in chastity are still recognized respectable priests.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

The first thing we must recognize is that Scripture alone is paradoxical. Scripture itself cannot claim that is the Word of God.

For instance, if Scripture is all we have, then we must rely on its own opinion that it is the Word of God. Furthermore, if we rely on Scripture alone, there is no way of knowing what is indeed the Word of God, as there is no “Inspired Table of Contents”. Thus, if you dug up this manuscript saying:

“This is the Holy Word of God. You must do as this says, because it is the Word of God. You know that this is the Word of God, because you are supposed to believe what the Word of God says, this is the Word of God, and I am telling you that I am the Word of God, and because you are supposed to do what the Word of God says, you must do as I say, because this is the Word of God and believe that I am the Word of God, because that is what I, the Word of God, has just told you that I am.” (Paradox of Sola Scriptura 1:1)

That is what you claim Scripture tells you. That it is the Word of God, so you must do what it says. Factually, paradoxically, logically and biblically this is errant. There must be something outside of Scripture to tell you that it the Word of God. There must be an equally inspired Word of God to tell you that the Bible is the Word, otherwise you have developed an unbelievable paradox. You need the spoken Oral Tradition, an equally inspired Word of God, passed on by the Apostles to declare that this is the Word of God. You need a Church, established by Christ to infallibly declare that this is the Word of God. There is only one Church that fits all the criteria of Christ’s Church listed in the Bible, the Roman Catholic Church.

Your solution solves nothing. You've mentioned before that there must be another source that says the Bible is the Word of God. But, I told you that there is no higher authority than the Bible so it doesn't need another source. Scripture must say it itself is the Word of God, because is there anything higher and more authoritative than the Word of God?

Also, let's assume that there was another source that claimed the Bible is true. What is your criteria for such source? Landover Baptist Church says the Bible is true. But you disregard our testimony.

So, let's say we found some "Table of Contents" like you said. The problem is, this brings up another paradox. A person can ask "How do we know the Table of Contents is true?" Wouldn't this Table of Contents require an outside source to back it up? Even if such Table of Contents existed, wouldn't it undergo the same skeptical scrutiny that the Bible endures?

So then, let's say we have an outside source that attests to this Table of Contents which attests to the reality of the Bible. Then this outside source can also be viewed with the same skepticism you gave the Bible and the Table of Contents.

And so on, and so on, and so on...

Your Table of Contents argument is a phantom. It solves nothing and is needless.