[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

You'll have to forgive me if I am missing your point here. But is what you're saying that the Council of Rome was not what declared the official canon of Scripture but rather this occurred 100 years later.

Who cares about what is some council of men did? It was God Himself who decided what is cannon in The Bible as God says so (somewhere) in the KJV1611. You make the Bible something concocted by a bunch of old guys with a political agenda.

Frankly as a Christian I have no time for some wack job who goes around claiming what is in the Bible or not because he has some fancy hat and sits in the big chair. How anyone can buy into this Pope nonsense is beyond me. Clearly God told King James the 1st of England what the Bible should be and that is that.

Weren't you trying to prove somehow that the Catholic Church did not decided what was canonical? Somehow wasn't this supposed to disprove the Deuterocanon?

Deuterocanon is a bunch of Jewish texts. Of course they are not in the Christian Bible silly. Duh!

[Sacred Heart]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

Not to change the subject or anything... but can I just post a question?

How do we know, you or I or anyone for that matter, how do we KNOW that the Bible as we have it is complete as we have it? To my understanding, there is no divinely inspired table of contents yes? So how can anyone know that everything we need to know is in the Holy Scriptures?

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

Not to change the subject or anything... but can I just post a question?

There are no bad questions friend, only hellbound God mocking questioners.

BTW we accept your concession of defeat and admission that Catholic doctrine is WRONG.

How do we know, you or I or anyone for that matter, how do we KNOW that the Bible as we have it is complete as we have it? To my understanding, there is no divinely inspired table of contents yes? So how can anyone know that everything we need to know is in the Holy Scriptures?

It is says so in The Bible, KJV1611, friend that it is complete.

[Sacred Heart]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

It is says so in The Bible, KJV1611, friend that it is complete.

That is exactly what I wanted you to say.

Tell me, if I took a piece of paper, and wrote on it, "This is the complete Word of God, so you must do as I say because this is God's Word. And you must believe that I am God's Word because you are supposed to believe what God's Word tells you and I am God's Word and I am telling you to believe me."

You ever heard of a paradox? Well this is one.

You need something OUTSIDE of Scripture (Oral Tradition!! )to tell you to believe in it. Otherwise, your religion has no foundation except the religion itself.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

That is exactly what I wanted you to say.

Tell me, if I took a piece of paper, and wrote on it, "This is the complete Word of God, so you must do as I say because this is God's Word. And you must believe that I am God's Word because you are supposed to believe what God's Word tells you and I am God's Word and I am telling you to believe me."

Friend,

Your writing is not the same as The Bible. With your reasoning we should be listing to crazy men who live in caves in the desert and talk to invisible men. Your whole suggestion is ridiculous.

[Sacred Heart]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

Friend,

Your writing is not the same as The Bible. With your reasoning we should be listing to crazy men who live in caves in the desert and talk to invisible men. Your whole suggestion is ridiculous.

Your claim is that the Bible makes the same claim as my little piece of paper.

Your claim is that because the Bible claims to be the Word of God, then we must believe it.

Your claim therefore, would apply also to my little piece of paper. Because it now claims to be God's Word as well.

What is your Bible? It is nothing but ground up trees and ink bound together in a book claiming to be the word of God. And you believe it for no other reason than the fact that it makes that claim.

However, my little piece of paper is of the same substance and making the same claim. Why do you not believe it to be the Word of God?

The reason is because you have grown up with the idea (just as every other Christian has) that the bible is the Word of God. You have always elevated it to that status without any real grounds. You have always accepted the Bible to be so and that nothing else could ever be so. But in fact, the only reason YOU have elevated the Scriptures to such a level, is because the Scriptures ask you to do so.

Paradox.

[Sacred Heart]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

You need an outside influence to elevate Scripture to that level.

You need Oral Tradition.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

The reason is because you have grown up with the idea (just as every other Christian has) that the bible is the Word of God. You have always elevated it to that status without any real grounds. You have always accepted the Bible to be so and that nothing else could ever be so. But in fact, the only reason YOU have elevated the Scriptures to such a level, is because the Scriptures ask you to do so.

Paradox.

Well lets follow threw on your paradox Mr Catholic; if The Bible is just a scrap of paper for men to edit at will what bases do we have for our faith? By your reasoning scripture is just work of powerful men with agendas and not God's message to creation. At that point I mine as well put on a penis shaped hat and call myself Pope too because we are into some Post-Modernist everything is right twilight zone.

No, The Bible has to be The Word of God and a product of His will or there no bases for Christianity.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

Your claim is that the Bible makes the same claim as my little piece of paper.

Your claim is that because the Bible claims to be the Word of God, then we must believe it.

Your claim therefore, would apply also to my little piece of paper. Because it now claims to be God's Word as well.

What is your Bible? It is nothing but ground up trees and ink bound together in a book claiming to be the word of God. And you believe it for no other reason than the fact that it makes that claim.

However, my little piece of paper is of the same substance and making the same claim. Why do you not believe it to be the Word of God?

The reason is because you have grown up with the idea (just as every other Christian has) that the bible is the Word of God. You have always elevated it to that status without any real grounds. You have always accepted the Bible to be so and that nothing else could ever be so. But in fact, the only reason YOU have elevated the Scriptures to such a level, is because the Scriptures ask you to do so.

Paradox.

I have heard this argument 100 times before and usually from 5 and 6 year olds. You reduce the Word of The Lord to its natural elements.

You will be aware of the hundreds of autobiographies that abound in public libraries. Many of them are of characters whose lives have been forgotten other than in these tomes. You would not say that these are lies and inventions, would you?

You would say they are self-referential though.

But does that make them lies? No.

We hear of those “inspired by God”. Now some may merely be experiencing a brain seizure of some sort, but these are readily distinguishable from those whose words contain credible reports of events.

Now KJV is inspired by God and has nothing incredible at all within its covers.

Did you read the above? Did you weep? Are you ready to accept Jesus?


As far as oral tradition is concerned, I ask you only to consider "Chinese whispering" - entirely unreliable.

[Sacred Heart]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

Well lets follow threw on your paradox Mr Catholic; if The Bible is just a scrap of paper for men to edit at will what bases do we have for our faith? By your reasoning scripture is just work of powerful men with agendas and not God's message to creation. At that point I mine as well put on a penis shaped hat and call myself Pope too because we are into some Post-Modernist everything is right twilight zone.

No, The Bible has to be The Word of God and a product of His will or there no bases for Christianity.

I agree. The Bible must be the Word of God. But not simply because the Word of God itself claims to be the Word of God, as otherwise we have no bounds for which to limit our religion.

Whether you know and accept it or not, it was the authority of the Catholic Church that raised scripture to that level. The Church held it at that level because of Apostolic Tradition and Authority.

And it was through the work of men (Guided by the HS) that Scripture was defined and established. And the men that God chose to work through was indeed, The Roman Catholic Church.

However, because we have to recognize the fact that we simply cannot accept the authority of scripture simply because scripture says to, we must also by default accept the authority of whatever declared scripture to be authoritative.

Even if you would like to argue that it is not the Catholic Church that gives authority to scripture, can we agree that some other factor must be involved to remove the paradox?

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

And it was through the work of men (Guided by the HS) that Scripture was defined and established. And the men that God chose to work through was indeed, The Roman Catholic Church.

PROVE The old men in dresses who run the Roman Catholic Church are guided by The Holy Spirit.

[Sacred Heart]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

I have heard this argument 100 times before and usually from 5 and 6 year olds. You reduce the Word of The Lord to its natural elements.

You will be aware of the hundreds of autobiographies that abound in public libraries. Many of them are of characters whose lives have been forgotten other than in these tomes. You would not say that these are lies and inventions, would you?

You would say they are self-referential though.

But does that make them lies? No.

And there is a reason for that. There are outside sources claiming them to be authentic. As if we found some manuscript detailing Atlantis, we would not believe it to be true until something else was found to support it.

Thus, Scripture alone simply cannot support itself.

Sola Scriptura simple cannot stand.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

There is no paradox. The Bible has to be self-referential because it's the Word of God(c). Nothing comes higher or more authoritive than that. Therefore, the Bible is true because it's self-referential.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

I agree. The Bible must be the Word of God. But not simply because the Word of God itself claims to be the Word of God, as otherwise we have no bounds for which to limit our religion.

Whether you know and accept it or not, it was the authority of the Catholic Church that raised scripture to that level. The Church held it at that level because of Apostolic Tradition and Authority.

And it was through the work of men (Guided by the HS) that Scripture was defined and established. And the men that God chose to work through was indeed, The Roman Catholic Church.

However, because we have to recognize the fact that we simply cannot accept the authority of scripture simply because scripture says to, we must also by default accept the authority of whatever declared scripture to be authoritative.

Even if you would like to argue that it is not the Catholic Church that gives authority to scripture, can we agree that some other factor must be involved to remove the paradox?

This is hilarious. You give the Catholic church far too much credit friend. Are you ever remotely aware that the KJV1611 is based on a 9th Century Bible found in a Greek Orthodox monastery and your Catholic New Jerusalem Bible is based on a another (false) 6th century manuscript found at St Catherine's Monetary at Mt Sinai?

Good going guy; you just made the Greek Orthodox Church the arbitrator of what is scripture. But I forget, you are ignorant of any of those pesky pre-Catholic Christian traditions

As the pastor said; The Bible is prouf enough since it is the World of God(r) END of discussion.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God?

And there is a reason for that. There are outside sources claiming them to be authentic. As if we found some manuscript detailing Atlantis, we would not believe it to be true until something else was found to support it.

Thus, Scripture alone simply cannot support itself.

Sola Scriptura simple cannot stand.

Outside sources of reference are of a higher authority. In other words, the outside source claiming an autobiography is authentic is of more authority than the autobiography alone.

Same goes for the Atlantis manuscript. Another document which vouched for it has more authority than the manuscript. On the other hand, you can have lower authority as well..."My neighbor Dave said that...".

For every claim, you have to back it up with a higher authority. If your neighbor Dave made a claim about heart disease, you might not be inclined to believe him. But if the Surgeon General made a claim, you would.

Now, since Scripture is the Word of God(r) and the highest authority there is, there can't be anything higher in authority outside of it to vouch for it. All that can be is lower authority (testimonies, etc.).