[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

food-for-oil programme anyone? (and AustralianWheatBoard yee-haw!)

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

This is wrong. Saddam lead the Iraqi Ba'atist Patry, which is a pan-Arab socialist movement. At the time of the US invasion, Iraq was subject to US sanctions, and clearly no market for US goods.

Go back in time a little farther.

We armed and trained Saddam's military. You see, Iraq was a US ally before the decision to invade Kuwait.

Said decision was green-lighted by US diplomats, who then turned 180 degrees and attacked Iraq upon discovering that Kuwait didn't like being invaded.

I can also add that invasion is not a terribly cost-effective way to create markets for the two or three consumer goods still actually made in the US.

[Widows Son]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

She said that Iraq under Hussein already bought American goods [ . . . ]. The Iraq war certainly isn't about establishing markets for American goods. That market was already established in Iraq.

This is wrong. Saddam lead the Iraqi Ba'atist Patry, which is a pan-Arab socialist movement. At the time of the US invasion, Iraq was subject to US sanctions, and clearly no market for US goods.

The fact that war is about money is only a matter of observation. One can consider the former Warsaw Pact, where the deployment of Soviet troops was coincidental with markets for the USSR's goods.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

So America is the world's benevolent policeman? Gimme a break.

She didn't say that. She said that Iraq under Hussein already bought American goods and sold oil to the United States. In fact, Iraq was our ally until their decision to invade Kuwait.

The Iraq war certainly isn't about establishing markets for American goods. That market was already established in Iraq.

Meanwhile, why in the world would the US wish to colonize Iraq, when it is far more cost-effective to establish a pro-US government of Iraqis, train them, and arm them? It worked quite well last time, until they decided to invade Kuwait.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with a discusson of whether or not LBC is a cult. Perhaps a moderator can split this discussion off into a new thread?

[Widows Son]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

America wasn't the aggressor!

So America is the world's benevolent policeman? Gimme a break.

[RomanK]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

Unaware of what? I am not sure what your conclusion is. Are you disputing that money is the sole cause of war?

They say yes but what happens every sunday, they tithe and pass around 5 gallon buckets to claim your cash. Like giving money would somehow stop people from killing to get it or save them from eviction when the rent is due.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

The cause of all war is God.

I am not disagreeing with you here, Mr. Reproba - but there is always some bizarre rationalisation employed by those who hate or deny God, and engage in warfare - or whom God uses as His instruments.

Isaiah 29 ©1611
1 Woe to Ariel, to Ariel the citie where Dauid dwelt: adde yee yeere to yeere; let them kill sacrifices.
2 Yet I will distresse Ariel, and there shalbe heauinesse and sorrow; and it shall be vnto mee as Ariel.
3 And I will campe against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.
4 And thou shalt bee brought downe, and shalt speake out of the ground, and thy speach shall be low out of the dust, and thy voyce shalbe as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speach shall whisper out of the dust.
5 Moreouer the multitude of thy strangers shalbe like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shalbe as chaffe, that passeth away; yea it shalbe at an instant suddenly.
6 Thou shalt bee visited of the Lord of hostes with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storme and tempest, and the flame of deuouring fire.
7 And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel, euen all that fight against her and her munition, and that distresse her, shalbe as a dreame of a night vision.
8 It shall euen be as when a hungry man dreameth, and behold he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soule is emptie: or as when a thirstie man dreameth, and behold he drinketh; but hee awaketh, and behold he is faint, and his soule hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations bee, that fight against mount Zion.

Here it is clear that God is the one doing everything, but to those people who do not recognise their status as His pawns, some bizarre rationalisation would be necessary. When Egypt, Jordan & Syria attacked Israel in the 6 day war, or when the Arab coalition attacked in 1973, Israel was strengthened, but I don't think the mohammedans thought "miaow, let's go and do God's will and strengthen Israel" - rather the contrary, and in the latter example even chose Yom Kippur as a moment when they thought Israel would be weaker!

I don't know what they did think, but seizing Israeli territory is the objective that motivates them. It is not the objective that motivates God.

Thank you for the opportunity to clarify that, Mr. Reproba.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

If territory is the cause, why did the US return Iraq to the Iraqi people?

America wasn't the aggressor! Some years ago, Egypt attacked Israel. They wanted Israeli territory. Being mohammedans, of course they couldn't organise a drinking competition in a brewery and their attempt failed. DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING? EGYPT ATTACKED ISRAEL NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Israel drove that mohammedan detritus back into their Egypt, crossing the Sinai dessert to do so, and established the peninsula as a buffer zone, in case Egypt attacked again. THAT MEANS THAT IF EGYPT STARTED TO CROSS THE SINAI PENINSULA AGAIN THEN ISRAEL COULD REPULSE THEM BEFORE THEY GOT CLOSE ENOUGH TO HARM THE POPULATION OF ISRAEL. (During that time, Israeli farmers developed a small part of the Sinai region, using innovative condensation irrigation and a number of other techniques so that the dessert bloomed with agricultural production. . Isaiah 35:1
But it was not Israel's intention to seize territory - they were only responding to Egyptian aggression.

After a while, there were political changes in Egypt that indicated the buffer zone was no longer necessary, and Sinai was returned to Egypt. Naturally, they did not continue the agriculture, and it is a dessert again.

Similarly in Iraq. The Iraqi administration sought to expand its territory, were resisted by Kuwait and allies WHO WERE NOT SEEKING TO EXPAND THEIR TERRITORY, and were sent back to Iraq. Quite a lot of damage was done in Kuwait, and the Iraqi government continued to export terrorism, engaged in genocide within Iraq and embarked on an illegal military build up. Whether Iraq had a secular or theocratic government is irrelevant. The regime was an ongoing threat to neighbours and to the international community, and a similar group of allies removed the illegal regime. ONLY IRAQ THE AGGRESSOR WAS INTERESTED IN TERRITORIAL EXPANSION, THE ALLIES WERE NOT.

THAT IS WHY IRAQ WAS RETURNED TO THE IRAQI PEOPLE

If a stable administration can be established, then the allies will depart - but "stability" in most mohammedan countries means "chaos" (and since a chaotic system is a stable system, chaos will probably be as good as it gets).

The modern Iraq buys US goods, Levi jeans, Coca-Cola, McDonalds hamburgers, Microsoft software

..so did Ba'athist Iraq.

. . . and, importantly, countries in the coalition got Iraqi reconstruction contracts.

well, who else would do it? The Arabs certainly wouldn't!

Territory is the means of war. One goes to war by taking the other's territory, the purpose is to get the target country buying your goods and services.

FALSE (see above)

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

Money has nothing to do with war....

answer: territory territory territory territory

You are BOTH wrong. The cause of all war is God.

/thread

[Widows Son]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

They don't care about the money, they just want the territory.

If territory is the cause, why did the US return Iraq to the Iraqi people?

The modern Iraq buys US goods, Levi jeans, Coca-Cola, McDonalds hamburgers, Microsoft software, . . . and, importantly, countries in the coalition got Iraqi reconstruction contracts.

Territory is the means of war. One goes to war by taking the other's territory, the purpose is to get the target country buying your goods and services.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

That money is the sole cause of war.

Money has nothing to do with war, unless some demented country (like France, say) wants to become bankrupt (e.g. by killing everyone who actually knows hoe to run the place, then having the Napoleonic wars, then declaring war on Prussia)
(or by invading a peaceful neighbour with powerful allies)
(or by going on the rampage everywhere in Africa)

Mostly, war seems to be about territory. Is history actually taught in your country? It isn't here, and the level of ignorance approaches even yours! There is history in The Bible, the history of Creation, of God's Perfect Love, and His unfolding plan for us all. Why did Julius Cæsar go to war? Genghis Kahn? Alexander The Great? Adolph Hitler Lebensraum?


answer: territory territory territory territory

NOT money money money money

NOT oil oil oil oil or coal coal coal coal (or olives olives olives olives)

Why are the Arabs annoyed with Israel? Palestine didn't produce much money, coal, oil - it was a typical 3rd world basket case (like all mohammedan cesspits) - it is about territory lost to Allah.

Now that it's not run by mohammedans, it is prosperous, but they took back a blossoming Sinai Peninsula (captured legitimately by Israel) and POOF! instant 3rd world nightmare. They don't care about the money, they just want the territory.

[Widows Son]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

That money is the sole cause of war.

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

Can you find hate or hatred in The Bible?

I swear! I go away for a year to pray for a cure to my cancer and all these new troublemakers show up in our forum that seem to have missed the SCIENTIFIC STUDY OF THE BIBLE THAT PROVES IT IS MUCH MORE ABOUT HATE (AND MANY OTHER TOPICS) THAN IT IS ABOUT LOVE.

End of discussion.

PS: Widows Son, you may want to take the 30 seconds it takes to run the query that Pastor Zeke showed you BEFORE you assert that the word "hate" doesn't appear in the Bible. Just a thought. I mean, I would be incredibly embarrassed if I were you.

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

Ever wondered why we're not at war with the oil rich Muslims of Saudi Arabia YET? Or why Nigeria - with the second largest oil reserves - is not occupied by the US YET?

Fixed. You're welcome.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

Unaware of what? I am not sure what your conclusion is. Are you disputing that money is the sole cause of war?

That war has nothing to do with oil - except when one criminal national administration (sorry: big words) except when one bad land bombs next door to wreck their peace, and so their friends help them to get rid of the bad source of bombs. WE WERE FREE TO BUY OIL FROM THEM THEN JUST AS WE ARE NOW - NO CHANGE THERE - WHAT IS YOUR POINT?
..and what has this got to do with The Bible?