[Elliott]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

OK, this is ridiculous. While I see the validity in a few of your points, I cannot agree with the majority of what you say on this site, or what you have said in your posts.

I do read the Bible, every day, and I do know what's in it. I have not memorized the entire book, I am not a pastor, and I do not have a theological or religious degree of any kind. I am, however, a born-again, Bible-believing Christian, and I know what is in the Bible.

I would also like to say that I do not appreciate your demeaning attitude, or your rude statements. At first, I thought I was being a little too cutting, but you have outdone me in this area.

I do not believe someone will go to hell because they did not fulfill the law. Jesus explained that if we break even one law we are guilty of breaking them all. This illustrates that we can't fulfill any of it, and we therefore need God's grace and salvation. We are saved by faith, not by works. Works are a side effect of faith. You cannot have works without faith, and if you have true faith, you will do good works ( see James). This does not necessarily mean that we are to go about sacrificing animals or stoning people. We are no longer slaves of the law, because Jesus paid the price with His life. He did not get rid of the law. He fulfilled it (that's in Matthew, Mark, Luke and/or John; I don't know which book, but Jesus said it.) That means while the law will not pass away, we are no longer in bondage to it because Jesus has taken the penalty upon Himself. The law enslaves people because we can't fulfill it. Only God can, because He is perfect. (If you know of a perfect human, let me know).

I see that this conversation is going nowhere. Contrary to what I said about debating the issue, now realize I simply do not have the time to argue all of the points I would like to. I have dug up way more snakes than I can kill. I am not in any way saying I agree or that you are right, but it is clear that you have become blinded by your legalism (no offense; I couldn't say it any other way) and will not see the truth. I hope and pray you will realize the gravity of your actions before it is too late.

By the way, in response to your FAQ section, yes, by definition, you are racist.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

from what you are saying, it sounds like you believe we must live up to law in order to earn salvation. Salvation is a gift, not an earning.

Of course not!

We believe, as the Bible clearly states, that those who abide in Jesus are without sin, and those who sin do not have Jesus.

As it is written in John 3:

6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Also, I don't have a reference, but didn't Jesus die for everyone? And doesn't God say in John 3:16, "...whoever believes..."? That doesn't sound like racial segregation.

Nobody here said that non-whites cannot be saved . . . except you.

Remember that God made man equal, and in His image.

Could you provide the Scripture that says God created all men equal?

Remember, quote the BIBLE, not the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.

More about the racism issue, the actual genetic difference between races is less than 1%. I don't have a reference for that either, but I have heard it from several trustworthy sources.

Why am I not surprised that once again, you do not have any reference for your assertions?

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you cannot back up what you say?

However, if humans of different races are so similar, why are you a racist?

You're right: I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of the Bible. However, there are some things which I know to be right or wrong.

HOW do you know them to be right or wrong, if you don't know what God says in His Perfect Word? Because you "heard it from several trustworthy sources", none of which you can name?

[Levi Jones]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

OK, I don't think we see eye-to-eye.

I'm no theologian, and certainly not a match for you in a debate, but I remember something about Jesus saying He fulfilled the law,

Not exactly, friend. Jesus said not one jot nor tittle shall pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

In Matthew 4:4 Jesus says, "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

The first thing we must ask ourselves is, "What does 'it is written' mean?"

In Matthew 4:4, Jesus is quoting directly from the Old Testament.

Deuteronomy 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

[Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D.]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

Dear Elliott,

It really saddens me to see a man with good intentions going straight to Hell. I pray you will see the wrong of your ways and start doing some serious Bible study!

I'm no theologian, and certainly not a match for you in a debate, but I remember something about Jesus saying He fulfilled the law, and therefore we are no longer in bondage to it. He said His burden is easy and His yoke is light. This is by no means an excuse to sin, but from what you are saying, it sounds like you believe we must live up to law in order to earn salvation. Salvation is a gift, not an earning.

I am glad you admit to not knowing what is in the Holy Bible. I do however hope you will fix that before it is too late. Please read the Holy Bible!

As to your assumptions about what you "think" is in the Holy Bible. That is not how it works. I assure you when Jesus sends you to Hell that "hey I was too busy to actually read the Holy Bible" will not be a valid excuse. Really reading the Holy Bible will be the most important thing you ever did with your life.

Also, I don't have a reference, but didn't Jesus die for everyone?

No, Jesus did not do that. And if you would have read the Holy Bible, you would have known that: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man comes to the Father but by Me." (John 14:6). So only by choosing Jesus for 100%, only by following His Holy Bible for 100%, can we ever hope to once reach Heaven. There is no other way. There is no shortcut!

You're right: I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of the Bible. However, there are some things which I know to be right or wrong.

Then how do you know things to be right or wrong if you are not aware of God's clear instructions?

I can not repeat this enough: read the Holy Bible! I hope you will follow my advice and save yourself!


Yours in Christ,

Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D.

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

OK, I don't think we see eye-to-eye.

I'm no theologian, and certainly not a match for you in a debate, but I remember something about Jesus saying He fulfilled the law, and therefore we are no longer in bondage to it. He said His burden is easy and His yoke is light. This is by no means an excuse to sin, but from what you are saying, it sounds like you believe we must live up to law in order to earn salvation. Salvation is a gift, not an earning.

Also, I don't have a reference, but didn't Jesus die for everyone? And doesn't God say in John 3:16, "...whoever believes..."? That doesn't sound like racial segregation. Remember that God made man equal, and in His image.

More about the racism issue, the actual genetic difference between races is less than 1%. I don't have a reference for that either, but I have heard it from several trustworthy sources.

You're right: I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of the Bible. However, there are some things which I know to be right or wrong.

1st John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Matthew 5:18 (King James Version) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

[Elliott]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

OK, I don't think we see eye-to-eye.

I'm no theologian, and certainly not a match for you in a debate, but I remember something about Jesus saying He fulfilled the law, and therefore we are no longer in bondage to it. He said His burden is easy and His yoke is light. This is by no means an excuse to sin, but from what you are saying, it sounds like you believe we must live up to law in order to earn salvation. Salvation is a gift, not an earning.

Also, I don't have a reference, but didn't Jesus die for everyone? And doesn't God say in John 3:16, "...whoever believes..."? That doesn't sound like racial segregation. Remember that God made man equal, and in His image.

More about the racism issue, the actual genetic difference between races is less than 1%. I don't have a reference for that either, but I have heard it from several trustworthy sources.

You're right: I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of the Bible. However, there are some things which I know to be right or wrong.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

Here you say:

We humans do not save, nor do we guarantee salvation, or do we forgive sins. Only God has that authority. He is the only one who knows the hearts of men. We cannot possibly know if someone is truly saved until we actually die and then see them in heaven or not.

Yet here you say:

Second, I will not burn in hell, because I have been redeemed through Christ's death and resurrection, having accepted His free gift of salvation.

You cannot have it both ways. You have to be as consistent as the Holy Bible in what you believe and what you tell other people to have even a small chance of actually being allowed in Heaven.

The Holy Bible is not open to interpretation: Deuteronomy 4:2 "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

The consequences for doing that are severe: Revelation 22:18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

[Levi Jones]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

I'm sorry. I posted my last entry before reading much of your website. Yes, by definition, you are a cult. You twist God's word in the most shameful ways. Let me name just one example, although I could easily go on. However, quoting the entire website would not be practical. In response to the question, "Does God listen the prayers of Christians who aren't white Americans?", you said, "No, he doesn't want to listen to non-whites and non-Americans because he considers them dogs". You then proceeded to horribly butcher a quote from Jesus himself, in which Jesus tested a gentile's faith using figurative speech! Does no one recall that immediately after Jesus said this, He granted her request?!

Yes, Jesus did grant her request after she groveled properly before him saying, "Even dogs eat crumbs from their master's table."

God tells the Israelites to show no mercy to the people they conquer and to not intermingle with them.

Deuteronomy 7:2-5 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.

David appeals to God asking Him if he has not hated God's enemies enough.

Psalm 139:19-23 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.
Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

Speaking for real Christianity,

Well, congratulations on your blasphemy.
I think I'll stick to what is actually in the Bible.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

I'm sorry. I posted my last entry before reading much of your website.

I will forgive you for that.

I do notice though that you make all kinds of statements without referring to the proper scripture. This is a Christian forum. So if you have something to say, please make sure it is backed by the Holy Bible and show appropriate scripture to prove that. We are not interested in your personal opinion, but there is always more to learn from God's Holy Bible.

but it seems all LBC wants to do is sit back and self-righteously judge the world

For someone who claims to be a Christian you do not seem to be aware of what is actually in the Holy Bible. God clearly demands us to judge:
Leviticus 19:15 "In righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour."
2nd Timothy 4:1-2 "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine."

I would welcome any open and honest debate about the subject

As long as you back your arguments with Holy scripture, I am all for an honest and open debate.

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

I'm sorry. I posted my last entry before reading much of your website. Yes, by definition, you are a cult. You twist God's word in the most shameful ways. Let me name just one example, although I could easily go on. However, quoting the entire website would not be practical. In response to the question, "Does God listen the prayers of Christians who aren't white Americans?", you said, "No, he doesn't want to listen to non-whites and non-Americans because he considers them dogs". You then proceeded to horribly butcher a quote from Jesus himself, in which Jesus tested a gentile's faith using figurative speech! Does no one recall that immediately after Jesus said this, He granted her request?! The statements Landover Baptist makes on this website are beyond blasphemy, because they not only mock God and His word, but claim to the the "True Christians", labeling others as "trash" or "fools", judging the rest of the world instead of trying to reach it. Jesus gave His life so that we all might be saved, but it seems all LBC wants to do is sit back and self-righteously judge the world. I have no doubt that this message will be censored out of the forum, but I challenge you to leave it there. See what happens when people are exposed to a real, two-sided argument in which the truth is not edited out. Speaking for real Christianity, we do not appreciate you slandering God's name by claiming to be part of His church while horribly misusing His Word. I know I will come across as a "liberal" (which I am far from) or a flame-starter (which is not by any means my intention), but for the life of me I can't see how after a good, genuine seeking of God's will and studying of the scriptures LBC could dare to say the things it does. Yes, I find it not only blasphemous but offensive, not because I have heard something uncomfortable, but because you misrepresent God. I hope I have not come across as rude, and I certainly don't mean to offend anyone, but that's not always the most important thing. I'm merely speaking the unvarnished truth, I would welcome any open and honest debate about the subject.

You've presented a lot of angst, and one example where you think we've misquoted Jesus. Do you really think that Jesus didn't mean what He said, just because He granted someone's prayer right afterwards? Jesus grants prayers all the time. Big deal.

By the way, thank you for persecuting us.

Matthew 5:10-11 10Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Luke 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

Romans 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

1 Corinthians 4:12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:

[Elliott]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

Please excuse my emotion in the last two posts. This is the result of posting before enough careful thought, a mistake I will be sure to watch in the future.

Thank you for your response. First, I think you may have misunderstood. I still hold that only God knows our hearts, and we cannot know each other's hearts. We do have assurance of our own salvation through Jesus's death and resurrection.

Second, I will not burn in hell, because I have been redeemed through Christ's death and resurrection, having accepted His free gift of salvation.

I applaud your literal view of the Bible, although there are some areas of which to be careful. Obviously, God is entitled to figurative speech.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

I'm sorry. I posted my last entry before reading much of your website. Yes, by definition, you are a cult. You twist God's word in the most shameful ways. Let me name just one example, although I could easily go on. However, quoting the entire website would not be practical. In response to the question, "Does God listen the prayers of Christians who aren't white Americans?", you said, "No, he doesn't want to listen to non-whites and non-Americans because he considers them dogs". You then proceeded to horribly butcher a quote from Jesus himself, in which Jesus tested a gentile's faith using figurative speech! Does no one recall that immediately after Jesus said this, He granted her request?!

Yes, after He insulted her, then made her debase herself and agree that her people were as dogs groveling on the floor when compared to the Jews, He granted her request. Where is the butchering?

Speaking for real Christianity, we do not appreciate you slandering God's name by claiming to be part of His church while horribly misusing His Word.

Well, your first example wasn't much of one. Our use of that story was perfectly accurate; Jesus told the woman that her race was inferior and made her agree to it before she would get help.

Try again.

I hope I have not come across as rude, and I certainly don't mean to offend anyone, but that's not always the most important thing. I'm merely speaking the unvarnished truth, I would welcome any open and honest debate about the subject.

Try again, and this time, please add paragraph breaks to your response. They will help you to organize your thoughts, instead of spewing forth another stream-of-redundant-consciousness post like the above.

People tend not to read Walls of Text, FYI.

Here's an idea: Why don't YOU tell US who God is and what God wants, and support your claims with Scripture?

Thanks!

[Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D.]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

Dear Elliot,

OK, where do I start? Not to sound unkind in any way, but you sound rather hateful. First, "fool"? I thought the Bible said if we call someone "fool" (or "raca") we are in danger of hell.

You are mistaken. If someone is a fool, we should call him a fool. Because doing otherwise would be lying and as you know all liars will go to Hell: "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)

Finally, where on earth do you get that people in hell will, "spend eternity having your tongue peeled and your anal cavity reamed with steel brushes"? That is nowhere in the Bible!

I would advice you to study Revelation 20 as you seem to be unaware of how Hell actually works.

Again, I don't mean to seem rude or to start a fight. It just seems like you are on a forum designed for the discussion/debate of a view, and you have a pretty poor attitude about the whole thing.

This forum is not about being politically correct. This forum is about being Biblically correct. If that shocks you, that means you are unaware of the contents of the Holy Bible and that you will burn in Hell.

On a completely different note, I'm new to this forum, and I'm wondering about the descriptions of people I see under their names, such as "True Christian" or "Unsaved Trash". Is "Unsaved Trash" a joke, or are we that demeaning and self-righteous about the people Jesus gave His life to save? My sincere apologies if I am mistaken.

The DoF, being guided by Jesus Christ, determines everyone's status. I have never seen them make a mistake.

However, I did see on your site a slogan under the site name, reading, "Guaranteeing Salvation Since 1620". Either this is a joke or you are sadly mistaken. We humans do not save, nor do we guarantee salvation, or do we forgive sins.

It doesn't say "unsaved unwelcome" for nothing. Only those who are saved are allowed and for those salvation is guaranteed: "For by grace are ye saved through faith." (Ephesians 2:8).

We cannot possibly know if someone is truly saved until we actually die and then see them in heaven or not.

You do not seem to get the concept of faith. I would advice you to figure it out before it is too late.

I don't want to come across as critical or judgmental

It seems to me you didn't succeed at that. I would advice you to do some serious Bible study and figure out what God wants you to do.


Yours in Christ,

Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D.

[Elliott]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

I'm sorry. I posted my last entry before reading much of your website. Yes, by definition, you are a cult. You twist God's word in the most shameful ways. Let me name just one example, although I could easily go on. However, quoting the entire website would not be practical. In response to the question, "Does God listen the prayers of Christians who aren't white Americans?", you said, "No, he doesn't want to listen to non-whites and non-Americans because he considers them dogs". You then proceeded to horribly butcher a quote from Jesus himself, in which Jesus tested a gentile's faith using figurative speech! Does no one recall that immediately after Jesus said this, He granted her request?! The statements Landover Baptist makes on this website are beyond blasphemy, because they not only mock God and His word, but claim to the the "True Christians", labeling others as "trash" or "fools", judging the rest of the world instead of trying to reach it. Jesus gave His life so that we all might be saved, but it seems all LBC wants to do is sit back and self-righteously judge the world. I have no doubt that this message will be censored out of the forum, but I challenge you to leave it there. See what happens when people are exposed to a real, two-sided argument in which the truth is not edited out. Speaking for real Christianity, we do not appreciate you slandering God's name by claiming to be part of His church while horribly misusing His Word. I know I will come across as a "liberal" (which I am far from) or a flame-starter (which is not by any means my intention), but for the life of me I can't see how after a good, genuine seeking of God's will and studying of the scriptures LBC could dare to say the things it does. Yes, I find it not only blasphemous but offensive, not because I have heard something uncomfortable, but because you misrepresent God. I hope I have not come across as rude, and I certainly don't mean to offend anyone, but that's not always the most important thing. I'm merely speaking the unvarnished truth, I would welcome any open and honest debate about the subject.

[Elliott]

Re: Is Landover Baptist Church a CULT?

You know, Jesus will not be mocked, fool. Every smart-mouth comment you post in this Godly forum is being recorded by the DOF and by Jesus himself. You won't think you're so clever once Jesus tosses you into the pits of hell, where you will surely spend eternity having your tongue peeled and your anal cavity reamed with steel brushes.

OK, where do I start? Not to sound unkind in any way, but you sound rather hateful. First, "fool"? I thought the Bible said if we call someone "fool" (or "raca") we are in danger of hell.
Second, who's the "DOF" (forgive me if that's an ignorant question), and what are they going to do to people who challenge your beliefs?
Finally, where on earth do you get that people in hell will, "spend eternity having your tongue peeled and your anal cavity reamed with steel brushes"? That is nowhere in the Bible! God specifically warns us against adding to or taking away from His word. I do not know if you were joking, but it didn't sound like a joke, and if it was, it was a pretty sick one.
Again, I don't mean to seem rude or to start a fight. It just seems like you are on a forum designed for the discussion/debate of a view, and you have a pretty poor attitude about the whole thing.
On a completely different note, I'm new to this forum, and I'm wondering about the descriptions of people I see under their names, such as "True Christian" or "Unsaved Trash". Is "Unsaved Trash" a joke, or are we that demeaning and self-righteous about the people Jesus gave His life to save? My sincere apologies if I am mistaken.
More to the point of this thread, I do not see clear evidence that your church is a cult, although I am new to this site and really am not even of the same denomination. However, I did see on your site a slogan under the site name, reading, "Guaranteeing Salvation Since 1620". Either this is a joke or you are sadly mistaken. We humans do not save, nor do we guarantee salvation, or do we forgive sins. Only God has that authority. He is the only one who knows the hearts of men. We cannot possibly know if someone is truly saved until we actually die and then see them in heaven or not. I don't want to come across as critical or judgmental, but I did see a few issues I just couldn't ignore. Again, while I don't think this constitutes a cult, something seems a little off, and I would appreciate it if someone could help me understand.