I've been converted, sorry.

[Foster's phobia]

It's funny. Not three days after joining this forum, I have become an Atheist.

Please, don't reply until you read everything, although I probably won't check back here.

One of my closest friends is an Atheist. I used to try and try to convert him, not a moment went by without me saying something biblical to him (whether it be subtle or abrupt), but he would either argue his point or ignore me.

However, without even trying, he has completely changed my way of thinking.

He was what you might call 'comic relief'. He would say things like 'I had my pelvis removed', upon asking him why, he would respond with 'so I could get it deep fried'. He also had what you might call a running gag, in that he would 'fire' people (he didn't have any authority to do so, he just liked being unpredictable), people whom he hardly had any interaction with.

One day, when I was trying to get him to explain the logic of his 'firing' (usually getting him to explain his insanity was funnier than the insanity itself), we had the following exchange.

Me: How can you fire these people if you haven't even hired them?

Him: Because they're under contract!

Me: But they're not under contract!

Him: Of course they're under contract, otherwise I wouldn't be able to fire them!

Me: But you can't fire them!

Him: Of course I can, they're under contract!

Me: But they're not under contract!

Him: Of course they are! Otherwise I wouldn't be able to fire them.

(We go onto a different topic for a minute, then a friend (catholic) shows up, and I explain our argument, and why I was clearly the only one making sense)

Him (Abruptly, considering that A: I hadn't mention scripture to him yet that day, and B: He had never tried to convert me to Atheism, he had only explained why he supported it at most): Christian logic.

Me: What?

Him: Replace the word fired with God, then replace contract with Bible. *pause* Actually... Replace fired with Bible, and contract with God... As well as all prepositions and junctionals.



I thought about it, and thought about it. What he said bugged me over the course of the next few hours. That's when I realised that A) The Bible says that God is real and God created the Bible, BUT, what if the Bible was a lie, and God isn't real. Normally, when my other Atheist friends (actually, my other friend was my only 'real' Atheist friend, simply because he was funny) brought that to me, I would explain that God created the Bible, so that must mean that the Bible is absolutely right.

But now it seems that the biggest weak point of the Bible is that it could be a lie, but since God made it, it couldn't possibly be a lie. The biggest weak point of God, is that he might be fictional, but the Bible says he's real, thus he is real.

But this endless loop of the Bible covering God and God covering the Bible was the same as my friend's argument over his insanity. For a while, I didn't know what to believe. Since I had found this place recently, I hoped I could find something else that proves God's existance, or the Bible's position as the novel of truth... But I found naught, every argument I found here was similar to one I, or someone close to me, had previously used, while the Atheist arguments were very close to those of my aquaintances... And then some!

I'm still very saddened by the prospect that I have waisted most of my youth NOT doing things simply because I would spend my days in an afterlife of even greater temptation.

I haven't told anyone offline of my recent faith issues.

If you have any REALLY convincing proof, I'd like to hear it. I'll then try using that against my friend, and see what it can do.



tl;dr: My faith has been damaged, try to fix it.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: I've been converted, sorry.

It just so happens I have analyzed this quandary that you are in. You refuse to believe in the Bible because it is based on circular logic. I will admit that it is. However...just because the Bible is based on circular logic....does not invalidate it.

Please read my short, but to the point post regarding this issue.

You will see that disregarding the Bible because of its circular logic is in no way a legitimate reason to not believe in it.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: I've been converted, sorry.

Dear Fostersfable, if that is your name,

I am very, very disappointed that you reject The Trinity. The flames of Hell await you.

I ask you to look on the Bible as God’s autobiography. How could an autobiography of a Being exist if that Being did not exist? We know it is accurate because everything is true.

We know that it is God’s autobiography because there are MYSTERIOUS PASSAGES in the Bible that only the Being writing the Bible could know; therefore there must be a God who sees everything otherwise it would just be a set of folk tales.

Folk tales can be easily distinguished because they often have ridiculous things like

• Animals that talk as in Puss in Boots when they are not inspired by God to talk like the snake in the Garden of Eden;
• Small humans killing Giants like Jack and The Beanstalk and not like David and Goliath where David was supported by God thus making it believable.
• They have impossible things like “The Goose that Laid the Golden Egg” which is nothing like turning water into wine because that is called a miracle for the very good reason that God did it.

Ti:1:14: Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

So please reject your atheist friend; atheists have no love of God and are tools of Satan.

[Marshall]

Re: I've been converted, sorry.

You are going to burn in Hell.

[Joshua Brooks]

Re: I've been converted, sorry.

At least he is not totally lost. He still maintains the notion that it's either the God of the Bible or nothing at all. I think there is still hope for him in the fact that there are no true atheists. Once he inevitably concludes that something cannot come from nothing and that the complexity, beauty and obvious design of life cannot be a fluke he will return to the one and only explanation: The Christian God. I'm not going to give up praying for his Salvation®.

[Bob4God]

Re: I've been converted, sorry.

Foster, you have been tricked by one of the atheist's favorite arguments. Secularists want you to believe that circular logic is a fallacy, when it is actually the ultimate proof of GOD's divine existence.

If you contemplate circular logic long enough, your mind eventually becomes fatigued and you will get frustrated. This is simply because GOD is too big for us to comprehend.

That's where faith comes in. Faith is important to all True Christians, but a lot of false Christians don't know what faith actually is. Let's turn to Hebrews 11:1-6:

1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. [This verse explains that belief in something is ample evidence that it does exist. How could we believe in it if it hadn't previously existed? Faith is the substance of things hoped for, or, faith combined with wishful thinking = validation of what you hope to be true.]

2For by it the elders obtained a good report. [It worked for them! It can work for you, too!]


3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. [This first phrase is very important: "Through faith we understand..." Faith is a viable means of obtaining knowledge. I am not quite sure what that second phrase means, but I have faith that it is true. GOD will explain it when I get to Heaven.]


4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. [Abel's willingness to do exactly what GOD told him to do brought him favor in the eyes of the LORD. Abel offered up a nice juicy lamb, which the LORD promptly consumed with fire, and all Cain had was boring vegetables. When GOD didn't consume his vegetables, Cain immediately turned into a raving blood thirsty Darwinist atheist and butchered his brother.]


5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. [Because of his faith, Enoch was taken straight into Heaven while out strolling with GOD. How do we know this happened? You guessed it, by faith! Remember, faith is the "evidence of things not seen."]


6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. [Not having faith in GOD makes it impossible to please Him. And that means we are destined for hell. You don't want to go to Hell, do you? Then believe in GOD and do what He tells you.]


As you can see, faith totally invalidates the scientific method. You don't need to hypothesize, observe, test, blah blah blah to know something is true.

Once you believe in GOD, the evidence starts pouring in. But how do you arrive at a belief in GOD if the evidence doesn't show up after you start believing?

If the existence of the world and all its amazing beauty isn't enough for you, you will need something really bad to happen to you.

You need to barely survive a car accident, or get severely depressed, or contract a horrible disease. Just something that is beyond your control so that you will turn to a higher power for help, and when you recover, you will see that GOD answered your pleas for help. (If you end up dying anyway, your death will serve as a cautionary tale that Christians the world over will forward to all their email contacts to remind themselves that GOD is not mocked.)

Finally, I will offer you this simple exercise that I used to teach the kids in my youth group when I lived in Kansas:

Take a poster board and draw a line down the middle of it. At the top of the right side, write "GOD" and at the top of the left side, write "satan." (Do not capitalize his name.)

Every morning for one week, ask GOD to guide you throughout your day and to show you evidence of His existence.

Whenever something good happens to you, add one point to GOD's side on the poster board, and whenever something bad happens, add one point to satan's side.

At the end of the week look at the results.

If GOD has more points than satan, obviously He exists and cares about you, as evidenced by the great number of good things He did to you that week, and is protecting your from the devil.

If satan has more points, it shows that he is throwing obstacles in your path to prevent you from reaching your Heavenly Father.

Either way, you have just obtained physical proof that GOD and the devil are real, just as the Bible says they are, and that the entire Bible is true. This should be enough to convince even the most jaded of atheists and "scientists" to get on their knees and ask JESUS CHRIST into their hearts right then and there!

I will be praying for you!

-Bob Fore

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I've been converted, sorry.

Foster, I have just the answer for you! I wrote a pretty quick article that explains why we can see that God is real. It is here: 50 Proofs that God Exists