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  • Unfalsifiable
    Forum Member
    Forum Member
    • Jan 2008
    • 836

    #1

    If God is so perfect, why is there suffering?

    Why are people made Gay?
    Why are people made imperfect?
    Why do babies get born, die and go straight to hell?

    These are all tired, simple and boring questions THAT HAVE BEEN ANSWERED A MILLION TIMES. But I keep seeing people come in here and ask them again and again, so let me put a stop to this. Here is a step by step thought experiment you should go through when asking yourself these questions.

    Step 1) You live in an imperfect world, that's pretty clear to see. If you are unsaved trash, then you yourself are a good example of that imperfection. (Step 1a) you realise you have in idea of perfection without ever experiencing perfection itself)

    Step 2) From that you may immediately conclude that God did not make this world as a paradise or perfect existence for it's inhabitance.

    Step 3) And, if we are talking about God here, we also know he is meant to be a perfect all powerful being.

    Step 4) So then we take the idea of the perfect God, look at the imperfect world, leaving us with no choice but to assume he created this world the way it was on purpose.

    Step 5) Since we are talking about Christians here, we then now need to OPEN THE BIBLE. There God explains it all in very clear and simple terms : (Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

    Step 6) Now you have accepted that God brought evil, you now wonder why, considering he is perfect.

    Step 7) Well now you are faced with two choices, you either think "That durs a gone dun a logicalma contramadiction" like an idiot, or you take the LOGICAL ROUTE and realise God OBVIOUSLY wanted to TEST us WITH EVIL in order to reward us with good. That perfection is reserved for heaven. The array of evil he can produce is huge, dead babies, evil happening to good people, ALL OF THIS is at his whim.

    Finally) You may wonder "why bother with all this, why not just send us straight to heaven" well, that is again a question you could raise two opinions over, one dumb, one sensible. One is to say, I'm here, in this imperfect world, asking WHY this God is doing this to me, and I don't fully understand, the universe is infinate, I just don't know. OR you say something like, well in that case you don't exist God! If all questions cannot be answered by my feeble, limited moral brain I don't want to know! Then maybe you can go study THEORETICAL physics, like a hypocritical douchebag.

    Now, most True Christians wouldn't have even bothered explaining this to you, they'd of just showed you a KJV and told you to get on with it, I've been kind and spoon fed you. Obviously, all the answers needed ARE in the KJV 1611 Bible.
    READ THE BIBLE
  • Capt. Aaron Portway
    One of the Lord's Airborne Rangers
    Salvation from Above
    God's Favorite Pilot™
    True Christian™
    • Sep 2008
    • 6309

    #2
    Re: If God is so perfect, why is there suffering?

    Well said brother, but I'm afraid most of the Unsaved Trash™ that come through here will not be able to understand talk like that.

    Here is a way I've found that very simply explains our short time on this earth before our eternity elsewhere (Heaven at God's right hand for True Christians™, Hell being tortured by Satan for everyone else).

    Life on earth is like elementary school. We learn the basics of how to love Jesus, how not offend him, what things to keep holy, what things deserve bitter rebuke, who he wants us to hate, etc. If there was no evil, no buses full of children driving off cliffs, no genocides, no serial rapists, two things would happen.

    1) We wouldn't learn what happens to sinners or the offspring of sinners.

    2) We wouldn't appreciate Heaven when we got there.

    If things were perfect on earth, we wouldn't need a Heaven. And since things are already perfect in Heaven, earth HAS to be imperfect. Simple as that!
    sigpic


    Winging our Way Across the World for The Lord!



    God Bless John Boehner and God Bless the Grand Old Party!



    Barack Hussein Obama is not My President!!!

    Comment

    • Juliette
      True Christian™
      True Christian™
      • Jan 2008
      • 705

      #3
      Re: If God is so perfect, why is there suffering?

      Originally posted by Unfalsifiable View Post
      Why are people made Gay?
      Why are people made imperfect?
      Why do babies get born, die and go straight to hell?

      These are all tired, simple and boring questions THAT HAVE BEEN ANSWERED A MILLION TIMES. But I keep seeing people come in here and ask them again and again, so let me put a stop to this. Here is a step by step thought experiment you should go through when asking yourself these questions.

      Step 1) You live in an imperfect world, that's pretty clear to see. If you are unsaved trash, then you yourself are a good example of that imperfection. (Step 1a) you realise you have in idea of perfection without ever experiencing perfection itself)

      Step 2) From that you may immediately conclude that God did not make this world as a paradise or perfect existence for it's inhabitance.

      Step 3) And, if we are talking about God here, we also know he is meant to be a perfect all powerful being.

      Step 4) So then we take the idea of the perfect God, look at the imperfect world, leaving us with no choice but to assume he created this world the way it was on purpose.

      Step 5) Since we are talking about Christians here, we then now need to OPEN THE BIBLE. There God explains it all in very clear and simple terms : (Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

      Step 6) Now you have accepted that God brought evil, you now wonder why, considering he is perfect.

      Step 7) Well now you are faced with two choices, you either think "That durs a gone dun a logicalma contramadiction" like an idiot, or you take the LOGICAL ROUTE and realise God OBVIOUSLY wanted to TEST us WITH EVIL in order to reward us with good. That perfection is reserved for heaven. The array of evil he can produce is huge, dead babies, evil happening to good people, ALL OF THIS is at his whim.

      Finally) You may wonder "why bother with all this, why not just send us straight to heaven" well, that is again a question you could raise two opinions over, one dumb, one sensible. One is to say, I'm here, in this imperfect world, asking WHY this God is doing this to me, and I don't fully understand, the universe is infinate, I just don't know. OR you say something like, well in that case you don't exist God! If all questions cannot be answered by my feeble, limited moral brain I don't want to know! Then maybe you can go study THEORETICAL physics, like a hypocritical douchebag.

      Now, most True Christians wouldn't have even bothered explaining this to you, they'd of just showed you a KJV and told you to get on with it, I've been kind and spoon fed you. Obviously, all the answers needed ARE in the KJV 1611 Bible.
      Excellent exposure Mr. Unfals Thanks for that. Even including one of my alltime favorite bible-verses:

      Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


      Comment

      • SUV
        True Christian™ Princess
        The Driving Force behind RA12
        Have at it, anytime!
        • Sep 2006
        • 11027

        #4
        Re: If God is so perfect, why is there suffering?

        Falsies! Really! Who are you, a "Sinner in the Hands of an Angry God," to question the ways of HIM?

        Comment

        • Ezekiel Bathfire
          Pastor for Diversity and Tolerance
          Christ's Rottweiler
           
          • Jan 2008
          • 22839

          #5
          Re: If God is so perfect, why is there suffering?

          If I follow your theology aright, you are suggesting that God (in His infinite Wisdom) has laid out an earth through which, like Adam, we should wander with its multitude of temptations and vicissitudes.

          You suggest that for each pitfall there is more than adequate recompense from The Lord when suffering is viewed in a Godly Light as just and right and contrasted against the iniquities and Darkness of Evil.

          You suggest that we are protected in our perambulations by The Lord of Hosts, who will guide us and give us fortitude to bear the snares and traps of the Evil One. His Ineffability is not that there are temptations for these are required to develop the strength of character of a True Christian.

          His Compassion extends as the Insurance Policy of Everlasting Life in Paradise (if we keep up the payments by following His Word) and the Pits of Damnation if we do not.

          All in all, a fair exposition of the Human Condition Brother Unfalsifiable.
          sigpic


          “We must reassert that the essence of Christianity is the love of obedience to God’s Laws and that how that complete obedience is used or implemented does not concern us.”

          Author of such illuminating essays as,
          Map of the Known World; Periodic Table of Elements; The History of Linguistics; The Errors of Wicca; Dolphins and Evolution; The History of Landover (The Apology); Landover and the Civil War; 2000 Racial Slurs.

          Comment

          • Talitha
            Deaconess
            Gracious, genteel, kind, tender, and warm True Christian™ Sister
            True Christian™
            • Oct 2025
            • 15118

            #6
            Re: If God is so perfect, why is there suffering?

            Why are people made Gay?
            Why are people made imperfect?
            Why do babies get born, die and go straight to hell?


            That's easy to answer.
            God has a sense of humor.
            He gets an Almighty Belly-Laugh at seeing Homers, Crippers and dead Babies

            PRAISE HIM

            Sister Talitha

            Markswoman, Circumcisionist, Platinum Tither.


            HE took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha Cumi; which is,
            being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise!...Mark 5:41



            Comment

            • s@ul77
              Unsaved trash
              • Aug 2008
              • 97

              #7
              Re: If God is so perfect, why is there suffering?

              Why are people made Gay?
              Nobody is made gay, just as much as as nobody is made a rapist, you choose to be that way.
              Why are people made imperfect?
              Nobody is born imperfect if you come from the Father, mankind makes you imperfect.
              Why do babies get born, die and go straight to hell?
              Why does anyone die, maybe you should look at what people call food and drink.
              Step 1) You live in an imperfect world, that's pretty clear to see. If you are unsaved trash, then you yourself are a good example of that imperfection. (Step 1a) you realise you have in idea of perfection without ever experiencing perfection itself)
              True to a certain extent, if we allow the world to be imperfect in the eyes of the Father, then what do you expect, love will conquer all.
              Step 2) From that you may immediately conclude that God did not make this world as a paradise or perfect existence for it's inhabitance.
              No, the Father did not make this world perfect, that is our job, love will overcome hate.
              Step 3) And, if we are talking about God here, we also know he is meant to be a perfect all powerful being.
              God, is all powerful and so is love.
              Step 5) Since we are talking about Christians here, we then now need to OPEN THE BIBLE. There God explains it all in very clear and simple terms : (Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
              Would you like to expand that point.
              Step 6) Now you have accepted that God brought evil, you now wonder why, considering he is perfect.
              In what way?
              Step 7) Well now you are faced with two choices, you either think "That durs a gone dun a logicalma contramadiction" like an idiot, or you take the LOGICAL ROUTE and realise God OBVIOUSLY wanted to TEST us WITH EVIL in order to reward us with good. That perfection is reserved for heaven. The array of evil he can produce is huge, dead babies, evil happening to good people, ALL OF THIS is at his whim.
              First of all, it is not God`s desire to take the young, it is the evil one that tests you soul.
              Finally) You may wonder "why bother with all this, why not just send us straight to heaven" well, that is again a question you could raise two opinions over, one dumb, one sensible. One is to say, I'm here, in this imperfect world, asking WHY this God is doing this to me, and I don't fully understand, the universe is infinate, I just don't know. OR you say something like, well in that case you don't exist God! If all questions cannot be answered by my feeble, limited moral brain I don't want to know! Then maybe you can go study THEORETICAL physics, like a hypocritical douchebag.
              What is the question and more importantly, what is your answer.
              Now, most True Christians wouldn't have even bothered explaining this to you, they'd of just showed you a KJV and told you to get on with it, I've been kind and spoon fed you. Obviously, all the answers needed ARE in the KJV 1611 Bible.
              Wrong, you have preached without understanding what is the word of "God", nothing more.

              Comment

              • Ezekiel Bathfire
                Pastor for Diversity and Tolerance
                Christ's Rottweiler
                 
                • Jan 2008
                • 22839

                #8
                Re: If God is so perfect, why is there suffering?

                Originally posted by s@ul77 View Post
                Nobody is made gay, just as much as nobody is made a rapist, you choose to be that way.
                A good start. Homerism is a lifestyle choice and an abomination!
                Nobody is born imperfect if you come from the Father, mankind makes you imperfect.
                Do you have Scripture to support that? What about mongs and spazzers? The blind, deaf and lame?
                Re why do babies die and go to Hell? Why does anyone die, maybe you should look at what people call food and drink.
                Would you address the question of damnation and babies?
                True to a certain extent, if we allow the world to be imperfect in the eyes of the Father, then what do you expect, love will conquer all.
                Or slaughtering millions as per The Flood.
                No, the Father did not make this world perfect,
                Are you suggesting that God did not put His Whole Back into the earth? That he cut corners? That he did less than His Best? Do you have Scripture to support that? I’m going to be annoyed if you are just dissing God.

                Re why God brought evil: In what way?
                You tell me, how good’s your Bible knowledge?
                First of all, it is not God`s desire to take the young,
                God would say differently and I have scripture to show it.
                it is the evil one that tests you soul.
                and who created the evil one and gave him his job description?
                Wrong, you have preached without understanding what is the word of God, nothing more.
                The sick are to be driven out of the community - Numbers 5:1-4. Complain about God and He burns people to death - Numbers 11:1. The punishment for bringing a Midianite woman into your tent? God kills 24,000 people by a plague - Numbers 25:6-9.

                I think we here understand God as well as any mortal might…

                You’re not a Christian are you? You’re some sort of Godless freak who’s handy with Google. Someone who’s all fluffy-bunny and love will conquer all!

                You don’t want to know about the Bible, you’ve invented your own little god, and he is not The God of Christianity!
                sigpic


                “We must reassert that the essence of Christianity is the love of obedience to God’s Laws and that how that complete obedience is used or implemented does not concern us.”

                Author of such illuminating essays as,
                Map of the Known World; Periodic Table of Elements; The History of Linguistics; The Errors of Wicca; Dolphins and Evolution; The History of Landover (The Apology); Landover and the Civil War; 2000 Racial Slurs.

                Comment

                • s@ul77
                  Unsaved trash
                  • Aug 2008
                  • 97

                  #9
                  Re: If God is so perfect, why is there suffering?

                  A good start. Homerism is a lifestyle choice and an abomination!
                  Just like St.Paul we all makes choices, unlike many so called Christians, God has grace and forgiveness.
                  Do you have Scripture to support that? What about mongs and spazzers? The blind, deaf and lame?
                  Show me that those who come from the Father are as you say "mongs" and "spazzers", be careful of what you say.
                  Would you address the question of damnation and babies?
                  I address it if you will, why don`t you counter my point, are you not seeking the truth?
                  Or slaughtering millions as per The Flood.
                  And what does the rainbow mean? The only time God will do something similar is in the end time, those who work for that, belong with the evil one.
                  Are you suggesting that God did not put His Whole Back into the earth? That he cut corners? That he did less than His Best? Do you have Scripture to support that? I’m going to be annoyed if you are just dissing God.
                  God made the world perfect, it is man that made it imperfect.
                  You tell me, how good’s your Bible knowledge?
                  No, you tell me.
                  God would say differently and I have scripture to show it.
                  Is this just a few sentence`s here and there?
                  and who created the evil one and gave him his job description?
                  He created himself.
                  The sick are to be driven out of the community - Numbers 5:1-4. Complain about God and He burns people to death - Numbers 11:1. The punishment for bringing a Midianite woman into your tent? God kills 24,000 people by a plague - Numbers 25:6-9. I think we here understand God as well as any mortal might…
                  A sentence here and there, not really enough to justify anything.
                  You’re not a Christian are you? You’re some sort of Godless freak who’s handy with Google. Someone who’s all fluffy-bunny and love will conquer all!
                  Seems you have a lot of anger inside?
                  You don’t want to know about the Bible, you’ve invented your own little god, and he is not The God of Christianity!
                  Now that is funny.

                  Comment

                  • Ezekiel Bathfire
                    Pastor for Diversity and Tolerance
                    Christ's Rottweiler
                     
                    • Jan 2008
                    • 22839

                    #10
                    Re: If God is so perfect, why is there suffering?

                    You:
                    No, the Father did not make this world perfect, that is our job, love will overcome hate

                    Me:
                    Are you suggesting that God did not put His Whole Back into the earth? That he cut corners? That he did less than His Best? Do you have Scripture to support that? I’m going to be annoyed if you are just dissing God.

                    You:
                    God made the world perfect, it is man that made it imperfect.

                    You’re not making sense. I think you need Jesus’s help:-
                    M't:4:24: And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
                    sigpic


                    “We must reassert that the essence of Christianity is the love of obedience to God’s Laws and that how that complete obedience is used or implemented does not concern us.”

                    Author of such illuminating essays as,
                    Map of the Known World; Periodic Table of Elements; The History of Linguistics; The Errors of Wicca; Dolphins and Evolution; The History of Landover (The Apology); Landover and the Civil War; 2000 Racial Slurs.

                    Comment

                    • s@ul77
                      Unsaved trash
                      • Aug 2008
                      • 97

                      #11
                      Re: If God is so perfect, why is there suffering?

                      Originally posted by Ezekiel Bathfire View Post
                      You:
                      Me:
                      You:
                      You’re not making sense. I think you need Jesus’s help:-
                      M't:4:24: And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
                      Is that it, another sentence here an there, come on, give me more. Tell me what it means?

                      Comment

                      • Ezekiel Bathfire
                        Pastor for Diversity and Tolerance
                        Christ's Rottweiler
                         
                        • Jan 2008
                        • 22839

                        #12
                        Re: If God is so perfect, why is there suffering?

                        Originally posted by s@ul77 View Post
                        Is that it, another sentence here an there, come on, give me more. Tell me what it means?
                        Oh Boy! Talk about "one step at a time"...

                        You said "No, the Father did not make this world perfect",


                        And I said, "Are you suggesting that God did not put His Whole Back into the earth? That he cut corners? That he did less than His Best? [...]"


                        and you replied, "God made the world perfect"


                        Now, in your language, is "the Father" and God the same person?


                        Because if They are, you have said one thing and then said the opposite.


                        This is a sign of madness - Jesus can cure madness.



                        M't:4:24: And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.


                        (I'm beginning to think that you are a few verses short of a Chapter.)
                        sigpic


                        “We must reassert that the essence of Christianity is the love of obedience to God’s Laws and that how that complete obedience is used or implemented does not concern us.”

                        Author of such illuminating essays as,
                        Map of the Known World; Periodic Table of Elements; The History of Linguistics; The Errors of Wicca; Dolphins and Evolution; The History of Landover (The Apology); Landover and the Civil War; 2000 Racial Slurs.

                        Comment

                        • s@ul77
                          Unsaved trash
                          • Aug 2008
                          • 97

                          #13
                          Re: If God is so perfect, why is there suffering?

                          M't:4:24: And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
                          Is that it?
                          (I'm beginning to think that you are a few verses short of a Chapter.)
                          I am beginning to think you are many chapters short of a book.

                          Comment

                          • Ezekiel Bathfire
                            Pastor for Diversity and Tolerance
                            Christ's Rottweiler
                             
                            • Jan 2008
                            • 22839

                            #14
                            Re: If God is so perfect, why is there suffering?

                            Originally posted by s@ul77 View Post
                            Is that it?
                            What more do you want? You can't even remember what you wrote.

                            Why haven't you introduced yourself in the Introduction forum?
                            sigpic


                            “We must reassert that the essence of Christianity is the love of obedience to God’s Laws and that how that complete obedience is used or implemented does not concern us.”

                            Author of such illuminating essays as,
                            Map of the Known World; Periodic Table of Elements; The History of Linguistics; The Errors of Wicca; Dolphins and Evolution; The History of Landover (The Apology); Landover and the Civil War; 2000 Racial Slurs.

                            Comment

                            • Ebenezer Wright
                              True Christian™
                              True Christian™
                              • Jul 2008
                              • 1021

                              #15
                              Re: If God is so perfect, why is there suffering?

                              Originally posted by s@ul77 View Post
                              Is that it? I am beginning to think you are many chapters short of a book.
                              I am getting fed up with your mockery on this forum boy, have you ever even read a full book in your life? I am certain you haven't read the Good Book, thats a given.
                              Gather around so that I can read to you from my book of TRUTH. Genesis thru Revelations....Pick one!

                              Luke 12:5- But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

                              Comment

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