[Aaron Cyril]

Re: Historical Errors in the Bible

I guess we continue

[Phebe Carlyle]

Re: Historical Errors in the Bible

I guess we continue

Well, at least I do, Brother Aaron!

I don't like anyone critcizing the absolute, inerrant TRUTH of God as in the AV1611, and I will defend it vehemently!

I have been to these places the commie heathen has mentioned, so I know them to be real and for it to all be the Truth.

I am trying to help her see reason (although as she is a stalinist, I doubt that may be possible) but I am willing to give her a chance.

Aren't we to share the knowledge so that people see the AV1611 for what it is?

You think about that chappy!

YIC,

Mrs.P.Wintersnow.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Historical Errors in the Bible

-The Ancient Egyptians were prolific in keeping records, yet there is NO evidence at all of anything in Exodus! Rain frogs, plagues, the death of every firstborn, the entire Egyptian army and the Pharaoh dying in the Red Sea while pursuing runaway slaves - the Egyptians bother to record stuff much, much more mundane then this.

This particular issue has been done to death. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and the Egyptians could hardly be expected to write down such a humiliating defeat. As for a description of the plagues, have you ever heard of the Ipuwer Papyrus?

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Historical Errors in the Bible

No, they didn't change names.

Can you provide scripture to prove that?

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: Historical Errors in the Bible

A lot of apologist nonsense.

First off, it's inaccurate to say the KJV translates the Greek the best, because if you actually look, there is a LOT of disagreement in the old manuscripts about these names. What we do know is that the OLDEST manuscripts have Matthew saying Gadara, while the KJV says Gergesa. (Gergesa was never even in the Bible until Origen inserted it in.) The oldest copies of Mark say Gerasa, while the KJV say Gadara.

Now, as for your little theory that since they are talking about a region, than it can encompass all these places -

That the author of the Gospel of Matthew changed "Gerasene" to "Gadarene," which is somewhat closer to the water, suggests that he was not nearly as comfortable asyou with the "region" of the Gerasenes being so large. There are other problems with your Holding's interpretation of "region." Gerasa is part of the Decapolis, one of several cities of roughly co-equal status, including Gadara, which is much closer to a reasonable location for the miracle described in Mark 5:1-13. Gerasa is simply not the most convenient town to use as even an approximate landmark. Also, a region of about thirty miles around Gerasa is about the size of the territory of the Decapolis itself (Bible Mapbook by Simon Jenkins, p. 91). If Mark really wanted to use such an expansive territory as a "landmark" for his miracle, he might as well have just said "Decapolis" instead of "region of the Gerasenes." The Greek word for "region" or "country," χωρα (khora), can mean "the (rural) region surrounding a city or village, the country" or "the region with towns and villages which surround a metropolis." The context indicates that the former is meant, rather than the latter. (John 11:55, "many went up from the country [khora] to Jerusalem before the Passover," is a good example of khora used in this latter sense. Jerusalem is definitely a metropolis, and a central location.) Origen himself recognized the geographical problem and wrote in Book 6, Chapter 24 of his Commentary on John,

This shows that Origin did not interpret χωρα (khora) nearly as expansively as you. Unfortunately for Origen, the textual evidence does not favor the reading "Gergesa," and the place name has been identified with the town Kursi, which as mentioned above, does not appear to have been settled in the first century C.E. (Origin was born around 185 C.E.)


Aside from the obvious supernatural content, the dubious geography of this exorcism account shows the story in Mark 5:1-13 and parallels to be legendary.

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: Historical Errors in the Bible

This particular issue has been done to death. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and the Egyptians could hardly be expected to write down such a humiliating defeat. As for a description of the plagues, have you ever heard of the Ipuwer Papyrus?

You retort that the papyrus of Ipuwer shows a historical account of the plagues from the side of the Egyptians, except of course it doesn't.

The Nile routinely becomes red with mud from the upper part of the river, so it's not at all surprising there would be several accounts of it flowing with blood.

Beyond that here's what Ipuwer says:

2:5-6 Plague is throughout the land. Blood is everywhere.

2:10 The river is blood.

2:10 Men shrink from tasting - human beings, and thirst after water

3:10-13 That is our water! That is our happiness! What shall we do in respect thereof? All is ruin.

2:10 Forsooth, gates, columns and walls are consumed by fire.

10:3-6 Lower Egypt weeps... The entire palace is without its revenues. To it belong [by right] wheat and barley, geese and fish

6:3 Forsooth, grain has perished on every side.

5:12 Forsooth, that has perished which was yesterday seen. The land is left over to its weariness like the cutting of flax.

5:5 All animals, their hearts weep. Cattle moan...

9:2-3 Behold, cattle are left to stray, and there is none to gather them together.

9:11 The land is without light

4:3 (5:6) Forsooth, the children of princes are dashed against the walls.

6:12 Forsooth, the children of princes are cast out in the streets.

6:3 The prison is ruined.

2:13 He who places his brother in the ground is everywhere.

3:14 It is groaning throughout the land, mingled with lamentations

7:1 Behold, the fire has mounted up on high. Its burning goes forth against the enemies of the land.

3:2 Gold and lapis lazuli, silver and malachite, carnelian and bronze... are fastened on the neck of female slaves.

Try as I might, I don't see a plague of frogs, or locusts or anything like the Exodus in there. So sorry, once again that fails.

[Gemira]

Re: Historical Errors in the Bible

You sure do seem to be throwing around a lot of fancy terms and whatnot. Do you really think you can outsmart God?

Addendum: Also, even if it were a routine event for the Nile to turn red, and its turning to blood were that same occurence, why would that be recorded as an extraordinary event?

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: Historical Errors in the Bible

You sure do seem to be throwing around a lot of fancy terms and whatnot. Do you really think you can outsmart God?

Addendum: Also, even if it were a routine event for the Nile to turn red, and its turning to blood were that same occurence, why would that be recorded as an extraordinary event?

It's not recorded as an extraordinary event, though. That is a POEM, not a historical record. There are several different theories as to its significance.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Historical Errors in the Bible

Can you provide scripture to prove that?

I noticed you ignored my question. Thank you for once again showing to everyone visiting this forum that the Bible is right and that you are wrong.

Feel free to answer the question anyway...

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: Historical Errors in the Bible

I noticed you ignored my question. Thank you for once again showing to everyone visiting this forum that the Bible is right and that you are wrong.

Feel free to answer the question anyway...

Can provide scripture to show that New York and Los Angeles are two different cities?

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: Historical Errors in the Bible

-At the time the Bible places the fall of the walls of Jericho, Jericho was an abandoned city.

-There is no evidence of several Canaanite cities being destroyed in short succession as the book of Joshua describes.

-There is no evidence of the United Monarchy, no evidence of an ancient capital in Jerusalem, no unified political force in western Palestine of the time, and definitely not an empire as described in the Old Testament. There is no evidence for the existence of Kings Saul, David or Solomon. No evidence of a temple in Jerusalem at this time.

-The division of the land into Israel and Judah did not happen as the Bible describes, but dates back to the Egyptian rule of the land during the New Kingdom period.

-The Bible describes Solomon ruling from the Euphrates to the Red Sea, which would have required vast armies and resources to conquer. But Jerusalem was a very small city at the time, and Judah was sparsely populated.

-The conquests of David and Solomon are not mentioned in contemporary histories.

-The Books of Samuel are supposed to take place in the 11th century BCE, but they mention many things that were not around in that region until after the 8th century BCE, such as - late armor, domesticated camels, cavalry, iron picks and axes as common tools, sophisticated siege techniques, gargantuan armies, and the existence of Kushite troops.

-The Bible claims the Israelites were in Egypt for 400 (or 430) years. They grew from a population of 70 to approximately 2 million in this time period. By any stretch of the imagination, this seems impossible, but the Bible is even more confusing. Looking at the genealogies of the Bible, it claims the Isrealites were only in Egypt for TWO GENERATIONS! Moses is named as being the great-grandson of Levi, amongst the first generation to enter Egypt (as an adult). So the Isrealites must have lives that spanned hundreds of years, and each woman produced thousands and thousands and thousands of babies. Also, this would mean the Isrealites OUTNUMBERED the Egyptians, the people who supposedly were oppressing over them.

-Genealogies also state that there were only three generations from the conquest of Canaan until the time of David, a time period the Bible describes as covering around four hundred years (the timelines tend to contradict one another).

[James Dewitt]

Re: Historical Errors in the Bible

=Bogdana Alkeav;544364]-

-

The Bible claims the Israelites were in Egypt for 400 (or 430) years. They grew from a population of 70 to approximately 2 million in this time period. By any stretch of the imagination, this seems impossible, but the Bible is even more confusing. Looking at the genealogies of the Bible, it claims the Isrealites were only in Egypt for TWO GENERATIONS! Moses is named as being the great-grandson of Levi, amongst the first generation to enter Egypt (as an adult). So the Isrealites must have lives that spanned hundreds of years, and each woman produced thousands and thousands and thousands of babies. Also, this would mean the Isrealites OUTNUMBERED the Egyptians, the people who supposedly were oppressing over them.

That just proves that Joo's breed like rabbits

-Genealogies also state that there were only three generations from the conquest of Canaan until the time of David, a time period the Bible describes as covering around four hundred years (the timelines tend to contradict one another).

What do you think, is a sundial as accurate as my Roll-ex

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: Historical Errors in the Bible

Can provide scripture to show that New York and Los Angeles are two different cities?

Ah, this time you are not ignoring my question but instead trying to avoid it. Thank you for once more showing to everyone visiting this forum that the Bible is right and that you are wrong.

And yet again, feel free to answer the question anyway, or admit being wrong by admitting you do not have an answer.

Perhaps you should stop trying to fool God, you will fail anyway. Proverbs 15:3"The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good."

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: Historical Errors in the Bible

Ah, this time you are not ignoring my question but instead trying to avoid it. Thank you for once more showing to everyone visiting this forum that the Bible is right and that you are wrong.

And yet again, feel free to answer the question anyway, or admit being wrong by admitting you do not have an answer.

Perhaps you should stop trying to fool God, you will fail anyway. Proverbs 15:3"The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good."

Well, as a matter of fact, I think the Scriptures DO say they are different cities. For example -

Matthew 4: 25And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.


Mark 5: 20And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel.



Mark 7: 31And again, departing from the coasts of Tyre and Sidon, he came unto the sea of Galilee, through the midst of the coasts of Decapolis.

Decapolis, Greek for "Ten Cities", was a collection of Hellenized towns. Gadara and Gerasa were both part of the Decapolis. If they were in fact the same place, with different names, that would mean there would only be 9 cities...

[WWJDnow]

Re: Historical Errors in the Bible

Can provide scripture to show that New York and Los Angeles are two different cities?

Yes, but it comes from the book of Joel, and Joel was something of a mystic, so you have to understand that to Joel, trees represented cities.

The vine is dried up, and the fig tree languisheth; the pomegranate tree, the palm tree also, and the apple tree, even all the trees of the field, are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men.

There it is, clear as day, palm trees are not apple trees.