I need a little help under standing Scripture.

[James Dewitt]

Brothers and Sisters, I have a bit of a problem.

Lets look at say the scriptures involving witches.
Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Leviticus 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

Leviticus 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
Deuteronomy 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

1st Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


It is clear what is to be done. Now we all know that we are to follow secular law.

Titus 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1st Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1st Peter 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1st Peter 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

Yet are we to follow a foolish man and his foolish law?

Romans 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Romans 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
Romans 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

If a law is made that goes against the law of God, should we then follow mans law or the Law of God?

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.


I think I might need some direction from our fine Pastors and Reverends on this matter.

[Jo Freddie]

Re: I need a little help under standing Scripture.

This will be interesting, now I can see a logical answer that is very simple, I wonder if anyone will come up with it. (Oh and it is not a FSM based answer either)

[CyberYahweh]

Re: I need a little help under standing Scripture.

Good sir James Dewitt, I believe that GOD always takes precedence. Sure, we must follow the jurisdictions of the local magistrates, but the Bible never tells us to disobey the Bible! I believe that the above insinuates the institutions of man-made law UP TO THE POINT OF THE BIBLE; not ABOVE THE POINT OF THE BIBLE. Wherever that sets the line of judgment, is on GOD's hands only.

[Jo Freddie]

Re: I need a little help under standing Scripture.

Good sir James Dewitt, I believe that GOD always takes precedence. Sure, we must follow the jurisdictions of the local magistrates, but the Bible never tells us to disobey the Bible! I believe that the above insinuates the institutions of man-made law UP TO THE POINT OF THE BIBLE; not ABOVE THE POINT OF THE BIBLE. Wherever that sets the line of judgment, is on GOD's hands only.

So Pastor Zekie Boy is wrong when he states:

They only reason we don't stone unruly children, witches and queers like you is because secular law forbids it in America.

For now.

And christians SHOULD "stone unruly children, witches and queers"?

[Seth Campbell]

Re: I need a little help under standing Scripture.

So Pastor Zekie Boy is wrong when he states:

And christians SHOULD "stone unruly children, witches and queers"?

You're taking the word of a Forum Member over that of a Pastor? Ah, what else is new.

[Lisa H]

Re: I need a little help under standing Scripture.

So Pastor Zekie Boy is wrong when he states:

And christians SHOULD "stone unruly children, witches and queers"?

Trust Jo Freddie to pop up on this one.

Did you miss what Brother James said;

I think I might need some direction from our fine Pastors and Reverends on this matter.

He said Pastor not Pasta.

[Levi Jones]

Re: I need a little help under standing Scripture.

Brother, obviously, it means that we should obey the laws of God when it is a more Godly ministration that runs our current regime, which we support as scripture tell us we must. We would never want to disobey our rulers and thus anger our LORD.

However, now that we Christians are again being put into the Arena to be eaten like lions again by the modern day Nero Obama.

In summary, I blame Obama.

[Jo Freddie]

Re: I need a little help under standing Scripture.

You're taking the word of a Forum Member over that of a Pastor? Ah, what else is new.

No, I was just asking the forum member the question, to find out if he felt that Zekie Boy was wrong.

I am not trying to interoperate your KJV-CFT rule book, I am just seeking clarification as to what your church's position is and how if fits with your favourite collection of fairy tales.

[Jo Freddie]

Re: I need a little help under standing Scripture.

Brother, obviously, it means that we should obey the laws of God when it is a more Godly ministration that runs our current regime, which we support as scripture tell us we must. We would never want to disobey our rulers and thus anger our LORD.

Still a little "woolly"

Should a christian obey all secular law?
Or only that of an administration that matches a certain standard?

However, now that we Christians are again being put into the Arena to be eaten like lions again by the modern day Nero Obama.

In summary, I blame Obama.

The secular laws in question pre-date the current administration.

[Phebe Carlyle]

Re: I need a little help under standing Scripture.

So Pastor Zekie Boy is wrong when he states:

And christians SHOULD "stone unruly children, witches and queers"?

Well the only reason YOU haven't been stoned pastaboy is because of Pastor Zeke's reasoning and patient demeanor. As Pastor Levi stated, Obama is to blame for this travesty and once he is dumped from office, we can all resume doing freely as God intended! God WILL make it happen and from what I can gather, Pastor Zeke is just biding his time until a LEGITIMATE, God fearing and God supporting government resumes control.

Remember this: NO HUMAN LAW IS OF ANY VALIDITY, IF CONTRARY TO THE LAW OF GOD!!!

God in His love is patient though and more than happy to watch heathens like you make many mistakes and dismiss Him. Enjoy your ciabatta... while you can!

YIC

Mrs. Phebe Dewitt.

[Levi Jones]

Re: I need a little help under standing Scripture.

Still a little "woolly"

Should a christian obey all secular law?
Or only that of an administration that matches a certain standard?

Well, you see, Jo. We follow the entire Bible when we say that we should follow the laws of God rather that those of man.

[Jo Freddie]

Re: I need a little help under standing Scripture.

Well, you see, Jo. We follow the entire Bible when we say that we should follow the laws of God rather that those of man.

But is it not "god's" law that the laws of man form part of the laws of "god?

Titus 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1st Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1st Peter 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1st Peter 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

Yet are we to follow a foolish man and his foolish law?

Romans 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Romans 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
Romans 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

[Levi Jones]

Re: I need a little help under standing Scripture.

But is it not "god's" law that the laws of man form part of the laws of "god?

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

[CyberYahweh]

Re: I need a little help under standing Scripture.

Jo Freddie - first and foremost, I meant exactly what I said. Secondly, Pastor Zeke is correct. All of those who throw my knowledge of judicial systems, and scripture, under the bus; I rebuke thee grievously - have you no Faith? Disappointing.

How is what I say possible, you ask?

1 Timothy 5:20
"Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear."

This is easily achievable within the statutes of law. The Bible plans for there to be regulated governments, which is why it asserts the statutes that're set in place.

Luke 17:3
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

Indeed so. Rebuke he who trespasses against thee, he who sins - as each apostle makes very clear. That's the chief objective of a proselyte/preacher.

Though, what does the old testament say?

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."

Indeed so - this is the penitence that's commonly prescribed to a great number of transgressions throughout the old testament. Why don't we resort to this first and foremost, at every instance? The apostles(ref. above, are Paul and Luke), give us a much more arduous task, in the new testament: rebuke.

Because we /are/ governed by secular law, we are forced to rebuke, rebuke, and rebuke some more - however brutal or inspired, the rebuking must be. We aren't afforded the option to kill, as the statutes of secular law currently prohibit, so we must ceaselessly rebuke.

There are a panoply of methods for rebuking; each effective in its own way: proselytizing, street preaching, secretly beating, alienating, and many other methods in which we can legally force the light of the truth on those who aren't right by God. LBC is a shining example, of a pantheon of people who ardently and fiercely rebuke all of those who are ill with sin. It's a hard pill to swallow (you especially would know, you rotting atheist), but those that finally break, and see the light, are saved in a way that you couldn't possibly understand. Of course, sometimes rebuking seemingly fails, and one might move to the final solution. Note that: The current judicial system is malleable, if the circumstances are correct, and your lawyer is well versed - you may achieve the old testament solution within the statutes of the law. Regardless, even if the law defeats you, you're still good by God - so long as you're willing to pay the time for your crime - as in Jail, they're still serving within the statutes of the law. Most understand that, even though they failed to rebuke and suffered from the local law; they're still (contingent on their penitence and vicarious redemption) afforded a seat in heaven.

We Christians can only pray for a more suitable, Conservative Christian (and True American, might I add) government to take a root; and prosper in this self damning lieberal cesspool, so we can enforce more pure and theocratic laws on faggots and whoremongers such as yourself, but until then, we can only rebuke you. In summary, we limit our arsenal to the law, so long as the law doesn't directly contradict the bible (award bad children, allow homosexuals to freely sodomize you, etc). Read my post with 1/4th of your American education, before speaking out of turn.

Thanks to the double edged sword, freedom of speech - which our country holds so dearly; you will never be free from the harsh rebuke of your moral superiors. Just know that, for now, our legal options are limited to that, and you can go to sleep with both eyes closed.

Regardless of what happens, Mr. Freddie, your place is in Hell, with all of your other secular queers. Say hi to that roasting Carl Sagan for me.

And Pray to your false macaroni lord, that we Christians don't take control of the governing body within your lifetime - you'll think being openly rebuked is a luxury.

[CyberYahweh]

Re: I need a little help under standing Scripture.

For example: As a form of rebuking my disobedient child, I could deny him or her food, or kick them out of my house/alienate them from my family. That's a highly effective form of rebuke, and it doesn't immediately break the current prevailing judicial code. This is a very effective way, of forcing the child to see the err of her/his ways, and return to God. However long they wish to suffer in their sin, is contingent upon them.

I've been rebuked many times in my life - leading me to this path of humility and righteousness. You're just too deluded to see that I, in no way, contradicted Pastor Ezekial Flint, even in the slightest. I know my Bible, and I know the implications of law, statutes, and the penal system.