[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Stop!

Pastor Isaac Peters, no thanks. I have read enough here to know you know your Bible. You quote snips and bits and then pretend you don't understand the tenor of the whole work. The Bible describes a process by which individual human beings, and all human beings, can be saved by the grace of God. On every page is writ the word Love. You know that I'm right, and if you're honest about it, you know your approach here is wrong.

Professor Brown

Well I agree with you there. The Holy Bible is crammed full of God's Love. Every single page, praise Jesus!!

Ezekiel 14:13 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:

14:15 If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts:

14:17 Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it:

14:19 Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast:

14:21 For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?

[One-eyed Jack]

Re: Stop!

Professor Brown: "The Bible describes a process by which individual human beings, and all human beings, can be saved by the grace of God. On every page is writ the word Love."

Actually, as you should have understood a long time ago, there are several foundational themes which permeate the Bible more completely than "love".

1. Elitism. There are two kinds of people: the Saved and the damned. In the Old Testament the formulation was the Chosen People and the heathens; in the New it is those saved in Christ and everyone else. This dichotomous, elitist view of humanity runs through the entire Book, from Abel and Cain to Revelation.

It is the foundation of the belief that American Christians have the moral superiority to tell everyone how to live their lives. This elitism is what enables Fred Phelps and Kingdom Ministries. This is what gives Reverend Dobson permission to try to turn American law into a weapon against gays and lesbians.

You should know that already, Professor.

2. War is righteous. Again, this concept permeates the Bible. The Chosen People are always at war, whether against the Canaanites or against unrepentant sinners, the "enemies of God" as some theologians put it. Here's one formulation, written in the 1970s:

"Man cannot seek co-existence with evil without thereby declaring war against God...The more total the peace desired, the more total the warfare required. The new creation of Jesus Christ is the end result of His total warfare against a fallen world; it requires the permanent suppression of evil in hell."

"Peace with God means warfare with the enemies of God. Christ made clear that allegiance to Him meant a sword of division (Matt. 10:34-36). In a sinful world, some warfare is inescapable. A man must therefore pick his enemies: God or sinful man? If a man is at peace with sinful men, he is at war with God."

Total warfare. A man must either be at war with sinful man or at war with God; he cannot choose peace.

When Moses came down from Sinai bearing the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" the first thing he did was have 3000 of his people killed. Righteous killing permeates the Bible.

3. Divine wrath, vengeance, and torture. Have you never read Revelation? Or Deuteronomy 28 and 29? Or the passages in Isaiah and Jeremiah in which God promises to send horrible disease, defeat, famine, and devastation on those who turn away from Him?

Indeed, Jesus was not joking when He told his followers to fear God above all. Fear Him!

When Jesus returns God will torment mankind so horribly that many people will wish to die, but death shall be denied them. At the end, the sentient souls of sinners will be burned in Hell, and the smoke of their burning shall rise forever.

Vengeance, wrath, and torture.

God not only said He would make mothers eat their own children, He followed through. The list of diseases He promised to mankind in Deuteronomy 28 is wonderful, if only for the catch-all He put in at the end in case He has missed out a few plagues:

Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed. Deuteronomy 28:61

----

The point is this: many Christians are blind to 75% of the Bible. They believe that God "is love" despite overwhelming Biblical evidence to the contrary.

We see the whole Bible. We understand it's moral and sociological foundations. It isn't pretty, Professor, but nobody ever said the Truth was pretty.

We may clown around a bit here on our forum, but at the end of the day we are serious. There is evil stalking mankind. It has been thousands of years in the making. It does not pity; it does not sleep. It propagates down the centuries. It maims humanity, disfigures decency, and twists morality into a caricature.

Let the scales fall from your eyes, Professor. Turn against evil. Adjure that which destroys humanity.

And laugh while you do it.

That's the goal.

~~ OEJ

[Deaner]

Re: Stop!

You quote snips and bits and then pretend you don't understand the tenor of the whole work.

Where is it explained in the Bible what the whole "tenor" is? If it's not in the Bible, who's responsible for explaining it...you?

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: Stop!

Several of my students told me about this terribly un-Christian "Christian" site. Frankly, I thought they were probably overreacting.

They clearly were overreacting. You won't find a more Christianly Christian site on the net.

As an academic, I realize there has to be room for many strands of Christian thought, Biblical as well as critical.

Friend, that was your first mistake. There is only one way to read the Bible, and that is to take the words at face value and believe every bit of it.

But having spent a few hours reading your discussions, this site is a horror. There's no true Christian love here. You use the Word of God like a brick to smack each other around with. You're "loving" the Bible literally to death.

That is outrageous slander. I don't believe that you understand what True Christian love is all about. We believe that tolerance is the opposite of love. We believe that all nonbelievers are going to be tormented forever in Hell. To be tolerant would be to stand idly by and do nothing, while these folks approach certain doom. We believe that it is loving to rebuke and reproach these people, to save them from doom by any means necessary.

Is this site really an outgrowth of that love?

There is nothing BUT love on this site! Can I get an Amen?

And 1 Timothy reflects a temporary prohibition on women preaching made necessary by a slide of the local church towards gnosticism. It's quite clear in the originial language. Turning it into a permanent and global proposition is absurd.

I'm calling your bluff, Perfessor. Here is I Timothy 2:11-15 in the original language.

γυνη εν ησυχια μανθανετω εν παση υποταγη
γυναικι δε διδασκειν ουκ επιτρεπω ουδε αυθεντειν ανδρος αλλ ειναι εν ησυχια
αδαμ γαρ πρωτος επλασθη ειτα ευα
και αδαμ ουκ ηπατηθη η δε γυνη απατηθεισα εν παραβασει γεγονεν
σωθησεται δε δια της τεκνογονιας εαν μεινωσιν εν πιστει και αγαπη και αγιασμω μετα σωφροσυνης

I don't see anything in there implying that the restrictions are temporary or because of a specific problem. You are either lying through your teeth, or you are repeating something you have heard but haven't verified for yourself.

Pretending that the words mean something other than what they actually say is absurd.

the term is "women's studies," though that is not my field.

What is your "field"? Please make a post in the introduction forum and tell us about yourself.

Anyway, isn't it the case that you shall know me by my fruits? Isn't what matters whether I can help you find your way back to Christ?

With all due respect, ma'am, we are as close to Christ as we can get while still being here on Earth.

Let's talk about you. You have a lot of liberal ideas and seem to believe that the Bible is wide open to any private interpretation any sinner can throw at it to justify their sinful lifestyle. I'd like to see you get saved. I praise Jesus that He brought you to our forum. I am praying for you, Miss Brown.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

To whomever is running this abominable site:

Stop.

Stop! Bible Time!

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Stop!

There is nothing BUT love on this site! Can I get an Amen?

Amen!!

[JennyD]

Re: Stop!

There is nothing BUT love on this site! Can I get an Amen?
Stop! Bible Time!

AMEN, MC . . . er, Pastor!

[Stridex Puss Bucket]

if there is nothing but love on this site, then why do I see people insulting each other like little children, and rascim?
oh well, the sheep will fight over grass and who has the softest, when the Shepard is away

[ForGodsSake]

Re: Stop!

if there is nothing but love on this site, then why do I see people insulting each other like little children, and rascim?
oh well, the sheep will fight over grass and who has the softest, when the Shepard is away

There is love on this forum. Cant you feel it?

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: Stop!

if there is nothing but love on this site, then why do I see people insulting each other like little children, and rascim?

Friend, I'm not sure what you are referring to. I haven't seen any racism, insults, or childish behavior coming from any of the True Christians(tm) on this site.

The only behavior meeting that description that I have seen comes from the internet trolls that a Godly site like this will invariably attract.

oh well, the sheep will fight over grass and who has the softest, when the Shepard is away

The Shepherd is never away, friend. Jesus is everywhere. He is with us always.

Matt 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Professor Brown]

Re: Stop!

Jack,

Thank you for taking the time to provide a substantive response.

I understand your charge that the Bible contains a message of elitism. However, I think it better said that the Bible shows us a progression from elitism to a more open society. The chosen people started out as -- well, a population of zero after the Fall, then just Abraham and his immediate family, then the burgeoning Tribes of Isreal, then any Jew who accepted the apostolic call of Jesus, and finally anyone who would live the teachings of Jesus, be she Jew or Gentile. Salvation went from being restricted to "our family/ blood tribe" to being open to the entire world. (And possibly to other worlds should we find sentient life elsewhere). And the work of expanding our sympathies for other communities of believers has continued to this day.

I would say the same of war and deliberate savagery. The God of the Old Testament seems like a completely different person from the Jesus of the New Testament. God doesn't change. Our ability to understand Him does. What has changed is that the people of God have grown and matured. They no longer need a war God to impress them, and to impress others. Jesus did not kill a single person. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, the apotheosis of God's direction for us.

I share in your inability to fathom any purpose in the sufferings of the world. We can only do our best. I will pray that God encourages both of us in our ministries, and that the Holy Spirit will fill our hearts and continues to enlighten our conversation.

Professor Brown

[JennyD]

Re: Stop!

I would say the same of war and deliberate savagery. The God of the Old Testament seems like a completely different person from the Jesus of the New Testament. God doesn't change. Our ability to understand Him does. What has changed is that the people of God have grown and matured. They no longer need a war God to impress them, and to impress others. Jesus did not kill a single person. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, the apotheosis of God's direction for us.

I assume you haven't read the entire New Testament, dear? Jesus will return with a sword to slaughter the unfaithful. Sounds very like the Old Testament God . . . because, you see, Jesus IS God.

[Stridex Puss Bucket]

Friend, I'm not sure what you are referring to. I haven't seen any racism, insults, or childish behavior coming from any of the True Christians™ on this site.

The only behavior meeting that description that I have seen comes from the internet trolls that a Godly site like this will invariably attract.


The Shepherd is never away, friend. Jesus is everywhere. He is with us always.

Matt 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

he's always with us on earth, but since there's so many people on earth, he goes from town to town helping them
though of course this takes a long time, so lots of bad things may happen before he reaches a town

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Stop!

They no longer need a war God to impress them, and to impress others. Jesus did not kill a single person. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, the apotheosis of God's direction for us.

Seems to me that you pick and choose what verses of the Bible (Old and New Testaments) you choose to read. By doing this, you pick and choose your own religion, your own faith and your own path. God gave us the Bible and, in Jesus Christ Our Lord, has shown us The True Path™ (Glory!) – Nowhere does He say “pick the bits you like”.

M't:5:18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Lu:16:17: And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

And see my signature for a couple of other verses.

You speak of God as if He is our creation, that we might change Him! This is blasphemous! The God of the Old Testament is God of The New Testament – or are you denying the indivisibility of The Trinity?

You see Miss Professoress Brown, if that is your title, this is why The Lord does not want women preaching – they are not steadfast in His Word.

And now I ask that all True Christians™, on this, The Lord’s Day, join with me in a little song.

The Bells of Hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling, for you but not for me.
And the little devils have a sing-a-ling-a-ling, for you but not for me.
Oh death where is they sting-a-ling-a-ling, oh grave thy victory?
The Bells of Hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling, for you but not for me.

Praise!

[Joe the Atheist]

Re: Stop!

he's always with us on earth, but since there's so many people on earth, he goes from town to town helping them
though of course this takes a long time, so lots of bad things may happen before he reaches a town

Is Jesus like the Incredible Hulk from the old TV series?

You have me picturing Jesus showing up in a new town each week, finding trouble, getting ANGRY about it (you wouldn't like Jesus when he's angry), fixing the problem, then hitchhiking to the next town with soft, sad piano music in the background.

[Marshall]

Re: Stop!

Insulting Jesus isn't cool.