[raylu]

Re: McCain stands up for Freedom!

Jesus clearly favors America above all other countries. We are the most powerful and wealthiest country ever to exist in human history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_empire

http://www.allempires.com/article/index.php?q=The_Mongol_Empire

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CHEMPIRE/YUAN.HTM

http://franklaughter.tripod.com/cgi-bin/histprof/misc/mongol.html

Clearly God loves us most of His children so it goes to follow that Jesus speaks our language, or rather we speak His.

This is completely non sequitur.

But we are not talking about people friend, we are talking about Jesus. He assigns the meanings to the words He says and we just listen.

I am not talking about people or Jesus. My argument came from language. Languages try to assign meanings to words. Most of them are abstract and, therefore, the listener is actually an interpreter who assigns those abstract concepts back to the words.

If anyone has any problem reading it, it is because they are just too foolish to understand God.

Then what are preachers for?

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: McCain stands up for Freedom!

The Mongols?

How many nuclear warheads did they have? How many stealth bombers?

Then what are preachers for?

Pastors don't interpret the Word of God for us, and we aren't intermediaries between man and God.

II Timothy 4:1-5 defines the role of a Pastor.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Virginia Day Templeton]

Re: McCain stands up for Freedom!

Isn't the Mongol "Empire" what the word mongoloid comes from? You can bet your bottom dollar that people won't be calling retards "Americanoids" 800 years from now.

(Actually, there won't be any retards, because there will be no sin during Christ's Millennial reign and thus no reason for Him to curse people with mental deficiency.)

[H. Montague Worthington]

Re: McCain stands up for Freedom!

How many multinational corporations did the Mongols have? Answer: Zero.

And the Mongols had zero Olive Garden Restaurants, zero Baptist Churches, zero shopping malls, zero Buick dealerships, zero gun stores, zero truck stops, and zero golf courses.

[Brother Temperance]

Re: McCain stands up for Freedom!

How many multinational corporations did the Mongols have? Answer: Zero.

And the Mongols had zero Olive Garden Restaurants, zero Baptist Churches, zero shopping malls, zero Buick dealerships, zero gun stores, zero truck stops, and zero golf courses.

What a nightmarish vision. Thank you Jesus for not making me a mongoloid.

[raylu]

Re: McCain stands up for Freedom!

The Mongols?

How many nuclear warheads did they have? How many stealth bombers?

How many multinational corporations did the Mongols have? Answer: Zero.

And the Mongols had zero Olive Garden Restaurants, zero Baptist Churches, zero shopping malls, zero Buick dealerships, zero gun stores, zero truck stops, and zero golf courses.

It makes no sense to measure the power of the Mongols by current standards. For their time, they were the most successful and it is only meaningful to compare them to others of their time. After all, the original statement that I am refuting was:

We are the most powerful and wealthiest country ever to exist in human history.

Isn't the Mongol "Empire" what the word mongoloid comes from?

So, about semantics games...
At least my semantics were relevant. Equating Mongols to people with Down Syndrome is wrong, in the simplest sense of the word. The term "mongoloid" came far after the decline of the empire; the concept of Down Syndrome would have been totally new to people of the time.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: McCain stands up for Freedom!

It makes no sense to measure the power of the Mongols by current standards. For their time, they were the most successful and it is only meaningful to compare them to others of their time. After all, the original statement that I am refuting was:

If you take the region controlled by the Mongol Empire at it height; Southern Russian, Central Asia, Iran, and Northern China and take their combined GNP it doesn’t measure up to the US. It is worth noting that the wealth of that region during the Mongol period of control was depressed by the Mongol’s own scorched earth policies.

[raylu]

Re: McCain stands up for Freedom!

Sorry, I missed this the first time around:

Pastors don't interpret the Word of God for us, and we aren't intermediaries between man and God.

What is this for, then?

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1100/masturbation.html

This seems to be a pastor interpreting the Bible for the people.

In fact, if:
1. everyone can read the Bible and come up with the same interpretation
2. pastors are not intermediaries between man and God
why do Churches exist?

If you take the region controlled by the Mongol Empire at it height; Southern Russian, Central Asia, Iran, and Northern China and take their combined GNP it doesn’t measure up to the US.

Do you mean...GDP?
Their GDP was not measurable... and again, it only makes sense to compare their empire to others of the time.

It is worth noting that the wealth of that region during the Mongol period of control was depressed by the Mongol’s own scorched earth policies.

But they were rebuilt later.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: McCain stands up for Freedom!

Do you mean...GDP?
Their GDP was not measurable... and again, it only makes sense to compare their empire to others of the time.

But they were rebuilt later.

Some were, the population of Iran never from the Mongol conquest. The Mongols deliberately depopulated who regions so they could expand their lifestyle. Now what do you think that did to the Mongol's GDP? Additionally their failed attempts to conquer Japan show their military power, while impressive in a specific context was rather limited in projecting power.

The best modern comparison to the Mongol empire would be a combination the Soviet Union and China in the immediate post WWII period. Military a strong land power yes, but limited naval power and a badly damaged economy.

Anyway as a Christian I reject your whole humanist post-modern relativist argument; raw numbers show the United States is far wealthier and has far more power that any other country that existed. That the Mongols or the Persians or the Egyptians or the Hittites or the Assyrians or the Spanish rejected the blessings of Jesus’ Free Market Industrial Capitalism by insisting on reaching their peak before the concept was invented doesn’t cut water. Peoples need to take personal responsibility for their actions.

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

Re: McCain stands up for Freedom!

You know, as many as a third of the Mongols were Christians, and I mean real Christians, not Catholics. Perhaps they were the "lost tribe" of proto-Landover Baptists.

In fact the Mongols invented the suburban Automobile society.

Mongol children learned to ride before they could walk. In fact no Mongol would ever walk more than a few steps: they would always ride. Their policy of destroying farms and irrigation to spread the steppes, for better horse terrain, is basically the first interstate highway system. They cared more for their horses than any humans.

Their diet was almost 100% meat and beer (made from milk, because they figured only pansies ate grain.) They were all armed with the finest projectile weapons around, and were the first army to make see the usefulness of gunpowder. They were the proto-NRA.

So it's no wonder God blessed them, for a while. They were one-third correct. God will never stop blessing us, because we don't follow 33% of the Bible, but 100%.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: McCain stands up for Freedom!

In fact, if:
1. everyone can read the Bible and come up with the same interpretation
2. pastors are not intermediaries between man and God
why do Churches exist?

Because Jesus told us to build churches. Churches are for praising God, and Pastors lead in the praise, amen!

Are you some kind of atheist who thinks churches don't serve any useful purpose, and by occupying valuable real estate in crowded downtown areas, are depriving municipalities of a lucrative source of property tax revenue, placing a disproportionate share of the burden on other businesses and on residents?

You disgust me!

Pastor billy-Reuben

[raylu]

Re: McCain stands up for Freedom!

Some were, the population of Iran never from the Mongol conquest.

The population of what? I thought you believed that Iran doesn't exist.

The Mongols deliberately depopulated who regions so they could expand their lifestyle. Now what do you think that did to the Mongol's GDP?

Less people does not imply lesser GDP.

Additionally their failed attempts to conquer Japan show their military power, while impressive in a specific context was rather limited in projecting power.

This conclusion is simply bogus. They succeeded in numerous conquests and you give an example of one failure; how can you possibly conclude that their military was not powerful?

Anyway as a Christian I reject your whole humanist post-modern relativist argument; raw numbers show the United States is far wealthier and has far more power that any other country that existed.

Again, those raw numbers are not comparable to the numbers (which, by the way, don't really exist) for empires of the past.

That the Mongols or the Persians or the Egyptians or the Hittites or the Assyrians or the Spanish rejected the blessings of Jesus’ Free Market Industrial Capitalism by insisting on reaching their peak before the concept was invented doesn’t cut water.

Refuting an argument by saying it "doesn't cut water" doesn't cut water. That's the equivalent of merely saying "you're wrong."

Because Jesus told us to build churches. Churches are for praising God, and Pastors lead in the praise, amen!

Are you some kind of atheist who thinks churches don't serve any useful purpose, and by occupying valuable real estate in crowded downtown areas, are depriving municipalities of a lucrative source of property tax revenue, placing a disproportionate share of the burden on other businesses and on residents?

You disgust me!

No, I show that you are wrong through contradiction. Obviously, churches are something we should have. Since the conclusion (churches are bad) is a direct, inevitable result from the assumptions (my 1 and 2), we are forced to conclude that one of the assumptions is wrong. I do not advocate tearing down churches; I am arguing against either or both 1 and 2.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: McCain stands up for Freedom!

Since the conclusion (churches are bad) is a direct, inevitable result from the assumptions (my 1 and 2), we are forced to conclude that one of the assumptions is wrong. I do not advocate tearing down churches; I am arguing against either or both 1 and 2.

The only thing you have proved is that you don't know what churches are for, probably because you have never set foot inside of a Bible-believing fundamentalist Baptist church in your whole life.

Do they not teach basic logic skills at that university of yours?

Your argument was that if churches aren't for 1 and 2, then they have no purpose at all. You made the assumption that 1 and 2 are the only possible uses for a church. That was your error. Churches serve many functions.

We have an easy to read, 100% accurate Bible, called the King James version. We don't need any human intermediaries to tell us what the words say.

Friend, why don't you cite me some scripture that states that pastors or priests are to serve as intermediaries between God and man.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[raylu]

Re: McCain stands up for Freedom!

Your argument was that if churches aren't for 1 and 2, then they have no purpose at all. You made the assumption that 1 and 2 are the only possible uses for a church. That was your error. Churches serve many functions.

Congratulations; this is the correct response. Thank you for restating my logic - correctly.
However, you didn't make this argument last time,

Because Jesus told us to build churches. Churches are for praising God, and Pastors lead in the praise, amen!

Are you some kind of atheist who thinks churches don't serve any useful purpose...

which was the reasoning of my last post.

So, what do churches do?

We have an easy to read, 100% accurate Bible, called the King James version. We don't need any human intermediaries to tell us what the words say.

Restating your argument doesn't make it any stronger. As I have already said, words do not carry inherent meaning and must be interpreted to extract ideas/concepts/meanings out of them.

Friend, why don't you cite me some scripture that states that pastors or priests are to serve as intermediaries between God and man.

The underlined doesn't agree with my beliefs and I'd rather not go off-topic now.

[Brother Temperance]

Re: McCain stands up for Freedom!

It makes no sense to measure the power of the Mongols by current standards. For their time, they were the most successful and it is only meaningful to compare them to others of their time. After all, the original statement that I am refuting was:
We are the most powerful and wealthiest country ever to exist in human history.

Yes, and that's why it's meaningful to compare us to the Mongols. If we stated "we are the most powerful and wealthiest country ever to exist in the 21st century", then a comparison would be irrelevant; but you are the one claiming that there has been a country wealthier and more powerful than the US, so the onus is on you to prove that said country exists or has existed at some point.

So, about semantics games...
At least my semantics were relevant. Equating Mongols to people with Down Syndrome is wrong, in the simplest sense of the word. The term "mongoloid" came far after the decline of the empire; the concept of Down Syndrome would have been totally new to people of the time.

I don't want to hear about your semen antics. Are you seriously claiming that no-one in Genghis Khan's time was born with an extra chromosome? If you are, would you please like to tell us when exactly it was that people started being born as mongoloids?