[piercegraham]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

You speak of "arguments you have rebuted again and again." All you have done is say "that's wrong" yet presented no proof. All you have is a book. There is no proof that The Bible is right. Darwinists, however, have thousands of fossils to prove their points.
And, why did monkeys not evolve with us, you ask? A fair question. Simple: They branched off from us millions of years ago. They are a different species from us.
Before you come bashing me, allow me to say something: Does Darwinism explain everything? NNNNOOOOOO. It does not. There are flaws, I agree. THere are missing facts. The same goes for the Bible. Are either perfect? No. Both have flaws.

[Father O'Malley]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

Maybe plagiarized it off of the good Pastor, eh? Ever think about that?

We'll see. I emailed the original author, E.L. Bynum to get his thoughts on the matter.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

You speak of "arguments you have rebuted again and again." All you have done is say "that's wrong" yet presented no proof. All you have is a book. There is no proof that The Bible is right. Darwinists, however, have thousands of fossils to prove their points.

All made in factory in China. Kind of convent that every fossil found fits their theory flawlessly? The evidence is controversial to say the lest.

And, why did monkeys not evolve with us, you ask? A fair question. Simple: They branched off from us millions of years ago. They are a different species from us.

I see, so what happened to all them magical land fish like the Tiktaaliks? They collectively committed suicide from post natal depression after giving birth to the little monkeys?

Before you come bashing me, allow me to say something: Does Darwinism explain everything? NNNNOOOOOO. It does not. There are flaws, I agree. THere are missing facts. The same goes for the Bible. Are either perfect? No. Both have flaws.

The Bible explains it all; God did it. End of discussion.

Checkmate sinner.

[piercegraham]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

Your argument is flawed. "God says so" is like me saying "I said so."
and your fish you were talking about died out. Just like all species do. In a few million years, Man will become extinct, too.
Also, i have a serious question. I am NOT insulting anyone.
If God created us, who created God? Things dont simply "spring into being". Which is why I am against the Big Bang Theory.

[Nobar King]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

Your argument is flawed. "God says so" is like me saying "I said so."

I don't see anyone falling for that line.

and your fish you were talking about died out. Just like all species do. In a few million years, Man will become extinct, too.

You have proof of that? Or are you claiming to be clairvoyant?

Also, i have a serious question. I am NOT insulting anyone. If God created us, who created God? Things dont simply "spring into being". Which is why I am against the Big Bang Theory.

God has always existed. Just because your puny mind cannot comprehend that doesn't make it untrue.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

Your argument is flawed. "God says so" is like me saying "I said so."
and your fish you were talking about died out. Just like all species do. In a few million years, Man will become extinct, too.
Also, i have a serious question. I am NOT insulting anyone.
If God created us, who created God? Things dont simply "spring into being". Which is why I am against the Big Bang Theory.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c039.html

A number of skeptics ask this question. But God by definition is the uncreated creator of the universe, so the question Who created God? is illogical, just like To whom is the bachelor married?
So a more sophisticated questioner might ask: If the universe needs a cause, then why doesn't God need a cause? And if God doesn't need a cause, why should the universe need a cause? In reply, Christians should use the following reasoning:

1. Everything which has a beginning has a cause.1
2. The universe has a beginning.
3. Therefore the universe has a cause.

Its important to stress the words in bold type. The universe requires a cause because it had a beginning, as will be shown below. God, unlike the universe, had no beginning, so doesn't need a cause. In addition, Einstein's general relativity, which has much experimental support, shows that time is linked to matter and space. So time itself would have begun along with matter and space.

Since God, by definition, is the creator of the whole universe, he is the creator of time. Therefore He is not limited by the time dimension He created, so has no beginning in time God is the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15). Therefore He doesn't have a cause.
In contrast, there is good evidence that the universe had a beginning. This can be shown from the Laws of Thermodynamics, the most fundamental laws of the physical sciences.

• 1st Law: The total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant.
• 2nd Law: The amount of energy available for work is running out, or entropy is increasing to a maximum.

If the total amount of mass-energy is limited, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted all usable energy the heat death of the universe. For example, all radioactive atoms would have decayed, every part of the universe would be the same temperature, and no further work would be possible.
So the obvious corollary is that the universe began a finite time ago with a lot of usable energy, and is now running down.

Now, what if the questioner accepts that the universe had a beginning, but not that it needs a cause? But it is self-evident that things that begin have a cause no-one really denies it in his heart. All science and history would collapse if this law of cause and effect were denied. So would all law enforcement, if the police didn't think they needed to find a cause for a stabbed body or a burgled house.
Also, the universe cannot be self-caused nothing can create itself, because that would mean that it existed before it came into existence, which is a logical absurdity.
IN SUMMARY

• The universe (including time itself) can be shown to have had a beginning.
• It is unreasonable to believe something could begin to exist without a cause.
• The universe therefore requires a cause, just as Genesis 1:1 and Romans 1:20 teach.
• God, as creator of time, is outside of time. Since therefore He has no beginning in time, He has always existed, so doesn't need a cause.

OBJECTIONS

There are only two ways to refute an argument:

1. Show that it is logically invalid
2. Show that at least one of the premises is false.

Is the argument valid?

A valid argument is one where it is impossible for the premises to be true and the conclusion false. Note that validity does not depend on the truth of the premises, but on the form of the argument. The argument in this article is valid; it is of the same form as: All whales have backbones; Moby Dick is a whale; therefore Moby Dick has a backbone. So the only hope for the skeptic is to dispute one or both of the premises.

Are the premises true?

1. Does the universe have a beginning?

Oscillating universe ideas were popularized by atheists like the late Carl Sagan and Isaac Asimov solely to avoid the notion of a beginning, with its implications of a Creator. But as shown above, the Laws of Thermodynamics undercut that argument. Even an oscillating universe cannot overcome those laws. Each one of the hypothetical cycles would exhaust more and more usable energy.
This means every cycle would be larger and longer than the previous one, so looking back in time there would be smaller and smaller cycles. So the multicycle model could have an infinite future, but can only have a finite past.2
Also, there are many lines of evidence showing that there is far too little mass for gravity to stop expansion and allow cycling in the first place, i.e., the universe is open.
According to the best estimates (even granting old-earth assumptions), the universe still has only about half the mass needed for re-contraction. This includes the combined total of both luminous matter and non-luminous matter (found in galactic halos), as well as any possible contribution of neutrinos to total mass.3
Some recent evidence for an open universe comes from the number of light-bending gravitational lenses in the sky.4 Also, analysis of Type Ia supernovae shows that the universes expansion rate is not slowing enough for a closed universe.5,6 It seems there is only 40-80% of the required matter to cause a big crunch.
Incidentally, this low mass is also a major problem for the currently fashionable inflationary version of the big bang theory, as this predicts a mass density just on the threshold of collapse a flat universe.
Finally, no known mechanism would allow a bounce back after a hypothetical big crunch.7
As the late Professor Beatrice Tinsley of Yale explained, even though the mathematics say that the universe oscillates, There is no known physical mechanism to reverse a catastrophic big crunch.
Off the paper and into the real world of physics, those models start from the Big Bang, expand, collapse, and that's the end.8

2. Denial of cause and effect

Some physicists assert that quantum mechanics violates this cause/effect principle and can produce something from nothing. For instance, Paul Davies writes:

spacetime could appear out of nothingness as a result of a quantum transition. Particles can appear out of nowhere without specific causation Yet the world of quantum mechanics routinely produces something out of nothing.9

But this is a gross misapplication of quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics never produces something out of nothing. Davies himself admitted on the previous page that his scenario should not be taken too seriously.
Theories that the universe is a quantum fluctuation must presuppose that there was something to fluctuate their quantum vacuum is a lot of matter-antimatter potential not nothing.
Also, I have plenty of theoretical and practical experience at quantum mechanics (QM) from my doctoral thesis work. For example, Raman spectroscopy is a QM phenomenon, but from the wavenumber and intensity of the spectral bands, we can work out the masses of the atoms and force constants of the bonds causing the bands. To help the atheist position that the universe came into existence without a cause, one would need to find Raman bands appearing without being caused by transitions in vibrational quantum states, or alpha particles appearing without pre-existing nuclei, etc.
If QM was as acausal as some people think, then we should not assume that these phenomena have a cause. Then I may as well burn my Ph.D. thesis, and all the spectroscopy journals should quit, as should any nuclear physics research.
Also, if there is no cause, there is no explanation why this particular universe appeared at a particular time, nor why it was a universe and not, say, a banana or cat which appeared. This universe can't have any properties to explain its preferential coming into existence, because it wouldn't have any properties until it actually came into existence.

Is creation by God rational?


A last desperate tactic by skeptics to avoid a theistic conclusion is to assert that creation in time is incoherent. Davies correctly points out that since time itself began with the beginning of the universe, it is meaningless to talk about what happened before the universe began. But he claims that causes must precede their effects. So if nothing happened before the universe began, then (according to Davies) it is meaningless to discuss the cause of the universes beginning.
But the philosopher (and New Testament scholar) William Lane Craig, in a useful critique of Davies,10 pointed out that Davies is deficient in philosophical knowledge. Philosophers have long discussed the notion of simultaneous causation. Immanuel Kant (17241804) gave the example of a weight resting on a cushion simultaneously causing a depression in it. Craig says:

The first moment of time is the moment of God's creative act and of creation's simultaneous coming to be.

Some skeptics claim that all this analysis is tentative, because that is the nature of science. So this cant be used to prove creation by God. Of course, skeptics can't have it both ways: saying that the Bible is wrong because science has proved it so, but if science appears consistent with the Bible, then well, science is tentative anyway.
A final thought
The Bible informs us that time is a dimension that God created, into which man was subjected. It even tells us that one day time will no longer exist. That will be called “eternity.” God Himself dwells outside of the dimension He created (2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2). He dwells in eternity and is not subject to time. God spoke history before it came into being. He can move through time as a man flips through a history book.
Because we live in the dimension of time, it is impossible for us to fully understand anything that does not have a beginning and an end. Simply accept that fact, and believe the concept of God's eternal nature the same way you believe the concept of space having no beginning and end—by faith—even though such thoughts put a strain on our distinctly insufficient cerebrum.

Paul S. Taylor, adapted from author Ray Comfort

Further Reading

More information can be found in the following works. Unfortunately they are too friendly towards the unscriptural big bang theory with its billions of years of death, suffering and disease before Adams sin. But the above arguments are perfectly consistent with a recent creation in six consecutive normal days, as taught by Scripture.

1. Craig, W.L., Apologetics: An Introduction (Chicago: Moody, 1984).
2. Craig, W.L. online article “The Existence of God and the Beginning of the Universe” http://www.leaderu.com/truth/3truth11.html
3. Geisler, N.L., Christian Apologetics (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker, 1976).

References and Notes

1. Actually, the word cause has several different meanings in philosophy. But in this article, I am referring to the efficient cause, the chief agent causing something to be made. Return to text
2. Novikov, I.D. and Zeldovich, Ya. B., “Physical Processes Near Cosmological Singularities”, Annual Review of Astronomy and Astrophysics, 11:401-2 (1973). Return to text
3. Schramm, D.N. and Steigman, G., “Relic Neutrinos and the Density of the Universe,” Astrophysical Journal, 243:1-7 (1981). Return to text
4. Watson, A., “Clusters point to Never Ending Universe,” Science, 278 (5342):1402 (1997). Return to text
5. Perlmutter, S. et al., “Discovery of a supernova explosion at half the age of the universe,” Nature, 391(6662):51 (1998). Perspective by Branch, D. Destiny and destiny. Same issue, pp. 23-24. Return to text
6. Glanz, J., “New light on the fate of the universe,” Science, 278 (5339):799-800. Return to text
7. Guth, A.H. and Sher, M., “The Impossibility of a Bouncing Universe,” Nature, 302:505-507 (1983). Return to text
8. Tinsley, B., “From Big Bang to Eternity?”, Natural History Magazine (October 1975), pp. 102-5. Cited in Craig, W.L., Apologetics: An Introduction (Chicago: Moody, 1984), p. 61. Return to text
9. Davies, P., God and the New Physics (Simon & Schuster, 1983), p. 215. Return to text
10. Craig, W.L., “God, Creation and Mr. Davies,” Brit. J. Phil. Sci. 37:163-175 (1986). Return to text

Author: Jonathan Sarfati, Creation Ministries International. First published in: Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal 12(1):20-22, 1998.
Copyright © 1998, 2003, Creation Ministries International, All Rights Reserved - except as noted on attached “Usage and Copyright” page that grants ChristianAnswers.Net users generous rights for putting this page to work in their homes, personal witnessing, churches and schools. Illustrations and layout copyright, 2003, Eden Communications
Recommended Reading

• How can we know there's a God? If God made everything, who made God? Answer
• 44 Questions for the Not-Yet-a-Believer
• Where did life come from? Is evolution really the best scientific answer? Answer
• How do you explain the high degree of design and order in the universe? Learn more about the universe / origin of life / origin of species / origin of mankind
• Is Jesus Christ the answer?

I expect an apology for your retarded statements.

[mybrainhollow]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

Reason No. 1 - The Holy Bible!

Atheists 'claim' that God doesn't exist, yet the Bible proves them WRONG! I can see the Bible, hold it in my hand, and know 1000% that it exists! As God wrote the Bible, this proves that he MUST EXIST too! How dumb these Atheists are!

You don't know the bible was written by a super-natural being you like to call "god" because first of all, it wasn't, the bible is a boring fairytale written by lots of different people, and second; nobody has ever come in contact with a being such as "god".

Reason No. 3 - The 'Big Bang'

Atheists believe there was a 'Big Bang' which created the Earth and the Universe and all things?? Well, what created the 'Big Bang'?? And what was there before it 'banged'??? Ask ANY atheist - they won't be able to answer you! Why? Because God created the 'Big Bang'! And then went on to create the Earth and everything in just 6 days! Praise Jesus!

How was god created, oh smartass?


Yeah I know this is just a trolling website and I want to get trolled.

Anyway, some of your smileys are pretty funny

LOL WUT?

[mybrainhollow]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

Oops, didn't notice the poster above me.

Not everything is supposed to have a beginning, that is true, but it still does not prove that this supernatural being that keeps order in the universe does exist.
Therefore your post is too long and shall not be read.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

You don't know the bible was written by a super-natural being you like to call "god" because first of all, it wasn't, the bible is a boring fairytale written by lots of different people, and second; nobody has ever come in contact with a being such as "god".

Friend,

I am opened minded on this issue. I go by evidence and not opinion. Please present scripture that proves your position that The Bible was written by men.

[Nobar King]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

You don't know the bible was written by a super-natural being you like to call "god" because first of all, it wasn't, the bible is a boring fairytale written by lots of different people, and second; nobody has ever come in contact with a being such as "god". How was god created, oh smartass?

Yeah I know this is just a trolling website and I want to get trolled.
Anyway, some of your smileys are pretty funny LOL WUT?

Oops, didn't notice the poster above me.

Not everything is supposed to have a beginning, that is true, but it still does not prove that this supernatural being that keeps order in the universe does exist.
Therefore your post is too long and shall not be read.

Are you talking to yourself? That's a sure sign of possession.

[mybrainhollow]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible

[Nobar King]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

http:/simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible

BaneShallow. That sounds better. I like it.

[Bob4God]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

I can assure you the Bible is 110% true. I live my life by every word written in the Holy Bible and I'm utterly happy! If there was no GOD, I would be miserable, would I not? There's your proof.

[mybrainhollow]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

BaneShallow. That sounds better. I like it.

Really? Feel free to use it for yourself!

[James Hutchins]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

What a brilliant stroke! We are deeply honored by BaneShallow's presence. Wikipedia, the one source of information that is undeniably accurate, created by the finest scholars in the world. Just brilliant! Well, that settles it then. Let's close up shop, sell the churches.