Agnosticism Is bad?

[Interesting Faith]

I can already tell where this thread will end up, but I may as well try.

I have a good friend who used to be a pastor, his name I Jerry Weathorford, and we had an interesting conversation the other day. See, I'm agnostic, I believe in a higher power, a god if you wish to call it that, but I don't assume I know more than that. So I live my life as best I can, I try to do good things and strive to not do bad things, and I do this all without a church or holy text to guide me. But anyway, back to the story.

So me and Jerry are talking and we get on to the subject of religion. He says 'As long as you have faith in god, and accept Jesus Christ as your savior, you will be forgiven.'

I tell him, 'Well, I certainly believe in a god/higher power/supreme being, but I have trouble believing in a messiah or god having a son.'

He told me at that point that while I certainly was not a Christian, that as long as I accepted god, and lived a good life, I would be saved.

So I ask you this; In your opinion, am I still damned? I don't worship god, but I don't denounce him either. I believe there is a god but accept also that there might not be one. I don't go to church or idolize him (On that note, doesn't it say in the bible that got doesn't want any idols to him? How can so many people call them selves Christians when they openly erect churches, crosses, and well, idols?), and I am always open to new religion and cultures. Although I don't practice them either, I believe that if there is a god, and I think there is, then we are all praying to the same one anyway.

I hope I don't receive the intolerance and hate I've seen all over this forum. I was raised believing that the Christian faith was one of acceptance and understanding, and so on that basis, I'd like to open a dialog with you on the above subject, and hopefully proceed with it in a respectful manner.

Thank you for reading this.

[godsdrummer]

Re: Agnosticism Is bad?

God. Do you see the capital G in front of the od? That's how God is supposed to be spelled not "god". Which my the way hurt for me to type. Jesus, God, Bible, Christian. It's all to be capitalized. You might wanna fix that before a Godly Pastor gives you an infraction for not capitalizing words that ought to be.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Agnosticism Is bad?

I hope I don't receive the intolerance and hate I've seen all over this forum. I was raised believing that the Christian faith was one of acceptance and understanding, and so on that basis, I'd like to open a dialog with you on the above subject, and hopefully proceed with it in a respectful manner.

Thank you for reading this.

So you think waltzing into a Christian forum, disrespecting God by not capitalizing His name, accusing us of being hateful because we follow every word of the Holy Bible, and demanding that we tolerate your unsaved views is the best way to "open a dialog in a respectful manner?"

Can you show us where God commands us to "tolerate" those who reject Him. In fact, isn't that why Jesus spends so much time talking about hell and Judgment Day?

[Nobar King]

Re: Agnosticism Is bad?

This seems like a cry for help from someone who is lost in this world and needs a good Christian to show him The Way.

[Eugene Hackwith]

Re: Agnosticism Is bad?

It's wishy washy fence sitters like this who really get me going. Make up your mind already! Either accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, start reading the KJV cover to cover, or start painting pentagrams on your walls in satanic worship. You have to make the choice to either follow the Lord to eternal salvation, or lead yourself into eternal damnation. There is no maybe about it when it comes to the state of your soul.

[Interesting Faith]

Re: Agnosticism Is bad?

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I've always spelled God 'god'. If that offends you I will stop. But to stay on topic. I'm not a devil worshiper. I don't worship anything. I simply acknowledge God's existence. I'm not trying to make anyone angry or offend anyone, so sorry if I did.

I will not start reading the KJV front to back. I'm not willing to be a zealot. Is it so blasphemous to see Gods omnipotence, and accept, and try to live life? If you all are willing to criticize me I must pose a rebuttal. I don't go to church. I don't plan on starting. I believe that churches and religion, while fundamentally a good idea, has started more problems than it's fixed. I don't go to church because I am not a hypocrite.

Now, it'd be nice to see you guys stop nagging my typing and start addressing my point =p

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: Agnosticism Is bad?

I will not start reading the KJV front to back. I'm not willing to be a zealot.

What is so zealous about that?

[Interesting Faith]

Re: Agnosticism Is bad?

I guess you are right. Reading the text you have faith in isn't zealous.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Agnosticism Is bad?

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I've always spelled God 'god'. If that offends you I will stop. But to stay on topic. I'm not a devil worshiper. I don't worship anything. I simply acknowledge God's existence. I'm not trying to make anyone angry or offend anyone, so sorry if I did.

I will not start reading the KJV front to back. I'm not willing to be a zealot. Is it so blasphemous to see Gods omnipotence, and accept, and try to live life? If you all are willing to criticize me I must pose a rebuttal. I don't go to church. I don't plan on starting. I believe that churches and religion, while fundamentally a good idea, has started more problems than it's fixed. I don't go to church because I am not a hypocrite.

Now, it'd be nice to see you guys stop nagging my typing and start addressing my point =p

Whatever is not of Jesus is of satan. Questioning God's existence is carrying out satan's evil plan to destroy Christianity. The only problems in this world are due to the fact that so many choose to wallow in sin and perversion rather than worship Jesus. Don't blame Landover Baptist for all the misery in the world. God makes sinners miserable because He loves them!

You need to study (not just read) the Holy KJV 1611 Bible and get the Holy Spirit to guide you, friend. You lack discernment, that's why you don't understand God's Plan for our Salvation. It's not something that you just make up in your head. You need to GET ON FIRE FOR JESUS!

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Proverbs 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.

2 Peter 1:20: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Agnosticism Is bad?

[...] I simply acknowledge God's existence. [...]

This is all very well and good, however, "simply acknowledging God's existence" begs the questions, "What attributes does God have for a person like you?" (a question that Jesus will ask at Judgment Day) and "Can you believe partially in God or is it like being pregnant - you either are or you aren't?"

[Interesting Faith]

Re: Agnosticism Is bad?

I feel God in my everyday existence. I hope that answers your question. As for Pastor Ezekiel, thanks for your post. You have some good points there and prove you know your way around the bible more than some people who talk like they do.

I still have two questions that stand though.

1) Isn't it one of the Christian beliefs not to commit Idolatry? If so then what's with all the crosses, churches, paintings, statues, and well, Idols I'm always seeing dedicated to God and Jesus?

2) Does passively worshiping God in my own way really lead to Damnation? I don't denounce God or faith in Him, I just simply have a problem with churches and don't want to feel like a hypocrite in going to one.

[Capt. Aaron Portway]

Re: Agnosticism Is bad?

1) Isn't it one of the Christian beliefs not to commit Idolatry? If so then what's with all the crosses, churches, paintings, statues, and well, Idols I'm always seeing dedicated to God and Jesus?

You're thinking of Catlicks there friend. A typical Independent Baptist Church looks more like a Grange Hall than anything else. Steril, plain, and spartan. We have several nice ones in Freehold that are well above average of course, but they look nothing like those Art Museums the Catlickers call churches


2) Does passively worshiping God in my own way really lead to Damnation? [/QUOTE]

Yes.

[Dr. Ernest C. Ville, D.C.S.]

Re: Agnosticism Is bad?

I feel God in my everyday existence. I hope that answers your question.

Better double check over your shoulder that Father Mo isn't sneaking up behind you and copping a feel

As for Pastor Ezekiel, thanks for your post. You have some good points there and prove you know your way around the bible more than some people who talk like they do.

You'll never go wrong with listening to Pastor Zeke, my friend. The man knows his way around the Bible (all versions, from the King James 1611 Authorized Version to the King James 1611 Collectors Edition) But beware: if he suspects that you are backsliding from the Straight & Narrow(r), he administers a mean spanking (trust me, I know!)

1) Isn't it one of the Christian beliefs not to commit Idolatry? If so then what's with all the crosses, churches, paintings, statues, and well, Idols I'm always seeing dedicated to God and Jesus?

As the good Captain pointed out, you're likely thinking of Catholics. Those Mary-worshippers will dedicate their cats' droppings to their "god" if you let them! I saw a documentary once where a Catholic even "blessed" his golf clubs

2) Does passively worshiping God in my own way really lead to Damnation? I don't denounce God or faith in Him, I just simply have a problem with churches and don't want to feel like a hypocrite in going to one.

Part of the admonition from Christ is to fellowship with our brothers and sisters in Christ, and to shun those who are different from us and don't follow our same path (ie the right path). In fact, did you know that the word "fellowship" appears in the Bible more times than "rapture"?? That indicates just how important fellowship was to Jesus. Fellowship with other believers ensures that you don't fall into any traps, and allows fellow Christians to help you along the path of Righteousness. Without constant reproach and group-thinking, how else could one hope to avoid the traps such as "free thinking", "questioning" and whatnot. That's how someone catches a case of the atheism, which is one of the most deadly and hard-to-cure diseases right after AIDS and cancer.

[James Peter]

Re: Agnosticism Is bad?

Hello, I am a Catholic and I have to say all of you are very confused. Having faith in God does not save you. No. The Saving grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ is a very easy thing to achieve, and it is as follows:

1) Accept the Lord Jesus and your Personal Lord and Savior (this is where the Protestant stooges usually stop)
2) Get baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit by a Catholic Priest
3) Eat the body and blood of Christ after a Priest has transubstantiated it from bread and wine.
4) Do this every week, as well as reciting the same prayers and listen to some homilies and Bible readings once a week on Sundays, while making sure to stand up, sit down, and kneel on command.
5) Don't sin. Basically, obey everything from the official Catechism. If you do sin, tell a Priest about it so God can forgive you.
6) Have a priest call down the Holy Spirit to live in you.
7) Get married and have lots of children and bring them up in your beliefs, baptize them while they are still babies. Alternatively, you can become a leader within the church community by become a Priest. Or if you are just a woman, you can be a nun.
8) Praying to Jesus' mother while holding some beads also seems to help. Keeping paintings and statues of good dead Catholics in your home, car, and place of work can't hurt either.
9) Having some oil rubbed on you before you die also helps increase your chances.
10) Then, if you have died and have confessed all your mortal sins to a Priest, you might be saved. If you have even one unconfessed mortal sin though, you go straight to hell. If you have venial sins unconfessed, you will have to go to purgatory (temporary hell that lasts for however long God sees fit, possibly a few decades) before you get into heaven. If people on earth say prayers or contribute money to the church in your name, however, your time in purgatory can be greatly reduced.

See, it's so simple, why do you have such a problem keeping this up.

[Interesting Faith]

Re: Agnosticism Is bad?

Very good and informative answers to my questions, and I thank you for them. I have a few more points yet.

1) The Bible itself.
A) There are many different versions of the Bible, why do you follow the one you do, which I assume is the KJV, and what makes that more right than the others?
Now, I am not an avid Bible study, but, isn't almost the entire new testament written by either God's son, or his disciples? This is not one collated volume then. It is instead a series of works over the same idea. There wasn't even actually a Bible until the Romans converted and made one. Seeing as many of the texts they left out never made it in to the further edition, shouldn't true Christians be worshiping the 'full' works of Jesus, his disciples, and God, rather than the highly edited version that doesn't contain excluded verses?

2) The rest of the world. I understand that in your beliefs that not accepting following Christianity in your form means damnation. But what about the rest of the world? Are you just writing them off for damnation, even though they may of never had the chance to be Christian? Are you proactively trying to convert them to save their souls? If so, are you doing it harshly, or with the love and compassion modern Christianity is known for? (< Not saying it is right, that's just what most people think of when they think Christian)

3) Modern Science. Of course this had to come up. How do you explain evolution when it is easily proven and easy to understand? It's not like it isn't provable. So this is either Satan's greatest trick or something is terribly wrong here. Along with that, modern science. Do you view things like the LHC and other instruments that probe our very reality as bad or good?

I ask the above question for this reason. I see more of a Divine Plan following the path of evolution to man than reading Genesis. How could something as complex as man come from random breeding of animals over 100's of years? As for modern science. I believe things like the Large Hadron Collider and other experiments that probe the fabric of our reality as gifts from God. He's allowing us to see more of what surrounds him, and in my opinion, honor Him more by seeing the vast complicity with which our second to second lives are composed of. As I said before, I believe in a Supreme Being, but, I also believe in evolution. Does this make me even worse?