[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

You got one thing right - the free will is a paradox and a lot of Christian minds have been trying to grapple with it for the past two thousand years. Augustine is a good example.

The most logical explanation is that even though we have free will, God in His Infinite Wisdom already knows what choices we are going to make. Hence, He knew that serpent was going to tempt Eve, and he knew that Eve was going to succumb to this temptation.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. -> God says that, not me.
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? -> I won't say anything, I'll just let the Bible speak for me.
Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?-> God told Moses that He creates people with deformities. So next time you want to tell me that God doesn't give cancer to little kids, think of this, first.
Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? -> Again, I prefer to trust Bible rather than your opinion.

I'm just a mere woman, so please explain to me, how am I getting these verses wrong.

I still dont think he thought that they would have succumbed to temptation. I think that they messed up his plan for a sinless world. If they hadn't eaten from the tree the world would have been perfect as God has always wanted a sinless world but when they did eat from it God carried out his plan for salvation.


As for cancer I dong believe God did it. God might make other deformities but not cancer. Humans screwing up the earth became so unhealthy they developed it within themselves or Cancer was caused by a little hiccup in nature and I dont know what that is.


As for the rest I cant explain.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Oh boy.


Let's say famous author Stephen King decided to write another of his filthy Satanic books. He sits down at his computer and, before he can start typing, falls and breaks his hands. He still has an idea for a story, so he hires John Smith to type out his words for him. When he submits the story to his publisher, whose name should be listed as the author: Stephen King or John Smith?

Still the Bible was written by the prophets who God came to so they could record his words into the book. And the Torah was authored by Moses but God is credited for giving the message to the Jews (the original Jews/israelites not the corrupt ones in modern times)


So yes and no the bible and Torah contain Gods spoken message but he spoke to prophets who wrote them down for them

[Didymus Much]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

...Cancer was caused by a little hiccup in nature and I dont know what that is...

The Bible explains quite clearly just Who is responsible for every "little hiccup in nature".


You really should read it sometime. It's a hell of a book.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

The Bible explains quite clearly just Who is responsible for every "little hiccup in nature".


You really should read it sometime. It's a hell of a book.

I have read it

[Basilissa]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

I still dont think he thought that they would have succumbed to temptation. I think that they messed up his plan for a sinless world.

You believe in an inept God, who could not even figure out the 50-50 probability outcome of people disobeying Him? That's blasphemy!

Well, I prefer to believe in God who knows everything, and everything that happens is part of His plan. Even the primordial sin.

As for cancer I dong believe God did it. God might make other deformities but not cancer. Humans screwing up the earth became so unhealthy they developed it within themselves or Cancer was caused by a little hiccup in nature and I dont know what that is.

Again, I prefer to trust the Bible rather than your mad ramblings.

Still the Bible was written by the prophets who God came to so they could record his words into the book. And the Torah was authored by Moses but God is credited for giving the message to the Jews (the original Jews/israelites not the corrupt ones in modern times)

So yes and no the bible and Torah contain Gods spoken message but he spoke to prophets who wrote them down for them

First, don't say "Bible and the Torah" because your ignorance is showing - Torah is part of the Bible. So when you say "Bible" that includes "Torah."

Second, nobody said that God literally sat down and wrote. As it was pointed out to you, He dictated it, and the prophets wrote exactly what they heard. Hence, when prophet Isaiah cites God as saying:

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

That means God really said it and Isaiah wrote it down. These are God's Own Words. Yes, written down by a human, but they are God's Words.

Do you understand it now? God says that He created evil, and I trust Him more than I trust you.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

You believe in an inept God, who could not even figure out the 50-50 probability outcome of people disobeying Him? That's blasphemy!

Well, I prefer to believe in God who knows everything, and everything that happens is part of His plan. Even the primordial sin.

Again, I prefer to trust the Bible rather than your mad ramblings. First, don't say "Bible and the Torah" because your ignorance is showing - Torah is part of the Bible. So when you say "Bible" that includes "Torah."

Second, nobody said that God literally sat down and wrote. As it was pointed out to you, He dictated it, and the prophets wrote exactly what they heard. Hence, when prophet Isaiah cites God as saying:

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

That means God really said it and Isaiah wrote it down. These are God's Own Words. Yes, written down by a human, but they are God's Words.

Do you understand it now? God says that He created evil, and I trust Him more than I trust you.

I was trying to say that God told the prophets to write it but you all here told me no! Ugh!


He did not create evil je created a tree!

[Didymus Much]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

...He did not create evil je created a tree!

What kind of wussy god do you worship that shies away from creating a bit of evil here and there? Certainly not Yahweh, Elohim, Jealous or any of the others that the Bible retcons into "One" in the interest of a coherent backstory, a right rowdy bunch of serious shitdisturbers they were.

[Basilissa]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

I was trying to say that God told the prophets to write it but you all here told me no! Ugh!

He did not create evil je created a tree!

Then why did he say this:

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Are you implying that God lied to prophet Isaiah? Or that prophet Isaiah lied to us?

Either way, you are questioning the validity of the entire Bible. If God lied to Isaiah about creating evil, maybe He also lied to Moses about what happened in the Garden of Eden?

And if prophet Isaiah lied to us, maybe other writers of the Bible lied as well, including Moses and writers of the Gospels?

As you can see, your little temper tantrum has some very serious theological ramifications. Now please start behaving like an adult and admit that God did create evil.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

What kind of wussy god do you worship that shies away from creating a bit of evil here and there? Certainly not Yahweh, Elohim, Jealous or any of the others that the Bible retcons into "One" in the interest of a coherent backstory, a right rowdy bunch of serious shitdisturbers they were.

He created free will

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Then why did he say this:

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Are you implying that God lied to prophet Isaiah? Or that prophet Isaiah lied to us?

Either way, you are questioning the validity of the entire Bible. If God lied to Isaiah about creating evil, maybe He also lied to Moses about what happened in the Garden of Eden?

And if prophet Isaiah lied to us, maybe other writers of the Bible lied as well, including Moses and writers of the Gospels?

As you can see, your little temper tantrum has some very serious theological ramifications. Now please start behaving like an adult and admit that God did create evil.

He created a tree! A tree! And the first humans messed with it! When Isaiah 45:7 says he created evil he means the source of evil but not evil itself. Adam and Eve took from the source! The tree and ate from the fruit of that tree which was the fruit of knowledge henceforth leading to evil!

[Basilissa]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

He created a tree! A tree! And the first humans messed with it! When Isaiah 45:7 says he created evil he means the source of evil but not evil itself.

But this is not what that verse says. You are lying. You are twisting the Scripture to make it seem something different from what it actually is. That is a SIN, sweetie!

Adam and Eve took from the source! The tree and ate from the fruit of that tree which was the fruit of knowledge henceforth leading to evil!

No, the tree was not responsible for the existence of evil, it was only responsible for knowledge of evil.

Example: if there is a robbery in my town, and I didn't do it, but for some reason I know who did it, that doesn't make me guilty of robbery - only accessory to robbery if I do not report it to the authorities. The robber - the person who actually did the robbery - is the one guilty of it.

The same way, Adam and Eve, after eating from the tree, were guilty of knowing about evil. The act of eating the fruit did not create evil (duh - the serpent, which was created by God, was already there), Adam and Eve just learned about evil in that moment.

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

But this is not what that verse says. You are lying. You are twisting the Scripture to make it seem something different from what it actually is. That is a SIN, sweetie!

No, the tree was not responsible for the existence of evil, it was only responsible for knowledge of evil.

Example: if there is a robbery in my town, and I didn't do it, but for some reason I know who did it, that doesn't make me guilty of robbery - only accessory to robbery if I do not report it to the authorities. The robber - the person who actually did the robbery - is the one guilty of it.

The same way, Adam and Eve, after eating from the tree, were guilty of knowing about evil. The act of eating the fruit did not create evil (duh - the serpent, which was created by God, was already there), Adam and Eve just learned about evil in that moment.

I'm not twisting scripture also yes without that tree their would be no evil in the world because that's where knowledge of evil came from but that's NOT Gods fault

[Basilissa]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

I'm not twisting scripture also yes without that tree their would be no evil in the world because that's where knowledge of evil came from but that's NOT Gods fault

Like I already said, only the knowledge came from the tree. The evil itself was created by God! I already provided the Scripture that says so.

Why do you hate God so much that you want to see Him as a pathetic, inept, powerless being that has no control whatsoever over the world?

[Dennis Lukes]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

He did not create evil je created a tree!

He created the universe and everything in it, God-mocker. And if He didn't create evil, why does He explicitly say He created evil in Isaiah 45:7? You still haven't answered that one. Are you calling God a liar?

[OneFailure]

Re: It's not me torturing you, it's my inability to make a valid argument

Like I already said, only the knowledge came from the tree. The evil itself was created by God! I already provided the Scripture that says so.

Why do you hate God so much that you want to see Him as a pathetic, inept, powerless being that has no control whatsoever over the world?

Evil was not created by God. It wasnt created by him indirectly