[A sub Human]

Re: Okay seriously...

Well, I went for a Godly bit of exercise and that has cleared my brain.

You are right, the definition of evil is a red herring. If it is human behavior then God created humans with the capacity for evil behavior, and it is still God's creation. (Geez. I have made that point so often, how could I have forgotten?)

Likewise, Satan is a creation of God. (Otherwise: Satan created himself in defiance of God, and since God is omnipotent that is not possible.)

So, opinion about the veracity and accuracy of the Bible...

My goal is always, always to understand the true nature of Christianity. For that study I must take the Bible, the Christian holy book, as a root truth. Otherwise one is not studying the nature of Christianity but questioning its existential truthfulness.

Two very different studies.

I take the King James version because it is inspired. But the roots are the same in all versions.

The first act of God was creation, and the second act punishment of man -- expulsion from paradise and the infliction of ageing and mortality on man.

Ow. When my old and disreputable teeth are aching I sure regret that punishment.

The last act of God, prophesied in Revelations, is the punishment (quite horrible this time) of the unrighteous.

So: God's vindictiveness and vengeance is a theme which underpins all of the Christian Bible. Do you think, offhand, that this says something about the nature of Christianity and Christian behavior?

~~ OEJ

"My goal is always, always to understand the true nature of Christianity. For that study I must take the Bible, the Christian holy book, as a root truth. Otherwise one is not studying the nature of Christianity but questioning its existential truthfulness."

I disagree. To understand the Religion, yes, you need to study scripture, as it is the core of their beliefs. HOWEVER. You do not need to BELIEVE it is TRUE to understand it. I've studied scripture as well, and after a short period of time I had come to the conclusion that it was not accurate spiritually nor historically (OPINION). However, even after coming to that conclusion I continued to study it because of my quest for knowledge and understanding.

The Kings James Bible is revised, and has been altered, so I cannot in anyway take it seriously.

"So: God's vindictiveness and vengeance is a theme which underpins all of the Christian Bible. Do you think, offhand, that this says something about the nature of Christianity and Christian behavior?"

God depicted as a being who is vindictive? In my opinion, that totally contradicts many of the teachings. Giving God human qualities is quite ridiculous, because obviously God is a being we will never understand no matter what cult we belong to, which is why I chose not to pick a side.

No, in my opinion the Bible does not tell us all about Christian behavior actually. Because there are so many different forms. Catholicism is based on SOME of the Bible's fundamentals, however they've created their own traditions that aren't even mentioned in the Bible.

Forms of Protestantism like Lutheranism and Methodists base everything off of the Bible. Really, there's so many forms that you cannot just base them off the Bible, except for one religion. And that one religion is the Christians here who base all their knowledge off of the King James version.

I've observed that everyone here constantly quotes the verses, taking every bit of information 100 percent literally. Here's an example:

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=31248

God will make us eat our children? Really?

Honestly, that tells me that the nature of some of these Christians are extreme beyond belief, and it disgusts me.

Look at my rank it's "Unsaved Trash", that's the most immature and contradictory thing I've seen. When did Jesus teach that those who rejected him were "trash"? Isn't it taught that God loves and accepts all his creations? When did God become a ruthless and vindictive Lord? Oh, I know. When Christians started taking scripture literally, and started altering it. Example : The King James Bible.

The people here that are true to the popular belief on the forum are

Racists, Sexists, Bigots, Selfish, Ignorant, ..and the list can go on, but I chose to end it here.

This can't be serious.
No way would anyone have views this outrageous.
Plus there are some major inconsistencies coming from some of the more prominent members of the group.
This is ridiculous!

And if it's not, then I am bloody glad that I live in England!

You're looking at a right-wing conservative group of Americans.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Okay seriously...

"[…] I had come to the conclusion that it was not accurate spiritually nor historically (OPINION). However, even after coming to that conclusion I continued to study it because of my quest for knowledge and understanding.

So you went looking for mistakes made by God?

The Kings James Bible is revised, and has been altered, so I cannot in anyway take it seriously.

We are talking KJV1611 here. The Bible that is the true and timeless Word of God. This is the Bible produced by inspiration from God to correct all previous and to remain the only inerrant Bible.

"So: God's vindictiveness and vengeance is a theme which underpins all of the Christian Bible. Do you think, offhand, that this says something about the nature of Christianity and Christian behavior?"

Why else would he say it? You say that as if it is a bad thing, yet God gives us His Word – even if you do not accept it, it is there? What are we to do? Ignore His Word and still say we are Christian?

[…]obviously God is a being we will never understand no matter what cult we belong to, which is why I chose not to pick a side.

The I suggest there is no little futility in your studying the Bible – if you cannot understand how can you succeed?

No, in my opinion the Bible does not tell us all about Christian behavior actually.

As unsaved trash, your opinion is as chaff before the wind. There is no other source of knowledge of Christianity, your premise therefore would conclude in the impossibility of knowing what Christianity is!

Because there are so many different forms.

No. There is only one True Christianity™ all the others are false Christianity and their churches no more than social meeting places for sinners and heretics.

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=31248

God will make us eat our children? Really?

Honestly, that tells me that the nature of some of these Christians are extreme beyond belief, and it disgusts me.

Did you ever read of the siege of Masada? Whether it disgusts you or not, it is Godly advice. The theory, if you would only set aside your ridiculous emotional objections, is that the men must survive to carry the Word of God.

Look at my rank it's "Unsaved Trash", that's the most immature and contradictory thing I've seen.

The number of times we hear that! Look, your name does not appear on the membership role of the congregation of Landover. You are unsaved. You come here and now prove your ignorance, you deny Christ and expect to be seen as anything more than trash?

When did Jesus teach that those who rejected him were "trash"?

I think that your ignorance cannot become any greater and then you surprise me! Luke:19:27 and throughout Revelations is the obvious answer! Look also for his words to the Pharisees (Generation of vipers, etc)

Isn't it taught that God loves and accepts all his creations?

No, it certainly is not – you show me scripture for your damnable lies!

When did God become a ruthless and vindictive Lord? Oh, I know. When Christians started taking scripture literally, and started altering it. Example : The King James Bible.

Rhetorical question based upon nothing at all, conclusion drawn without evidence.

Sir, you have earned your title of Unsaved Trash!

You're looking at a right-wing conservative group of Americans.

You have not mistaken the image.

[Nobar King]

Re: Okay seriously...

I am bloody glad that I live in England!

Are you some kind of islamofascist terrorist? You approve of what's happening in England today?

[A sub Human]

Re: Okay seriously...

So you went looking for mistakes made by God?
We are talking KJV1611 here. The Bible that is the true and timeless Word of God. This is the Bible produced by inspiration from God to correct all previous and to remain the only inerrant Bible.

Never heard that one before. God inspired all scriptures in all religions, you are a fool to accept that blindly.

Why else would he say it? You say that as if it is a bad thing, yet God gives us His Word – even if you do not accept it, it is there? What are we to do? Ignore His Word and still say we are Christian?

"His word." Yet another opinion that you have come to accept without question.

The I suggest there is no little futility in your studying the Bible – if you cannot understand how can you succeed?

You need to convince yourself you understand, so that you can have a sense of order in your life. Truth is, you have no clue my friend.

As unsaved trash, your opinion is as chaff before the wind. There is no other source of knowledge of Christianity, your premise therefore would conclude in the impossibility of knowing what Christianity is!

Ah, following Jesus I see? All those who disagree will not be saved, and are labeled as trash. I am sure thats what Jesus taught right? Reject all those who have different views? Its not like you should "forgive" them, right?

No. There is only one True Christianity™ all the others are false Christianity and their churches no more than social meeting places for sinners and heretics.

Once again, displaying your idiocy and ignorance. Every other human in this world that disagrees with your very small faction of right-wing Christians are evil.

Did you ever read of the siege of Masada? Whether it disgusts you or not, it is Godly advice. The theory, if you would only set aside your ridiculous emotional objections, is that the men must survive to carry the Word of God.

Yes, yes I have. And I do not take the verses literally like you all do. Instead I search for the symbolism and true meaning of what it is presenting. Obviously the whole "God will make you eat your children" is false and ridiculous. I was only using it as an example to prove how the person who posted it takes it LITERAL, and doesnt search for the core message.

The number of times we hear that! Look, your name does not appear on the membership role of the congregation of Landover. You are unsaved. You come here and now prove your ignorance, you deny Christ and expect to be seen as anything more than trash?

Yes, the other billions of humans on this planet will burn because they do not belong to the congregation of Landover.

I think that your ignorance cannot become any greater and then you surprise me! Luke:19:27 and throughout Revelations is the obvious answer! Look also for his words to the Pharisees (Generation of vipers, etc)
No, it certainly is not – you show me scripture for your damnable lies!

Rhetorical question based upon nothing at all, conclusion drawn without evidence.

Just like your beliefs. Conclusions drawn without evidence. The only way you back up your fundamentals is with your King James bible, and convincing yourself that all other teachings are false except for it.

Sir, you have earned your title of Unsaved Trash!

Maybe in your eyes sir, just like the other billions of human beings that you chose to reject blindly. You my friend, have earned the title of
Ignorant Scum.

You have not mistaken the image.

-My responses are in purple.

[Nobar King]

Re: Okay seriously...

-My responses are in purple.

I made this video for rookies like you:

[WWJDnow]

Re: Okay seriously...

It's basically a cult of right-wing Caucasian Christians.

We are not a cult. And we have several ex-negroes in our congregation.

They hate all other races/religions that have different views than them. They take every verse out of scripture 100 percent literally, and condemn all to hell who don't.

That's a quick summary.

That's a good summary (except it's not us condemning sinners to Hell, that's Jesus) but how does it make us a cult?

This can't be serious.

We're very serious about what we believe.

Plus there are some major inconsistencies coming from some of the more prominent members of the group.
This is ridiculous!

There are more than 250,000 members of our church. We all believe in the Bible, but can you really expect every one of us to believe exactly the same thing on every topic? That's the kind of things that cults do, not Bible-believing Baptist churches.

And if it's not, then I am bloody glad that I live in England!

We have an extensive international ministry. It's much harder to win souls in England, because such a high percentage of Englishmen are sodomites, and because your next King is an inbred closet Muslim, but that's all the more reason for us to redouble our efforts. Thanks for the suggestion!

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Okay seriously...

Ah, following Jesus I see? All those who disagree will not be saved, and are labeled as trash. I am sure thats what Jesus taught right? Reject all those who have different views? Its not like you should "forgive" them, right?

Basically, yes:-

Lu:19:27: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Lu:19:28: And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.


Forgiveness is an overrated quality.

[WWJDnow]

Re: Okay seriously...

To understand the Religion, yes, you need to study scripture, as it is the core of their beliefs. HOWEVER. You do not need to BELIEVE it is TRUE to understand it.

You're wrong. If you're not supposed to be saved, God will trick you by planting false stories that only the faithful can see through. That way, you won't get saved when you're not someone that Jesus wants to save.

The Kings James Bible is revised, and has been altered, so I cannot in anyway take it seriously.

We use the 1611 version of the King James Bible. The New King James Bible is a tool of the Devil. Only the 1611 version is the One True Word of God®.

God's vindictiveness and vengeance is a theme which underpins all of the Christian Bible. Do you think, offhand, that this says something about the nature of Christianity and Christian behavior?

Yes, it does. GLORY!

God depicted as a being who is vindictive?

God sends sinners to Hell. That's about as vindictive as you can get.

In my opinion, that totally contradicts many of the teachings.

It contradicts none of the teachings. As God said in Isaiah 55:8-9:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Giving God human qualities is quite ridiculous, because obviously God is a being we will never understand no matter what cult we belong to, which is why I chose not to pick a side.

God tells us which "human" qualities he possesses. We don't just make it all up. For example, in Exodus 20:5-6, God told us:

I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

No, in my opinion the Bible does not tell us all about Christian behavior actually. Because there are so many different forms. Catholicism is based on SOME of the Bible's fundamentals, however they've created their own traditions that aren't even mentioned in the Bible.

Catholics ARE NOT CHRISTIANS. Don't try to pin their sins on us.

Forms of Protestantism like Lutheranism and Methodists base everything off of the Bible.

Methodists accept gays into their congregations when the Bible tells us that homosexuals are worthy of death. They're almost as bad as the Catholics. Lutherans also follow false dogma, so they're doomed to burn in Hell, too, but they come a lot closer to leading Biblical lives than the Catholics and Methodists do.

Really, there's so many forms that you cannot just base them off the Bible, except for one religion. And that one religion is the Christians here who base all their knowledge off of the King James version.

Hey, you finally got one right. There are some Pentacostalists and a few non-denominational evangelical congregations that teach the Word of God, too.

I've observed that everyone here constantly quotes the verses, taking every bit of information 100 percent literally. Here's an example.... God will make us eat our children? Really?

He's done it in the past, so I certainly can't rule it out. Who knows what moral depravities you sinners are capable of?

Honestly, that tells me that the nature of some of these Christians are extreme beyond belief, and it disgusts me.

People like you tell lies to children about God that doom them to eternal torment in Hell. That disgusts us.

Look at my rank it's "Unsaved Trash", that's the most immature and contradictory thing I've seen.

Your post pretty much proves that you are unsaved. And trash.

When did Jesus teach that those who rejected him were "trash"?

Jesus didn't use the word trash, but consider what He did say:

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Matthew 12:30

Besides, what happens to trash? It gets burned. That's what Jesus does to sinners, too.

Isn't it taught that God loves and accepts all his creations?

No. The Bible doesn't say that.

When did God become a ruthless and vindictive Lord?

It started when Adam and Eve ate of the fruit of the Tree of Life, in Genesis 3. That ticked God off so much that He kicked them out of paradise, made the husband to rule over the wife, caused childbirth to be painful, forced man to labor for his food among thorns and thistles, and made us all mortal.

Oh, I know. When Christians started taking scripture literally, and started altering it. Example : The King James Bible.

The 1611 version has not been altered, except to modernize the spelling. NOT ONE WORD HAS BEEN CHANGED. So please stop pulling this nonsense out of your ass and peddling it to people as fact.

The people here that are true to the popular belief on the forum are Racists, Sexists, Bigots, Selfish, Ignorant, ..and the list can go on, but I chose to end it here.

God made some races better than others, and made men superior to women. We're not selfish, we do the work of God. Why, just the other day my deacon came to me and suggested that I double my tithe to 20% of my pretax income, and I gave it gladly. So how is that selfish? You say we're ignorant, yet you're the one lying about the Bible, whereas we're the ones who've actually read it.

You're looking at a right-wing conservative group of Americans.

That testimony is true. PRAISE JESUS!

BTW, for future reference, I don't think there are any left-wing conservatives.

[A sub Human]

Re: Okay seriously...

You're wrong. If you're not supposed to be saved, God will trick you by planting false stories that only the faithful can see through. That way, you won't get saved when you're not someone that Jesus wants to save.

How convenient for you. Making up some random story of God trying to trick us. Just think about what you said.

We use the 1611 version of the King James Bible. The New King James Bible is a tool of the Devil. Only the 1611 version is the One True Word of God®.

Doesn't matter, both are revised.

God sends sinners to Hell. That's about as vindictive as you can get.

Yes, because a perfect loving being seeks revenge. Giving God a quality like that is absurd and actually could be viewed as blasphemy.

It contradicts none of the teachings. As God said in Isaiah 55:8-9:
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

God tells us which "human" qualities he possesses. We don't just make it all up. For example, in Exodus 20:5-6, God told us:

I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

That's if you believe the Bible is literal, which goes back to my statements on opinion. But you don't know how to think for yourself, so we'll leave it at that. Believing God has human qualities while he is perfect, omnipotent and omnipresent? Such absurdity and contradictory.

Catholics ARE NOT CHRISTIANS. Don't try to pin their sins on us.

They worship Christ, therefore they are Christians. And I also find it comical that you are calling a Religion sinful meanwhile they are the root of your own beliefs.

Methodists accept gays into their congregations when the Bible tells us that homosexuals are worthy of death. They're almost as bad as the Catholics. Lutherans also follow false dogma, so they're doomed to burn in Hell, too, but they come a lot closer to leading Biblical lives than the Catholics and Methodists do.

Because they aren't radical like you. They don't hate nearly as much as the Christians here.

He's done it in the past, so I certainly can't rule it out. Who knows what moral depravities you sinners are capable of?

You're not a sinner, you are perfect? If what I conclude from your statement is true, then you are indeed a blasphemer for putting yourself above the level of humans and saying you do not sin. All of us are imperfect, therefore we sin.

People like you tell lies to children about God that doom them to eternal torment in Hell. That disgusts us.

You have it in reverse.

Your post pretty much proves that you are unsaved. And trash.

Your post pretty much proves you are ignorant, and trash.

Jesus didn't use the word trash, but consider what He did say:

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Matthew 12:30

Besides, what happens to trash? It gets burned. That's what Jesus does to sinners, too.

Once again, you take it literally because that's what you were brainwashed to believe from a young age.

It started when Adam and Eve ate of the fruit of the Tree of Life, in Genesis 3. That ticked God off so much that He kicked them out of paradise, made the husband to rule over the wife, caused childbirth to be painful, forced man to labor for his food among thorns and thistles, and made us all mortal.

Yes because a being of infinite forgiveness and love can be "ticked off". How could Adam and Eve had made a mistake if they were created perfect? Sin came to be once they ate from the tree, so how could they commit a sin before sin even existed? And why did God create the snake and tree to tempt them in the first place?

I know the answers. Do you?

The 1611 version has not been altered, except to modernize the spelling. NOT ONE WORD HAS BEEN CHANGED. So please stop pulling this nonsense out of your ass and peddling it to people as fact.

If there are different versions how could it have not been changed? Show me a copy of the original scripture, and that will prove your opinion, oh, but you can't. I never said scripture was changed, I said it was likely.

God made some races better than others, and made men superior to women. We're not selfish, we do the work of God. Why, just the other day my deacon came to me and suggested that I double my tithe to 20% of my pretax income, and I gave it gladly. So how is that selfish? You say we're ignorant, yet you're the one lying about the Bible, whereas we're the ones who've actually read it.

1. Men superior to woman? HAH! HAHAAH! Funny, you've shown a lot about yourself right there.

2. Some races better than others? And I'm guessing you think Caucasians are at the top, meanwhile Jesus was middle-eastern and wasn't white. You're a funny little guy. I hope you realize your group of malicious white conservative hardcore Christians make up a very small fraction.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Okay seriously...

2. Some races better than others? And I'm guessing you think Caucasians are at the top, meanwhile Jesus was middle-eastern and wasn't white. You're a funny little guy. I hope you realize your group of malicious white conservative hardcore Christians make up a very small fraction.

Jesus is "without race" (His Father was God) and happens to be blue-eyed and fair haired - see almost any painting.

And yes, Jesus tells us that some races are better than others. One of His most famous parables was based upon the distinction in the races. Elsewhere Paul describes various races in 'frank' terms. Obviously this is Godly.

You really know nothing about Christianity, do you?

[One-eyed Jack]

Re: Okay seriously...

I see that the estimable Brother Bathfire and others have written well on many of the issues we touched on.

So just a short note on the nature of God: read Deuteronomy books 28 and 29. These detail some of the ways God promises to torment those who fall away from belief in Him. They include of course crop failure and famine, but also "a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning"; the sky overhead shall be as brass and the earth as iron. He promises to send enemies to besiege the backsliders, and the siege shall endure so long that parents will eat their own children.

One of the minor ironies in the Bible is that the Lord, who knows everything, hedges His bets on the kinds of sickness He will inflict: "Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee..."

Vengeful and vindictive? Yep, from Genesis to Revelations. It's a core value. That goes against many of the teachings, both of Christ and of conventional Christianity...?

That is exactly what I am saying. You have been duped. The real foundations of Christianity as a belief system are NOT what you think they are. The all-forgiving God and all-loving religion live only in propaganda and wishful thinking.

Here at Landover we understand the REAL foundations of the Christian faith. We recognize the propaganda for exactly what it is.

I have to go the inner sanctum and pray now, and then to labor for Caesar's coin. But read Deut 28-29, preferably the King James because it is beautiful, and maybe Jeremiah 19. Great poetry, and vengeful as the hissing sulfur of Hell itself.

~~ OEJ

[Vavoline Johnson]

Re: Okay seriously...

It's basically a cult of right-wing Caucasian Christians. They hate all other races/religions that have different views than them. They take every verse out of scripture 100 percent literally, and condemn all to hell who don't.

That's a quick summary.

There ain't no hate here and I be proof of dat. Seems to me you be twistin our view of things, not da other way around.

[lrbailey]

Re: Okay seriously...

Jesus is "without race" (His Father was God) and happens to be blue-eyed and fair haired - see almost any painting.

I wanted to keep out of this but really? What we see on the internet today was heavily influenced by the Romans and every other civilization that has been and was Christen, and it just so happens the majority were Caucasian. Also the earliest portrait of him came 270-300 years after his death, I wouldn't want to put money on it being the real deal.
If it says in the KJV that he was white and blue eyes then please post it.
Again look at the culture, it has had more of an impact than anything.
Just my take on it, I AM NOT MOCKING GOD or JESUS, nor am I WILLFULLY IGNORANT, I am requesting scripture.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Okay seriously...

I wanted to keep out of this but really? What we see on the internet today was heavily influenced by the Romans and every other civilization that has been and was Christen, and it just so happens the majority were Caucasian. Also the earliest portrait of him came 270-300 years after his death, I wouldn't want to put money on it being the real deal.
If it says in the KJV that he was white and blue eyes then please post it.
Again look at the culture, it has had more of an impact than anything.
Just my take on it, I AM NOT MOCKING GOD or JESUS, nor am I WILLFULLY IGNORANT, I am requesting scripture.

The actual appearance of Jesus is never recorded. The reason is that the joos and the Romans were looking for Him and the Disciples didn't want to give them clues.

Anyhoo, the Romans aren't really Caucasian, they're sort of swarthy, look at the Italians in the US; olive skin, black hair, moustaches, and that's just the women.

Also, God made Man like Himself and it's likely that Jesus looks like his Pa. Although no one has seen the True Visage of God (for it is simply too awesome) I think, Godly inspiration came upon the artists who drew Jesus.

[LIBERALISTHEWAY]

Re: Okay seriously...

SUBHUMAN YOU ARE MY HERO.

finally i know there is at least ONE sane person on this forum

people are ridiculous on here.

i'm getting "infractions" for "being willfully vexatious" and trying to debate on "Gods Favorite Forum"
by the way, who the hell said it was his favorite. you know what, i'm sick of ignorant people.

sorry for speaking my mind, it's exactly what you close-minded bastards are doing, and saying you're doing it in God's name is like bombing for peace.

do you people honestly think you're a "good Christian" posting all this hateful bullcrap? rather than homosexuals and goths going to hell, it's probably going to be you.

and you know what? i don't give a crap if i'm gonna get more infractions. you're taking away my rights for [deleted in the interests of security], and you all deserve a reality check. try looking outside your closed in walls and see what's actually going on.

ignorance is a sad, sad thing.