[iThink]

Re: Howdy partners

I of course did not mean to say that those two words meant the same thing! That would be silly as it would mean that Jesus was speaking in jibberish.

I direct your attention to Romans 10:4 "For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
Also, Galatians 3:23 and following, as well as Ephesians 2:15.

Where is my flaw? I want to see.

[True Disciple]

Re: Howdy partners

I of course did not mean to say that those two words meant the same thing! That would be silly as it would mean that Jesus was speaking in jibberish.

I direct your attention to Romans 10:4 "For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
Also, Galatians 3:23 and following, as well as Ephesians 2:15.

Where is my flaw? I want to see.

It still isn't clear to you?

First of all, using James 2:10, I have explained why you are guilty: you do not follow the Law ot some points, which means that it is as though you have broken every commandment. That is your flaw: not following the entire Bible.

But don't the other Passages you referred to teach something different? No, they don't.

Romans 10:4 teaches that accepting Christ as your Lord and Saviour is "the end of the Law." Why is this so? Simply:
1. Jesus took away our sins.
2. As a result of that, True Christians(tm) cannot sin (1 John 3:9).
3. As breaking the Law would be a sin, we therefore cannot break the Law.
4. As a result the Law is fulfilled (Romans 10:4).
5. We do not need it anymore as our schoolmaster, as we stick to it automatically (Galatians 3:25).
6. It is ultimately Jesus' sacrifice that brings us Salvation(tm) (Ephesians 2:15), as it fulfills the Law (Matthew 5:17).

Do you understand it now?

Great. Now please tell me which parts of the Bible you do believe, and why. I'm growing very curious about that.

[iThink]

Re: Howdy partners

Of course I cannot deny that I have broken a law, and neither can you, or anyone for that matter. That simply means that we cannot reach heaven under our own power. (Rom 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God") We as humans are born with a sin nature and therefore lack the perfection that we need to reach heaven.

That is what makes believing in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ so important don't you agree? The fact that he came to us in our sin, sacrificed Himself and absolved us of blame for eternity. Isn't it beautiful?

And as for those six points, they are so wonderfully close to being what I would consider correct! You see I think I know where we are differing now.
1 John 3:9 when looked at in the Greek (I'm assuming this is an acceptable version.) is written using the Greek Present tense as opposed to the Aorist tense. In the Aorist tense your perception of the verse would be correct. But when written in the Present tense there is no focus on instances of an event, but instead alludes to what we would call a "lifestyle". The significance of this is that it does not take into account deviation. An example of this, if you are driving down the road and someone asks how fast you are going, you may answer, "65". But in fact the next moment you may be traveling 64, and a minute later 66. However saying that you are traveling at 65 miles an hour is still a valid answer.

A much more literal (i remember you focusing on literal earlier) interpretation of the verse would go like this, "Whosoever is born of God doth not sin AS A LIFESTYLE; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin AS A LIFESTYLE, because he is born of God"

Other than that I would say you were nearly spot on, although I may take some issue with your interpretation on the fulfillment of the law.



And with that (as I'm assuming the banhammer will reach out and touch me 'ere long) I must say it has been a pleasurable experience having this discussion with you. And I think that the concept of this site is very....inspiring....well done.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Howdy partners

.............. I'm assuming the banhammer will reach out and touch me 'ere long

That is insulting! Why would we ban you? Because you beliefs on God are off kilter? Our responsibility to Jesus is to bring lost souls back into His flock. Brother True Disciple has been doing an outstanding job with you, showing the patience of a kindly grandfather mentoring a troubled two year old. We only ban trolls, those that post porn or use foul language, same as any other decent site.
I for one am very hurt by your comment and I think all members deserve your apology.

[Bible Student]

Re: Howdy partners

As for the Deuteronomy verse I was under the impression that this was a specific command given specifically to the Hebrew nation during that specific period of time. I was not aware that it also carried over to current day believers. Why is this the case?

Let us take a modern day example, the Bill of Rights. Do you think they were made with an expiration date?

Why should God succumb to man's illogic then when intelligent, lesser humans did not? Jesus already said that not one iota of the Law will pass away.

[iThink]

Re: Howdy partners

I apologize...but the fact of the matter is that I just now received a notification and as you can see am now on moderation. So I am sorry that I said that but my point was not completely invalid.

I do not wish to be banned because this is a fun exercise of my faith from which both parties can learn valuable lessons. So please, lets continue.

[Bible Student]

Re: Howdy partners

I of course did not mean to say that those two words meant the same thing! That would be silly as it would mean that Jesus was speaking in jibberish.

I direct your attention to Romans 10:4 "For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
Also, Galatians 3:23 and following, as well as Ephesians 2:15.

Where is my flaw? I want to see.

Your error is that you stopped at the law instead of the context of law for righteousness. And again look at the context of the law. A few verses above we find Paul is talking about righteousness. And did you forget the very important word, enmity, in Ephesians? That is what is abolished, not the law.

[iThink]

Re: Howdy partners

you see what i was saying?

[Levi Jones]

Re: Howdy partners

Of course I cannot deny that I have broken a law, and neither can you, or anyone for that matter. That simply means that we cannot reach heaven under our own power. (Rom 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God")

Amen! Now look later in that chapter.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Once saved. Always saved.

I assume you agree with Paul on predestination as well, yes? Only those who are called are saved. Everyone else goes to hell because God preordained it.

Also let's take a look at more of Romans 3. Paul is quoting the OT throughout here.

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Ps 14:1-3; 53:1-3
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Ps 5:9 Ps 140:3
14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Ps 10:7
15Their feet are swift to shed blood: Is 59:7
16Destruction and misery are in their ways: Ps 36:1

Surely you agree with David's imprecatory prayers where he asks God to kill his enemies for him.

I know I do!

[Levi Jones]

Re: Howdy partners

you see what i was saying?

Of course I do. Are you done telling lies now or should we keep it to where I approve your posts whenever I feel like it?

[iThink]

Re: Howdy partners

Am I unbanned now?

[Levi Jones]

Re: Howdy partners

Am I unbanned now?

You are not banned. You are on moderation. I will get around to approving your posts when I get around to it.

It's your lying tongue that got you into this mess in the first place. God hates that.

Proverbs 6:16-19 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Howdy partners

1 John 3:9 when looked at in the Greek (I'm assuming this is an acceptable version.) is written using the Greek Present tense as opposed to the Aorist tense. In the Aorist tense your perception of the verse would be correct. But when written in the Present tense there is no focus on instances of an event, but instead alludes to what we would call a "lifestyle". The significance of this is that it does not take into account deviation. An example of this, if you are driving down the road and someone asks how fast you are going, you may answer, "65". But in fact the next moment you may be traveling 64, and a minute later 66. However saying that you are traveling at 65 miles an hour is still a valid answer.

A much more literal (i remember you focusing on literal earlier) interpretation of the verse would go like this, "Whosoever is born of God doth not sin AS A LIFESTYLE; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin AS A LIFESTYLE, because he is born of God"

Other than that I would say you were nearly spot on, although I may take some issue with your interpretation on the fulfillment of the law.

From the above, I can only assume you believe one of the following:

• God is not all-knowing
• God is not all-powerful
• God does not want people to know Him and be Saved
• God does not exist

But why, you ask?

Since God is all-knowing, He must know exactly what the King James Bible says.

Since God is all-powerful, He must be able to instantly change every existing King James Bible to say whatever He desires.

There, we have established that God, as He has revealed Himself in the Bible, knows what the KJV says and can change it to say whatever He wishes at any time. Right? Right!

This means that it is not possible for the KJV to be "misinterpreted from the Greek", unless one of the two other conditions exists.

So, do you believe that God has knowingly allowed the KJV to be misinterpreted, so that Christians will be misled and spend eternity in His Lake of Fire?

Or do you believe God doesn't exist?

Is God malevolent, or nonexistent? Or is the KJV correct? One of the three must be true.

[Levi Jones]

Re: Howdy partners

I assume you agree with Paul on predestination as well, yes? Only those who are called are saved. Everyone else goes to hell because God preordained it.

What no response to this, Mr. Apologist?

If we are going to quote Paul, we need to believe all of it. Wouldn't you agree?

Romans 9 11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.)
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.(You remember where God hardens Pharoh's heart so he won't let Moses' people go, so He can kill the entire Egyptian army? Ex 9:16)
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

[Ruth Elizabeth]

Translation please

Brother Levi or Rev Rodimer, could you please tell me:
What is /b/?
What in the world is a proxy war?